The reason for the decline in forum membership - anyone?

[Bells]

rather well said and yes with areas that I could take issue with. There is nothing wrong with an eloquently stated opinion especially if it is on topic.. IMO
can i ask you and others [ including James R ]?

Would allowing moderators to move "off topic" posts [ not the thread ]. Rather than delete them move them to a "members only" forum for review, negotiation, voting and then either re-instatement or deletion be of use to sciforums?
A similar process was employed at a few forums I have attended and appears to work remarkably well as it does not offend the moved poster directly and allows the forum to decide whether the post was valid or not.
Including a member poll with every move can be automaticaly created and if the members vote to have that post reinstated then it can be. Members alone can not vote for deletion.
This process or a more refined one would be relatively easy to set up and remove most of the "value" angst posters have.
It also allows members to self educate and self govern their behaviour.
A note must be left in the thread that indicates where members can find the posts that are moved so they can vote on re-instatement or not.
Main Benefit:
Obviousy with this method deliberate off topic posting will eventually become entirely futile thus be reduced to those not familiar with the system.
cleans up the threads
Values all posters in some way.
and no doubt more....
edit: my apologies as I didn't read the entire thread before posting.. I see it is already suggested by Marquis [that makes 2 in favour]
For example: It means that overtly Homophobic posts can be moved "with out prejudice" to the posters esteem

Great idea in theory. However, such a voting method does not take into account the simple fact that people will vote to support their friends. In the past, Sciforums used to elect moderators, where people would vote for particular members if they put their hand up when a position became available. Wonderful in theory, but in practice, it was terrible. As those who were here during that time can probably attest, it nearly killed the forums and we lost numbers in droves.

As with any community, online or in real life, you get little cliques forming. And what can and will result in a system where people can vote in a poll is that this forum would be inundated with rubbish posts and threads, because all these little cliques will vote to keep it visible and prominent.

Marquis' idea is to delete the rubbish posts entirely, and give the thread a few days and if it degenerates again, delete the thing altogether or close and move it. Which is close to what we do now.

[Bells]

Do I have the right to express my view on homosexuality ?

Of course you do. However when your views turn into hate speech, then you are in breach of this site's rules. It really is quite simple.

Of course you probable been one , you don't like,

Been one, what?

You see, it helps if you make sense when you type.

About human rights , you have it I assume homosexual are human ,

Do I have human rights? Yes, I do. And you assumed correctly that homosexuals are humans.

do they need additional rights ?

What additional rights do you think we give homosexuals if we determine that hate speech is against this site's rules?

( You can either just stop or you can keep supplying yourself with more rope. Our options are simple. ) Who the hell are you ? are you part of the management ?

Why yes, yes I am.

I was going to swear but I will not you are not wordy .....................

I think I am wordy enough, in that I can usually type and communicate in a coherent manner.

[spidergoat]

People have been saying variations on this for the last 10 years on Sciforums... it's not as good as it was... why are there fewer members... the quality of posts has declined... moderation is bad...

I think it's just how you look at it, you have favorite topics and members, and they change, people come and go, it's all the same.

[Quantum Quack]

Great idea in theory. However, such a voting method does not take into account the simple fact that people will vote to support their friends. In the past, Sciforums used to elect moderators, where people would vote for particular members if they put their hand up when a position became available. Wonderful in theory, but in practice, it was terrible. As those who were here during that time can probably attest, it nearly killed the forums and we lost numbers in droves.

As with any community, online or in real life, you get little cliques forming. And what can and will result in a system where people can vote in a poll is that this forum would be inundated with rubbish posts and threads, because all these little cliques will vote to keep it visible and prominent.

Marquis' idea is to delete the rubbish posts entirely, and give the thread a few days and if it degenerates again, delete the thing altogether or close and move it. Which is close to what we do now.

Do you feel that if there was a forum for moved posts that moderators only anonymously voted on would generate a better poster behaviour generally? If a poster repeatedy had to have posts moved by a certain number they could then be subject to banning initially temporary and if persistant then permanently?
The point is that some posters hold their "off topic" posts as a right, as a venting mechanism, etc and moving there posts with out deletion means that you are taking their personal issues seriously
For example:
Aurauca has expressed a desire to force his opinion on others concerning Homosexuals etc. due to the presumption of "right and "wrong" which he may not be prepared or able to due to past harm and trust issues to rationalise adequately.
By moving his offending posts to another descrete forum and allowing it to wait for adjudication and negotiation and voting by moderators allows the heat of the moment to cool off.
He will then be less likely to entertain flaming the board later and still remain a valued member of sciforums for other issues that he may be able to contribute towards. Thus reducing demand on Moderators by minimising the creation of angst and allowing forum membership levels to be more reflective of the membership.


...just some thoughts

[James R]

Do I have the right to express my view on homosexuality ?

Why don't you go and read the Site Posting Guidelines?

They are posted as an Announcement at the top of every subforum.

In particular, please read the parts on hate speech.

And don't think you can get away with hate speech in the current thread, either. Be careful.

[RedStar]

arauca, friend, please move past this homophobia. When I was younger, I didn't really know what to think about it either, and I had a somewhat religious upbringing. But you know what? They're really just regular people like anybody else.

There are other people you need to direct your hatred against that are actually hurting others. Don't get worked up over people for their sexual preferences.

[Bells]

Do you feel that if there was a forum for moved posts that moderators only anonymously voted on would generate a better poster behaviour generally? If a poster repeatedy had to have posts moved by a certain number they could then be subject to banning initially temporary and if persistant then permanently?
The point is that some posters hold their "off topic" posts as a right, as a venting mechanism, etc and moving there posts with out deletion means that you are taking their personal issues seriously
For example:
Aurauca has expressed a desire to force his opinion on others concerning Homosexuals etc. due to the presumption of "right and "wrong" which he may not be prepared or able to due to past harm and trust issues to rationalise adequately.
By moving his offending posts to another descrete forum and allowing it to wait for adjudication and negotiation and voting by moderators allows the heat of the moment to cool off.
He will then be less likely to entertain flaming the board later and still remain a valued member of sciforums for other issues that he may be able to contribute towards. Thus reducing demand on Moderators by minimising the creation of angst.



...just some thoughts

No that's fine.

This is what this sub-forum is meant to be for.

One of the bigger gripes we have witnessed from the membership is that moderators conduct so much of the forum's business in secret. We do have a private sub-forum where we discuss issues about the forum, members, certain posts, threads.. It is the place we go to for advice about problem posts, threads, members and we bounce ideas off each other (more polite way of saying it is actually the place where we let rip if we need to). And at one point in this site's history, there was a big push to make this private sub-forum available for viewing only by a few members who would then act as go-between's between the member population and the staff.

It never came to fruition.

The current system we have in place is a bit more open than it used to be. Threads or posts that are moved if they are inappropriate or offensive are usually closed and/or moved to the Cesspool sub-forum, which is closed to the search engine as it effectively removes the post from the member's posting history and no longer counts towards their post number on this site. And usually if a thread has a lot of merit and there are some good posts, moderators can and sometimes will remove the bad or offensive posts by either soft-deleting them or removing them to the Cesspool in an attempt to save the thread. I am not sure if members have noticed, but just about all sub-forums have a closed sticky thread titled "Action Notes". Such post/thread movements or deletions can usually be found recorded there. Soft delete means that the post is still available and can be re-installed if there is some merit and yes, we have been known to soft delete posts and discuss amongst ourselves in the backroom before either leaving it deleted or reinstating it.

Arauca's complaint is that he is not allowed to use hate speech on this site and that this site's rules will result in moderation if he decides to go down that route. I can assure you, every single method of getting him to understand this is being exhausted by the staff and has been in the past, and the same applies to the moderation of his posts.

[RedStar]

This forum has pretty lax regulations compared to a leftist forum I occasionally post on. Over there, they will ban you if you remotely say anything good about right-wing ideology (fascist, capitalist, conservative, etc)

[Bells]

This forum has pretty lax regulations compared to a leftist forum I occasionally post on. Over there, they will ban you if you remotely say anything good about right-wing ideology (fascist, capitalist, conservative, etc)

If you need to silence one's political opposition entirely, then you are doing it wrong.

[RedStar]

If you need to silence one's political opposition entirely, then you are doing it wrong.

It's really a forum for leftists to talk with other leftists, so I'm not peeved that they ban opposition. It's not for general political discussion.

[arauca]

arauca, friend, please move past this homophobia. When I was younger, I didn't really know what to think about it either, and I had a somewhat religious upbringing. But you know what? They're really just regular people like anybody else.

There are other people you need to direct your hatred against that are actually hurting others. Don't get worked up over people for their sexual preferences.

I have a brother in law ,who is homosexual he lived in mi house for two years, now he is a priest, I am familiar with them a little, and more, with that kind of human . For me let them be in their corner and I in my corner , I will help them as to a human, but thy go beyond.
I don't hate them , just I don't like them impose on the society.

[RedStar]

I have a brother in law ,who is homosexual he lived in mi house for two years, now he is a priest, I am familiar with them a little, and more, with that kind of human . For me let them be in their corner and I in my corner , I will help them as to a human, but thy go beyond.
I don't hate them , just I don't like them impose on the society.

Don't even worry about it. Just view them as fellow workers.

Divide your world into workers and capitalists: capitalists are the enemy

[Chipz]

I don't know Chipz. Were you born to hate and be intolerant?

Or was it learned behaviour?

Who do I hate?

[arauca]

Why don't you go and read the Site Posting Guidelines?

They are posted as an Announcement at the top of every subforum.

In particular, please read the parts on hate speech.

And don't think you can get away with hate speech in the current thread, either. Be careful.

Sir if you consider this is hate speech, Then PLEASE BAN ME!!!!
" Unfortunately the meaning of wife it starts to loose its meaning once the homo gained it's rights "

[RedStar]

I think the way you said it might make it hate speech.

Say it like this, "The sanctity of marriage/wifedom loses its meaning if homosexuality/gay marriage is legalized"

That's something that you can say and argue if you want.

[Quantum Quack]

@Bells
I hope the following flow chart clarifies somewhat:

[arauca]

I think the way you said it might make it hate speech.

Say it like this, "The sanctity of marriage/wifedom loses its meaning if homosexuality/gay marriage is legalized"

That's something that you can say and argue if you want.

Tovarish puskai oni idut k chortovoy matiri

[Quantum Quack]

Tovarish puskai oni idut k chortovoy matiri

I understand that this suggestion may be a bit tedious for you but as you know this forum uses English as it's main communication tool.
I would suggest that you write yoru posts in your native tongue and provide a google or other English translation with it so that we can know that you are attempting to communicate from a foriegn language perspective.
BTW what language is that?

[RedStar]

Tovarish puskai oni idut k chortovoy matiri

Просто игнорируйте их

[arauca]

I understand that thsi masuggestion may be a bit tedious for you but as you know this forum uses English as it's main communication tool.
I would suggest that you write yoru posts in your native tongue and provide a google or other English translation with it so that we can know that you are attempting to communicate from a foriegn language perspective.
BTW what language is that?

my machine does not type in Cyrillic