Auschwitz Holocaust Claims Are Unsubstantiated

**James R** · 06-17-12, 09:34 PM

This thread is for discussion relating to the debate between steampunk and James R.

Related threads:

Debate thread
Proposal thread

**Syzygys** · 06-17-12, 09:43 PM

Looks like you just never learn:

**Syzygys** · 06-24-12, 08:47 PM

So is this debate going on or not? The last debate that actually took of was back in February...

Where is steampunk anyway? Has he been banned again?

**James R** · 06-24-12, 09:09 PM

steampunk's ban has expired. We'll see if he comes back or not.

keith1 · 06-24-12, 10:26 PM

I have seen untouched photo/film evidence of the period, a non-officiate could basically label: "liberation/allied entry into camps" of the debate subject matter, all grotesque. I watched these films before photo-shop techniques were available, so can be confident in what I was observing to be authentic.

I watched it with an open mind to the common ravages of war events, such as "war camp conditions to be expected", specifically at the end of a war, where the (after-acknowledged or prospective) "loser" of the war would normally be cutting operation costs to conserve needed war-support funding, etc.
I was looking for comparisons to photos and accounts of U.S. Civil War Confederate "Andersonville Prison", where the photos of gaunt subjects were of single individuals, as opposed to, for example, the Bergen-Belson WW2 camp photos of mass burials. I will not bring photos or details of gold teeth and hair collecting...but to state that the movie photos were quite disturbing.

One could venture a thought that an army desperate in it's final months/years, even perhaps still in hopes of a turn of fates...a period of denial, whatever. That a decision to ship large populations of "ethnically profiled" prisoners by train, to remote locations of interment, would be more in line with an unscrupulous plot, then say, training them to the allied front, to be a burden on the allied effort...and avoid the preponderance and initiating conditions of war crime appearances...

One who has the boldness of supposed victory would not care about appearances. Yet, hiding mass numbers of cremated bodies was a decided method of detainment.

Crimes have:
--opportunity
--motive
--evidence, photographic/film being highly conclusive.

War is hell, and to the victor(s) goes the historic account and truth.
But the evidence here remains far from cryptic and mere suspicious.

More suspicious than an affirmation by a orator that has a history of being banned for orating.

**spidergoat** · 06-24-12, 11:48 PM

My great aunt is a holocaust survivor and still alive in Israel. She still bears the tattoo. I would sooner believe her first hand report than any elaborate engineering fantasy some pseudo-scientific douche of a neo-Nazi has created to undermine the history of those he hates.

keith1 · 06-25-12, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

My great aunt is a holocaust survivor and still alive in Israel. She still bears the tattoo. I would sooner believe her first hand report than any elaborate engineering fantasy some pseudo-scientific douche of a neo-Nazi has created to undermine the history of those he hates.

I'd like to take them out back, (and my mom and my father's mom are pure blood German), When they hit the U.S. shore, back in the 1890's, they wasted no time learning English and assimilated into the society hook, line, and sinker.
There was never a discussion that I can recall of local animosity about their loyalty. There was supposedly German spies in Roosevelt's cabinet, but I'm not going to substantiate that.

Loyalty is a two-edged sword. I remember being a Democrat in the Bay Area, when Reagan was president, and I was silent and worried about loosing my job. Republicans were next to Nazi in those days. I mean it.

**scifes** · 06-25-12, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

My great aunt is a holocaust survivor and still alive in Israel. She still bears the tattoo. I would sooner believe her first hand report than any elaborate engineering fantasy some pseudo-scientific douche of a neo-Nazi has created to undermine the history of those he hates.

my great aunt is lori and she's tattooed from god all over, yeah i'd believe her over some scientist nutjob who sees less day light than a cave bat with theories he made up because he can't understand whatever doesn't fit in a test tube.

**Buddha12** · 06-25-12, 08:37 AM

Loyalty is a two-edged sword. I remember being a Democrat in the Bay Area, when Reagan was president, and I was silent and worried about loosing my job. Republicans were next to Nazi in those days. I mean it

And now we are in a very deep recession which is over 8% unemployment and climbing, people are losing their homes, families are needing Federal bail outs and banks are stealing from the public along with Wall Street but yet you don't seem to mention this happening now, why not?

**spidergoat** · 06-25-12, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by scifes

my great aunt is lori and she's tattooed from god all over, yeah i'd believe her over some scientist nutjob who sees less day light than a cave bat with theories he made up because he can't understand whatever doesn't fit in a test tube.

Please kill yourself.

**scifes** · 06-25-12, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

Please kill yourself.

pause, zoom out, and ponder the scene.

you want us to discard that guys arguments because of a personal conviction you have based on trust in your family, how is that different from lori wanting us to believe in a god she looked at and spoke to?

i don't even know what james's opponents argument is, but your intrusion is elementarily stupid, i don't think all of the holocaust could've been pulled off as hoax, but i see it very feasible that the details, numbers and descriptions could've been altered/pumped up. then again it might be all true (which doesn't justify the world blackmailed by jews but that's another story).

**spidergoat** · 06-25-12, 11:28 AM

If anything people don't realize how common these death camps were, there were thousands in every country the Germans occupied. But they didn't all gas them, most people were simply neglected and starved to death. The evidence is overwhelming, but firsthand accounts are also corroboration of them. It's not like someone telling you about a transitory hallucinogenic experience, these are the stories of people's lives, from how they were captured to what they lived through. It's as plain as the nose on your face what happened. But the Jews knew that people would doubt it, so they compiled all the evidence in one place. The Holocaust Museum has all the evidence you will ever need.

**scifes** · 06-25-12, 12:16 PM

Creation Museum came to mind for some reason..

**spidergoat** · 06-25-12, 12:29 PM

The only difference is that the Creation Museum is full of chickencrap and the Holocaust Museum is full of evidence.

**Syzygys** · 06-25-12, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by scifes

Creation Museum came to mind for some reason..

That is of course an oxymoron, by definition:

"A museum is an institution that cares for a collection of artifacts and other objects of scientific, artistic, cultural, or historical importance and makes them available for viewing."

What exactly is scientific or historical in the Creation Museum?

**scifes** · 06-25-12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

The only difference is that the Creation Museum is full of chickencrap and the Holocaust Museum is full of evidence.

so my point still escapes you? i thought you had more reason in you than these bubbling red hot emotions for your ancestors misfortune.
tell me, have you been to the creation museum?

cuz i think what's in that holocaust museum of yours is cockcrap as well.
one mueseum doesn't contain evidence and the other not because you say so, even if in reality one does and the other not, you need to provide for an argument more than "god says so", "the bible says so" or "my aunt says so", scriptures and tattoos are evidence of equal validity.

now as i said, regardless of how much of what is claimed about the holocaust is true and what is not, your chirp about your relatives word of mouth weighs nothing in an evidence scale, otherwise lori's first hand experience is as valid as your aunt.

this is all getyourfactsstraight101, you must love your aunt very much to be sill pressing the subject blindly.

**scifes** · 06-25-12, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Syzygys

That is of course an oxymoron, by definition:

"A museum is an institution that cares for a collection of artifacts and other objects of scientific, artistic, cultural, or historical importance and makes them available for viewing."

What exactly is scientific or historical in the Creation Museum?

i don't know, i haven't been to it.
what others consider art i consider trash, still i don't decide what museums are allowed to exist and which are not.

**spidergoat** · 06-25-12, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by scifes

so my point still escapes you? i thought you had more reason in you than these bubbling red hot emotions for your ancestors misfortune.
tell me, have you been to the creation museum?

cuz i think what's in that holocaust museum of yours is cockcrap as well.
one mueseum doesn't contain evidence and the other not because you say so, even if in reality one does and the other not, you need to provide for an argument more than "god says so", "the bible says so" or "my aunt says so", scriptures and tattoos are evidence of equal validity.

now as i said, regardless of how much of what is claimed about the holocaust is true and what is not, your chirp about your relatives word of mouth weighs nothing in an evidence scale, otherwise lori's first hand experience is as valid as your aunt.

this is all getyourfactsstraight101, you must love your aunt very much to be sill pressing the subject blindly.

If you didn't notice, I didn't offer my aunt's account as something that would convince other people. I only said I would rather believe her than a bigot.

It's not my job to teach you history.

**spidergoat** · 06-25-12, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by scifes

...what others consider art i consider trash....

Typical Nazi attitude towards art.

**scifes** · 06-25-12, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

If you didn't notice, I didn't offer my aunt's account as something that would convince other people. I only said I would rather believe her than a bigot.

It's not my job to teach you history.

close enough.
what you would rather believe is better suited in alternative theories, religion or free thoughts, you be mentioning your opinion on serious subforas and people will mistaken them as proposed facts.

Originally Posted by spidergoat

Typical Nazi attitude towards art.

lol, how do you know what "art" i had in mind?

lets say some radical nazis believe there's art in killing people, and the holocaust is their mona lisa, hitler their da vinci..
.. would i be a nazi for thinking their art is trash?

is there any type whatsoever of so called "art" that you consider trash spider?
or is it whoever calls something art you're inclined to agree with them?