Salt and Slugs

[Enmos]

The slugs were here way before us.. about 350 million years before us.
We come along and take their land, destroy their habitats and exterminate them.
And somehow they are the pests..
Go figure. What a world.

[Enmos]

Gardens are unnatural agglomerations of mostly foreign and often invasive plants put in place by the most invasive and destructive species on this planet. How are native slugs the pests here?

[Gremmie]

Gardens are unnatural agglomerations of mostly foreign and often invasive plants put in place by the most invasive and destructive species on this planet. How are native slugs the pests here?

Two old cliches come to mind...

1) Might makes right.
2) Survival of the fittest.

Kinda leaves the slugs out.

[Enmos]

It's more like "arrogance makes it right".
Survival of the fittest? Oh come on.. the slugs have managed to survive for over 350 million years. We're just newcomers.

[KilljoyKlown]

The slugs were here way before us.. about 350 million years before us.
We come along and take their land, destroy their habitats and exterminate them.
And somehow they are the pests..
Go figure. What a world.

Have you ever had a slug race. Any starting place will do, you then take a magnifying glass and focus the suns rays to a small spot at the slugs tail and see how far you can get him to move in 30 seconds.

Actually they are not pest until they invade your garden. By the way have you ever seen a Washington State slug? These slugs are the biggest slugs I've ever seen. Some of them are over 6 inches in length.

[Enmos]

They are only pests according to our own egocentric definitions.
We invaded them, not the other way around.

[Gremmie]

They are only pests according to our own egocentric definitions.
We invaded them, not the other way around.

This is true. But...

Unless the slug evolves, and acquires a death ray or something, they will probably never be treated any differently than they are now.

Just sayin'

I've personally never had a slug problem, so I don't bother with them.

Live and let live... Untill you encroach upon me anyway.

[defekkto]

No but the difference here is that we as consciouss being cause the death of other beings and take enjoyment from such practice. Thing is, a snail/slug in your garden is a pest and what kills them is okey in terms of morality. But taking pride in doing so is immoral in my sense. It is same with bacteria washed by soap, kill to survive. Do not kill for enjoyment, that is wrong.

So if you wash your hands more times then necessary or just because you enjoy doing so then that is wrong?

[KilljoyKlown]

They are only pests according to our own egocentric definitions.
We invaded them, not the other way around.

Actually I would prefer to keep them out of the garden in the first place. I've heard if you put a ring of rock salt around the garden the slugs will avoid it like the plague.

[Enmos]

This is true. But...

Unless the slug evolves, and acquires a death ray or something, they will probably never be treated any differently than they are now.

Just sayin'

I've personally never had a slug problem, so I don't bother with them.

Live and let live... Untill you encroach upon me anyway.

If they evolve any smarts at all, that will probably be that last thing they will ever do. Let alone when they would acquire a death-ray.. lol

[Enmos]

Actually I would prefer to keep them out of the garden in the first place. I've heard if you put a ring of rock salt around the garden the slugs will avoid it like the plague.

Wouldn't that wash away and harm your plants?

[MRC_Hans]

Salt is a terribly painful death for slugs.
They die in agony.
But they deserve it.

Actually, slugs are unlikely to experience pain in the sense we do. Pain is useful to us, because we can take flight, learn to avoid damage, spare a wounded limb, etc.

The slug cannot take flight, it cannot learn, and it has few choices of ways of moving, so ... in short, it has little use for pain. The defence strategy for a slug is to contact to smallest possible extent (near round) and excrete a slime cocoon, - repeat as needed. This is the reason salt kills it: As a reaction to the salt, it keeps excreting slime till it runs out of water.

For a creature with such a low organization the only way to kill it quickly witout apparant agony is either squashing it totally (yuck!), or immersing it in boiling water. Compared with everything else, salt seems neither better nor worse, provided there is salt enough.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

The slugs were here way before us.. about 350 million years before us.
We come along and take their land, destroy their habitats and exterminate them.
And somehow they are the pests..
Go figure. What a world.

It is called evolution. The natural world has no morals. It is full of creatures that would gladly take our place, if they could.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

Have you ever had a slug race. Any starting place will do, you then take a magnifying glass and focus the suns rays to a small spot at the slugs tail and see how far you can get him to move in 30 seconds.

Actually they are not pest until they invade your garden. By the way have you ever seen a Washington State slug? These slugs are the biggest slugs I've ever seen. Some of them are over 6 inches in length.

True, of course, but all species are ultimately invasive: They took their habitat from some other species. Humans, however, are exceptionally good at it.

Hans

[KilljoyKlown]

Wouldn't that wash away and harm your plants?

Have an elevated garden and add salt as needed. Of course snail & slug bait also works quite well.

[KilljoyKlown]

True, of course, but all species are ultimately invasive: They took their habitat from some other species. Humans, however, are exceptionally good at it.

Hans

We are not taking their habitat, we are merely restricting it. Animals that want to survive in a human world need adapt or go extent. They need to become pets like dogs and cats or food like farm animals. There are probably more chickens alive now than at any time in the history of the earth.

[defekkto]

It is called evolution. The natural world has no morals. It is full of creatures that would gladly take our place, if they could.

Hans

I agree, of course we shouldn't go out of our way to cause harm to other species but if animals are in danger of extinction it's because they aren't adapting to our ever-changing world and extinction is just another regular process of the earth.

[FTLinmedium]

Actually, slugs are unlikely to experience pain in the sense we do. Pain is useful to us, because we can take flight, learn to avoid damage, spare a wounded limb, etc.
The slug cannot take flight, it cannot learn, and it has few choices of ways of moving, so ... in short, it has little use for pain.

The first point is completely false- slugs are mobile. Animals that can not feel pain at all don't have brains at all- completely sedentary animals, such as oysters.

Slugs do have brains- and the only thing that would make them useful is a capacity to feel pain- and the only use they have is some capacity for learning and adaptive behavior.

So, your second points is false too.

I'd bet good money that they can learn in a substantial and easily testable way, too. Take some electrodes and give a slug a little shock every time it turns left. Or include two kinds of leaves it likes, and shock it whenever it starts munching on one type but not the other.

Not the nicest of experiments, but it's entirely testable. I've heard of simpler animals than slugs being capable of very basic learning (on that level).

Slugs may not experience as much pain, having a lesser capacity to process it, but they certainly experience pain as real and meaningful as we do because it's necessary to guide their actions towards the most optimal behavior for the best use of the resources they have.

They choose their environments, their food sources, and basically avoid things that harm them.

That's not to say you shouldn't kill them if they're infesting your gardens. But it's just pseudoscience to suggest they can't feel pain.

[KilljoyKlown]

The first point is completely false- slugs are mobile. Animals that can not feel pain at all don't have brains at all- completely sedentary animals, such as oysters.

I'm not so sure oysters don't experience some kind of pain. After all one of the reasons they make perils, is because a grain of sand is irritating them. However how we or different creatures experience pain is up some debate.

[FTLinmedium]

I'm not so sure oysters don't experience some kind of pain. After all one of the reasons they make perils, is because a grain of sand is irritating them. However how we or different creatures experience pain is up some debate.

Our bodies encapsulate foreign material too- we don't do it consciously. I don't know if we can personify the experience an oyster has as irritation.