She's Back!

[Grumpy]

Mrs.Lucysnow

Oh Grumpy, Grumpy, Grumpy say it ain't so. You don't know too many vets do you?

I am a Vietnam Vet, not many of my friends have survived, but I know quite a few. I am also in the VA system and I get good care at very low prices. My hip replacement in 2005 cost me ZERO dollars, my drugs cost 8 dollars a month, and while I do often have to spend more time than I like while waiting for my appointments, it gives me a chance to renew old friendships(we even synchronize our appointments for this reason, looks like a wheelchair parade). The Asheville VAMC needs more, closer parking but it's good care and much, much cheaper than any health insurance.

Please don't tell me you actually believe the VA is wonderful and loved. The VA is the WORST, WORST, most inefficient care those men and women are forced to accept. Its horrible and its HATED. And I do mean HATED. This I know for sure. If you want to totally hear a creeping demoralization enter the voice of a grown man just talk to one who has serious medical problems and has to deal with the VA. It'll break your heart.

I are one, and I do love it(well, in comparison to no healthcare at all, or healthcare that cost half my monthly disability payments(service related)). The main problem the VA has right now is the two wars we have been fighting combined with lack of support from our politicians for the massive increase in patients. It's getting better as we speak. Dealing with an insurance company that refuses to cover you is better in what way, exactly? Or one that dumps you if you get sick, or limits what they will pay for your lifetime? You'll get my VA care when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers, and then they can bury me in Arlington, also without co-pay. 8 years in the Brown Water Navy and a couple of body parts earned me these benefits.

What they have in Denmark is better than what the VA and Medicare has to offer. Much better. An inefficient system is not going to become more efficient simply because you give them more of a load to carry, its just throwing more good money after bad.

Yes, but try getting that "European Socialism" through our dysfunctional Congress. Until that happens and pigs fly, I'll be profoundly grateful for the VA, thank you very much. And if you want to see old people get mad, just mention taking away their Medicare, it's a lifesaver for them as the VA is to me. Compared to the alternative(no health insurance at all)it's great.

Grumpy

[iceaura]

In Japan it costs $150-$300 a month to get full health insurance. In a free-market it'd be even cheaper. Much cheaper.

According to Wiki, the Japanese system is almost fully government controlled, with fees set by government committee, care rationed by government edict, and 70% of the cost paid directly by the government - making a profit from medical care delivery is a prison crime.

Like all such systems, it's much cheaper than the US market based system.

Market competition in medical care raises total cost and curtails availability. Always has, always will, in the US and everywhere else.

Michelle Bachmann has government paid health care. She received government paid health care for her foster children for many years. She's a trained bookkeeper. She knows better than she talks.

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Mrs.Lucysnow



I am a Vietnam Vet, not many of my friends have survived, but I know quite a few. I am also in the VA system and I get good care at very low prices. My hip replacement in 2005 cost me ZERO dollars, my drugs cost 8 dollars a month, and while I do often have to spend more time than I like while waiting for my appointments, it gives me a chance to renew old friendships(we even synchronize our appointments for this reason, looks like a wheelchair parade). The Asheville VAMC needs more, closer parking but it's good care and much, much cheaper than any health insurance.



I are one, and I do love it(well, in comparison to no healthcare at all, or healthcare that cost half my monthly disability payments(service related)). The main problem the VA has right now is the two wars we have been fighting combined with lack of support from our politicians for the massive increase in patients. It's getting better as we speak. Dealing with an insurance company that refuses to cover you is better in what way, exactly? Or one that dumps you if you get sick, or limits what they will pay for your lifetime? You'll get my VA care when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers, and then they can bury me in Arlington, also without co-pay. 8 years in the Brown Water Navy and a couple of body parts earned me these benefits.



Yes, but try getting that "European Socialism" through our dysfunctional Congress. Until that happens and pigs fly, I'll be profoundly grateful for the VA, thank you very much. And if you want to see old people get mad, just mention taking away their Medicare, it's a lifesaver for them as the VA is to me. Compared to the alternative(no health insurance at all)it's great.

Grumpy

You're a Vet!? Seriously? And yet you praise the VA? I'm sorry but the VA is FAILING Vets everyday in this country! I am happy you have had good treatment, really, but you have to take a look at the treatment that is being given to the Vet's who have gone through a 10 year+ war. Read some of those links and look at those videos, those are not even the worse stories. If you believe that the choice is between mediocre care and no care then I feel sorry for you because that's not the argument. The argument is that the VA doesn't give adequate nor efficient care because it can't. Its being run by an inadequate and inefficient bureaucratic system that is FAILING them everyday. Especially in the case of PTSD. You can claim that a failing system is better than no system at all but I disagree. I say you need to revamp EVERYTHING. Vet's being given substandard treatment when they need it the most, which is when they finally leave service is shameful. Simply shameful. And if you are a vet then you should know exactly what I am talking about.

[iceaura]

If you believe that the choice is between mediocre care and no care then I feel sorry for you because that's not the argument.

This is the US. Vets under 65 would be out in the general "free market" for medical care, and saddled with the mother of all pre-existing conditions - basically, impossible to self-insure, difficult to hire into employee plans. Without the VA, many if not most vets would have little or no access to medical care in this country - certainly nothing for PTSD or the unique damages of military service.

[Aqueous Id]

Go Grumpy. 50 years after our 2nd little "police action" and there's still fallout. Hope that all works out for you. Vets should be rewarded generously. You couldn't have dragged me into the draft (I lucked out) as for me it was unjustified, and I resented the gung-ho ambition with which people volunteered. However, no one wished any harm on the innocent guys who stepped up to the plate. The rest is history but not without a lot of respect for anyone who suffered for what turned out to be a failed cause.

MsLucy,

Hopefully the VA will nip all of its problems in the bud. I've also had friends who are very happy with their VA care. But apparently there are still problems.


joepistle,

I like your posts. Bachmann is such a fool. But the clowns are good for business, it seems. In any case, I can't wait to see the lampoons of her crying about the "Muslim Brotherhood". That's subliminally Muslim brother from the hood, aka Black Muslim/Black Panther and (did you say McCarthyism) yeah it's another 60s retro Cold War era version of.... racism. The idiots who listen to her are the ones who listen to W-B.I.R.T.H.E.R radio, on their AM dial. They probably still hold a grudge about the changes that they had to go through in junior high when bussing started. Who knows. They're a bunch of raving lunatics, and if she wasn't juicing them up on Islamophobia she'd be railing against the illegals driving up the murder rates in Arizona. Why, only a couple of years ago the drug cartels were occupying the southern part of the state (despite the presence of a US Army base - go figure). Those stories had people wired up then. I wonder what the Michelle-o-sheeple think is going on there now? They probably think you can buy your kilos of powder cocaine in pesos just a half hour south of Tucson.

Of course, she could be like the "sacrificial copper" used to reduce corrosion in a galvanic environment. The more attention she draws on her moronic little self, maybe it fades the heat for Romney? If Palin was an attack-dog Bachmann is what? A cockroach? No, that's too much like cucaracha. A slime mold? A disembodied voice box raving on from inside a smelly armpit? She should have tried some brand identification instead of leaving it up to the public. She's not just pathetic, she's audaciously pathetic. Make that pathological.

Closeted Muslim Brotherhood. Gimme a break. If this is the best their neo-Swift Boaters can come up with, then, yeah it'll just be great fodder for the lampoon comedy shows. Thanks for the update. I'm going to pay attention to her now so I won't miss out as she digs her own hole.

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

This is the US. Vets under 65 would be out in the general "free market" for medical care, and saddled with the mother of all pre-existing conditions - basically, impossible to self-insure, difficult to hire into employee plans. Without the VA, many if not most vets would have little or no access to medical care in this country - certainly nothing for PTSD or the unique damages of military service.

What you claim is simply untrue. The VA exists, what the VA claims to deliver exists, they simply fail to provide the care in an efficient manner. Make up your mind. You claim Vet's under 65 would be out in the general "free market" which means they do not have any benefits. Is there are VA service or not? Are the VA benefits and service a lie or not? Are they in existence or not? Veteran's would like to know. They know what they've been told but suddenly your comment has them not in a government service but out in the "free market".

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

MsLucy,

Hopefully the VA will nip all of its problems in the bud. I've also had friends who are very happy with their VA care. But apparently there are still problems.

"Apparently there are too many unhappy to claim that the service is "loved" or even "happy". I know too much about it to accept such a declaration, its totally bullshit especially when its compared to systems whereby people don't have to join the military in order to get education payed and medical coverage. Its subpar service.

[iceaura]

You claim Vet's under 65 would be out in the general "free market" which means they do not have any benefits.

? Reading comprehension apparently suffers under the onslaught of videos. I suspected as much.

The verb was "would be".

You rightly describe the VA as not what it should be - but it's much better for former soldiers than the rest of the US system is for people who resemble former soldiers.

[Grumpy]

Mrs.Lucysnow

You're a Vet!? Seriously? And yet you praise the VA? I'm sorry but the VA is FAILING Vets everyday in this country!

You once again demonstrate your total ignorance of the facts. The VA is not failing, but they are struggling under the burden of ten+years of two wars with a Congress that won't recognize that this requires more funding. The Va has never failed me or my compatriots and horror stories abound of people suffering under our health insurance system. I could list THOUSANDS of stories about refusal of insurance, outrageous premiums, being kicked off rolls when you get ill, lifetime benefit limits, healthcare cost related bankruptcies and many more from our "Free market" system that I DON"T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. The care I receive from VA is just as good, even more "caring" than any you can get. Sure, I have to get my appointments a couple of weeks ahead of time, deal with a little more waiting in the hospital and other minor aggravation, but I KNOW I can receive care, I KNOW I do not have to worry about my healthcare bankrupting me or my family if I get sick, I KNOW that I will not have to worry about being refused for my pre-existing conditions(considerable, requiring me to spend over half my disability checks for private insurance. My bill for the VA? NADA)or lifetime limits, I KNOW I don't have to shop around in a convoluted system of insurance I don't understand to find one I can afford(if such a Unicorn even exists), I KNOW that wherever I am in the WORLD I will receive care without massive paperwork or questions, I KNOW I will get the latest care with the latest techniques and equipment from doctors that treat me with respect. The VA is the most efficient healthcare system in the US, Medicare is number 2, private insurance costs 1 1/2 as much, doesn't cover as much or as many and skims obscene profits off the top, making it the most costly system in the WORLD. Medicare for all, giving a basic level of preventative and health care, would save money even though we cover everyone, and nothing would stop those who can afford it from getting Cadillac insurance if you want it. In addition, a National system could better control rising costs, get better pricing for prescriptions and NEVER DROP ANYONE OR REFUSE TO COVER PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS(which for me is life or death). Insurance companies provide no health care, they pay for the least they can get away with, they add another layer of bureaucracy and cost on top of the healthcare system and they skim huge profits and corrupt the Congress with bribes. The VA does none of those things and that's why it is much cheaper and a better deal for the money spent, ditto Medicare. Those are the facts.

Grumpy

[joepistole]

Mrs.Lucysnow

You once again demonstrate your total ignorance of the facts. The VA is not failing, but they are struggling under the burden of ten+years of two wars with a Congress that won't recognize that this requires more funding. The Va has never failed me or my compatriots and horror stories abound of people suffering under our health insurance system. I could list THOUSANDS of stories about refusal of insurance, outrageous premiums, being kicked off rolls when you get ill, lifetime benefit limits, healthcare cost related bankruptcies and many more from our "Free market" system that I DON"T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. The care I receive from VA is just as good, even more "caring" than any you can get. Sure, I have to get my appointments a couple of weeks ahead of time, deal with a little more waiting in the hospital and other minor aggravation, but I KNOW I can receive care, I KNOW I do not have to worry about my healthcare bankrupting me or my family if I get sick, I KNOW that I will not have to worry about being refused for my pre-existing conditions(considerable, requiring me to spend over half my disability checks for private insurance. My bill for the VA? NADA)or lifetime limits, I KNOW I don't have to shop around in a convoluted system of insurance I don't understand to find one I can afford(if such a Unicorn even exists), I KNOW that wherever I am in the WORLD I will receive care without massive paperwork or questions, I KNOW I will get the latest care with the latest techniques and equipment from doctors that treat me with respect. The VA is the most efficient healthcare system in the US, Medicare is number 2, private insurance costs 1 1/2 as much, doesn't cover as much or as many and skims obscene profits off the top, making it the most costly system in the WORLD. Medicare for all, giving a basic level of preventative and health care, would save money even though we cover everyone, and nothing would stop those who can afford it from getting Cadillac insurance if you want it. In addition, a National system could better control rising costs, get better pricing for prescriptions and NEVER DROP ANYONE OR REFUSE TO COVER PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS(which for me is life or death). Insurance companies provide no health care, they pay for the least they can get away with, they add another layer of bureaucracy and cost on top of the healthcare system and they skim huge profits and corrupt the Congress with bribes. The VA does none of those things and that's why it is much cheaper and a better deal for the money spent, ditto Medicare. Those are the facts.

Grumpy

Grumpy is correct and reputable independent study (New England Journal of Medicine) supports his claims about the Veterans Adminstration.

"As compared with the Medicare fee-for-service program, the VA performed significantly better on all 11 similar quality indicators for the period from 1997 through 1999. In 2000, the VA outperformed Medicare on 12 of 13 indicators" - The New England Journal of Medicine (2003)

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...1.longman.html

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa021899

[Michael]

Pure Capitalism is the most evil system of all, look to books like Oliver Twist to see how that affects the commoner.

Capitalists have run amok

Wrong, pure capitalism is the most fair system of all if combined with law and property rights.
These last two decades have seen Corporatism run amok not Capitalism. Corporatism is evil and should be abolished. Capitalism in a free-market is the ideal world to live in.

You THINK socialism as a mix is good, it's not. Socialism does nothing but create a political class whereby the Corporations are promised to be protected from the people and the People are promised to be protected from the Corporations. Capitalism is what you practice everyday when you go to the store (freely and of your choosing) and spend your money buying something your desire. There is NOTHING evil in that. When you invest in a business, the act of investing your Capital is the -ism.

Part of the problem has been the HUGE growth in government over the last 100 years to the point where most people have no fundamental idea what the words they're bating around even mean. Politicians LOVE this as they feed the most simplistic drivel to the masses - case in point is Backmann.

I'm beginning to think that best the the Union could do is dissolve. The United States had a good run but it's time to move on to a better system. I fully support Michigan leaving.

[joepistole]

Grumpy is correct and reputable independent study (New England Journal of Medicine) supports his claims about the Veterans Adminstration.

"As compared with the Medicare fee-for-service program, the VA performed significantly better on all 11 similar quality indicators for the period from 1997 through 1999. In 2000, the VA outperformed Medicare on 12 of 13 indicators" - The New England Journal of Medicine (2003)

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...1.longman.html

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa021899

Why do you suppose those evil "corporatist" are funding your political movement?

[Michael]

Why do you suppose those evil "corporatist" are funding your political movement?

Are you referring to the Libertarian movement??? You do understand it gets almost NO support from corporate America. Have you seen Ron Paul's support base??!?

Or are you referring to the Financial Corporations that fully support, and work with, our Progressive President Obama. Who, like almost all politicians, is a narcissistic douche no different than the simpleton he replaced. The LAST time they bought a Progressive, it was Clinton, and he helped them out to the tune of (now) TRILLIONS. Or are you referring to Mittens? Yes, he IS a Corporatist! Of course they like the stink of him, it smells like them.



Oh, I noticed QE3 was whispered today.... you lose Joe.

[joepistole]

Are you referring to the Libertarian movement??? You do understand it gets almost NO support from corporate America. Have you seen Ron Paul's support base??!?

Or are you referring to the Financial Corporations that fully support, and work with, our Progressive President Obama. Who, like almost all politicians, is a narcissistic douche no different than the simpleton he replaced. The LAST time they bought a Progressive, it was Clinton, and he helped them out to the tune of (now) TRILLIONS. Or are you referring to Mittens? Yes, he IS a Corporatist! Of course they like the stink of him, it smells like them.

You appear to not know who is funding your political movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...he_Koch_family

"Charles and David Koch have adopted a much less visible strategy toward advancing their libertarian positions. Interested in maintaining their privacy, they prefer to spend on donations to non-profit groups who do not disclose donors.[9]

Charles G. Koch funds and supports libertarian and free-market organizations such as the Cato Institute,[10] which he co-founded with Edward H. Crane and Murray Rothbard in 1977,[11] and is a board member at the Mercatus Center, a market-oriented research think tank at George Mason University. Koch supported his brother's candidacy for Vice President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1980.[1] After the bid, Charles told a reporter that conventional politics "tends to be a nasty, corrupting business ... I’m interested in advancing libertarian ideas".[1] In addition to funding think tanks, Charles and David also support libertarian academics;[12] since 1992, Charles has funded the Charles G. Koch Summer Fellow Program through the Institute for Humane Studies. The program recruits and mentors young libertarians.[13] Koch also organizes twice yearly meetings[14] of Republican donors." - Wikipedia

The very people you complaint about in your rants are funding your libertarian movement. Gee, I wonder why?

Oh, I noticed QE3 was whispered today.... you lose Joe.

Oh my!

[quadraphonics]

Enough with your idiot derailing of every thread, Michael.

Back to the topic: Michelle Bachmann's baseless, jingoistic attacks on a loyal, upstanding American who has worked hard to do good things for her country are disgusting and un-American. Too bad more Republicans don't have the spine of John McCain (!!!) to stand up against that kind of reprehensible hate and idiocy.

[pjdude1219]

Are you referring to the Libertarian movement??? You do understand it gets almost NO support from corporate America. Have you seen Ron Paul's support base??!.

sure it does. that where the money comes from. the votes come from college students to stupid to know their asshole from a hole in the ground who like him simply because he wants to decriminalize weed.

[Grumpy]

Michael

Wrong, pure capitalism is the most fair system of all if combined with law and property rights.
You THINK socialism as a mix is good, it's not.

The roads were built by socialism, the internet was developed by socialism, our military is funded by socialism, as is almost everything government does. Pure capitalism is the most evil, least democratic institution on Earth. It enriches the few at the expense of everyone else, Feudalism was pure Capitalism, all of it's actions were for the benefit of the King and his court, peons got fed only because a dead peon can't produce value. Let's face facts, you know nothing.

Grumpy

[joepistole]

Enough with your idiot derailing of every thread, Michael.

Back to the topic: Michelle Bachmann's baseless, jingoistic attacks on a loyal, upstanding American who has worked hard to do good things for her country are disgusting and un-American. Too bad more Republicans don't have the spine of John McCain (!!!) to stand up against that kind of reprehensible hate and idiocy.

Agreed, one of the most distressing things about Romney is his inability to stand up to the whacko majority like Bachmann in his party. If Romney has any chance to be a successful president, he needs to stand up to the whackos like Bachmann. Thus far Romney has demonstrated a consistent lack of spinal integrity in that regard.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see anyone with half a brain on the conservative/Republican/Tea Party side of the fence with the ability to control the whacko ditto head mobs led by Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, Bachmann, et al.

[quadraphonics]

Agreed, one of the most distressing things about Romney is his inability to stand up to the whacko majority like Bachmann in his party. If Romney has any chance to be a successful president, he needs to stand up to the whackos like Bachmann. Thus far Romney has demonstrated a consistent lack of spinal integrity in that regard.

He's scared stiff of the base, who distrusts him because he's clearly a city-boy billionaire who doesn't share their values. So no way he's going to cross them - that would guarantee he'll lose the election. But, he's going to lose anyway, and wouldn't be a successful president even if he did stand up to the wackos, so neither here nor there really...

Unfortunately, I have yet to see anyone with half a brain on the conservative/Republican/Tea Party side of the fence with the ability to control the whacko ditto head mobs led by Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, Bachmann, et al.

There isn't anyone. The nuts are in charge now, having spent decades hollowing out and discarding the erstwhile "Establishment." Those types are no longer the fringe, but the definitive core of the party.

[spidergoat]

Romney/ Bachmann 2012!