7-Month Pregnant Woman Forced Into Labor to Abort Unborn Baby

In a shocking story originating in the country of China, a 7 month pregnant woman who was unable to pay the fine for violating the country's hated "one child policy" was taken from her home by a group of government officials and escorted into a building, in which she was barricaded and given labor-inducing drugs to result in birthing a stillborn fetus. This story has been confirmed by multiple sources, including:

ChinaSMACK
CNN
UK Daily Mail

...and many other legitimate news sources worldwide. The public backlash against the officials involved in this lurid story is astounding. Meanwhile, apologists for China have defended this event as a morally relativist cultural phenomenon that should be respected by outsiders who simply don't understand the methods to China's madness.

Use this thread to discuss the ethics of abducting women who break the law and forcing them into labor. I understand that we have several individuals on this board who believe that bringing light to events reflective of a country's values is inherently racist and try to shut down discussions about events like this. How do such individuals reconcile their beliefs with this event?

I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts and feelings on this matter.

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I don't know what to say...this is very dark...just sit there for hours contemplating it with no real results. This is for lack of better words that escape me ... This is truly some fucked up shit

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Why "shocking"?

What makes this "shocking"?

This has been going on for years. Or ... is there something new about this that I'm missing?

 

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The only reason this is "shocking" to you is because it's china. If i posted a clip of a poor person kicked out of a hospital and dumped on the streets with the drip still in there arm you would call that "care".

 

Some quotations from other readers of the story:

Some of my own thoughts:

I think that China's one child policy is sound. However, I believe that this method of enforcement (dragging people off and drugging them) is reminiscent of the Soviet Union's "secret police" or the German gestapo. Some of you seem to think that this story is not shocking for the reason that it has taken place before. However, that only highlights your own tragic desensitization to brutality. Forced inductions regardless of how long they have been taking place in history would and should continue to strike the nerves of any well-adjusted individuals. If you feel indifferent toward it, you may want to check your ethics.

 

The new part seems to be that it was photographed, and that the photographs were widely publicized. Since these actions are, officially, illegal, that then forces the CCP to respond and so be seen punishing the guys who did this.

 

It's unbelievably sick. A mental illness IMO. While I know everyone here hates when I bring up morality and the State. I'd argue that this presents a good example of why this IS an immoral act. See, without morality society is tricked into thinking something completely immoral, such as this act, is moral. Yet, once we agree that the initiation of force is immoral, then we can see that this is an immoral act. There's no need to debate.

I imagine most American governmental official only dream of having such authority over the American public. They probably stand in awe and inspiration at the CCP.

 

Why are athiests such trolls? There is no absolute answer either way. No knowledge, only faith. Yes athiests have faith God doesn't exist.

 

WTF are you talking about? Nobody - including the state in question or the CCP - contends that this was "moral." There is no debate over that point.

Nor has anybody here ever had any trouble with the concept that states can and do commit immoral acts. We just tire of your hysterical denunciations of income tax, as if that sort of normal, consensual thing were comparable to forced abortions and the like.

 

Why the aggressiveness?

The people who murdered this human being were part and parcel of the CCP. THEY thought that what they were doing was moral. My point is about how we do and do not know something is moral. If we apply Ethics then we can see quite clearly. If these were CCP members, or just divulged their authority from the CCP, either way ... if they had a proper moral philosophical foundation then they would have questioned their motives, their actions and ultimately their decision to kill this baby.

Ethics is a rigorous study based on rational logical arguments. One would think my comments would be welcomed in this thread?

I believe Plato writes that Socrates employed the phrase "Know thyself" for one to question why they're even interested in a topic. What is it about ourselves that draw us to a particular thread topic? Introspection on why we're even having a debate about 7-Month pregnant woman was forced to have an abortion is something one may want to question. Unlike anyone here (I am fairly sure) I have personally conducted medical studies on aborted fetuses from 8-20 weeks and published that research. I know what an aborted human fetus looks like in intimate detail. That's why I'm drawn to the thread. Abortion is never a happy experience. It's traumatic. for those mothers who donated their fetuses to medical research, they were at least given some small pittance of respite knowing that this excruciatingly painful decision may in some way act to save the lives of another mother's baby.

We can not even begin to imagine what it would be like to force a woman to abort or, if a woman, to be forced to abort your own child.

So, I wonder to myself. How could one human, wearing their stupid looking Official Clown Uniform with their idiotic Clown Hat and moronic Clown Badge come to believe their appointment as Head of the Clown Brigade gives them the moral authority to kill another human. I believe they. like most people, are under the mistaken delusion that if something is legal, it's therefor moral. As I have tried to state in the other threads. I'm not changing my tune. I'm applying the SAME logic universally. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Prove it. Just make a simple example where Ethics is not violated and yet one can still initiate force against another human. Why do I choose the island? Because it removed illusions like "America" or other constructs that cloud our thinking regarding basic Ethics. Phrases like "For the Glory of God" or "For the Betterment of Society" do cloud the discussion. AND this is no different than saying: "In the Real World". You know, those Shadows dancing on the Cave Wall?

Is it true that things are ethical or not ethical? I believe in universality of ethics and so for me the answer is yes. If not ethics can't be applied correctly. Maybe not at all. Which means there is no Ethics and morals change with society. This just can't be. That's not how we apply logic. Agreed?

So, I may be hitting a nerve with you. And so I'd suggest we all take Plato's advice of "Know Thyself" and question our motives for why we are draw to one debate or another.

If there was ever initiation of force against an innocent person - this would be an example of it. And it's not the only example.

Sorry for the long winded response, but, that's what draws me to these topics.

 

How does that.....HAVE ANY RELEVANCE TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND!!! Wrong forum buddy. Wrong forum if you're going to bash atheism at least go to the religon section.

 

Thank you

Ah, I see. Thank you.

 

Once again what hypocrisy, you lot defend the US denying medical care to someone who's face has been eaten off because everything should be about profit, you defend paying for someone to have there brothers tested to find a compatible kidney donor and then denying the transplant which is the only hope of a young father dying of kidney cancer, you defend the pitiful level of "care" give to the people who cant afford to pay for private cover, some of you (michael) even claim that this is a form of natural selection, if you cant get a job and therefore cover from your boss you aren't worth getting care and then you have the audacity to condemn this????

 

I cannot see the original post and its link because Willnever is on my ignore list, but I suspect the OP is only interested in this because it happened in China and he hates China and the Chinese. So whatever... :facepalm:

What happened is a shame, but I would suggest you not gratify Willnever by reacting to his goad.

 

Freud Down Under

I think it's just trans-oceanic penis envy, or something like that.

Is there any issue, in your opinion, that Americans are allowed to think about without needing to shoot themselves in the head in order to atone for the hypocrisy?

I mean, at some point, isn't it just a bit ridiculous? Oh, the hypocrisy! How's that refugee problem in Nauru? I mean, what's the point of bitching about that, right? Every nation has its sins, and one thing that puzzles politically conscientious Americans when they consider certain international issues is the idea of people who apparently loathe us also wanting to be us.

I mean, we appreciate having friends who stand by us, and all. But friends don't let friends drive drunk. Friends don't let friends beer goggle. And for heaven's sake, friends don't waste their precious blood on our dumb-assed sporting wars. Unless, of course, they're British or Australian.

Do you see, Asguard? There are lots of things wrong in the world, and when Australia's collective flatulence smells like Cinnabon, then y'all can whine. Meanwhile, trying to tie every issue back to how awful and hypocritical Americans are only reinforces our already unwieldy cultural presupposition that anyone criticizing us is just jealous. Your obsessive critique of the United States is an excellent bulwark for our "fuck the world" contingent.

British Tories are trying to undermine the National Health Service, so they can be more corporate-based like Americans. Australians are excluding indigenous youth from the National Health Survey because it might create political problems to deal with the diminished averages. If you want to criticize our hypocrisy, stop trying to be like us. Because from here, it just looks like envy.

And, you know, those of us who are sympathetic to our international neighbors' concerns about American conduct at home and abroad haven't yet come around to the point of recognizing how ignorant obsession with purported pathological evil of being American is actually helpful.

Ronald Poppo remains in critical condition and barely recognizable recovering from the horrific injuries he endured when a face-eating attacker ripped off his flesh, and RadarOnline.com has learned that the local county will be paying for his mammoth medical costs.

“It could easily cost $100,000 to $200,000 for the reconstructive surgeries that he will need to get his face back,” Miami, Florida-based plastic surgeon Dr. Michael Salzhauer of Bal Harbour Plastic Surgery told RadarOnline.com in an exclusive interview.

(Emery)​

____________________

Notes:

Emery, Debbie. "Homeless Face-Eating Victim In Line For Over $100,000 Reconstructive Surgery Paid For By The County". Radar Online. May 30, 2012. RadarOnline.com. June 15, 2012. http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/05/face-eating-victim-reconstructive-surgery-paid-county

 

Actually the hypocracy I was talking about was the POSTERS (Michael and will specifically), not the country. If its ok (in there opinion) to treat life as a commodity then they can't complain when other countries do it. If its NOT ok for them then they really need to take a look at how there OWN advocacy treats lives right now and a lot closer than china

 

Works for me

Okay. Fair enough.

To the one, though, I will reiterate that the county is taking care of the gravely disfigured Mr. Poppo. To the other, I missed the thread where Michael and Will opposed his medical care.

Apologies for missing that latter, and also the interpretive inflation that resulted.

 

Actually, I'm not the one displaying hypocrisy, you are. I won't bother explain why, as we both know it'll be a total waste of time.

You're in good company. Most Australians I know live in the same fantasy land. Luckily, so long as China's economy continues to grow and Australian politicians are willing to sell large stakes in AU companies, sell off farm land, increase immigration and sell off mineral rights, they'll continue to give handouts to Australians and you'll continue to live in a delusional fantasy land - at least for awhile. AU is basically one Big Mining Pit afterall. That's the "magical" formula of why AU economy is doing relatively well. YOU could have helped invest in mining projects 10 years ago (or now). But you probably didn't and probably won't. However, other's did the research and took the risk. And now you want to take their profits and give it to some politicians to redistribute to you or pet projects that make you feel like "the governments is fixing things".

Oh, and the man with his face eaten off, he was immediately given 3 surgeries freely. So, next time, do some research ,,, or better yet, just live in la la land. You know "The Lucky Country"... the mining pit more like it.



By the way, what medical technologies HAS Australia contributed towards the world of human medicine? ANYTHING? Let's see, there was one UNFUNDED academic who discovered helobactor pylori causes 50% of stomach ulcers and then there was one over-funded avian flu vaccine. Both these used conventional technology invented by capitalistic corporations in other countries. Where are the AU invented fMRI machines? There was the WiFi but that was only a small part of the overall technology.

So? Where's all the AU technological innovations? Where? You claim AU has a wonderful government and medical system, yet it seems from my POV it's a case of BUYING medical technology from other nations using mining pit monet. Which is why medicine is so expensive in AU and so cheap in Japan (where they actually innovate and produce their own medicine).

So, go back to your fantasy land Asguard. You know: THANKS Steven Jobs YOU have his KIDNEY... I hope you're happy now!

Talk about 180 degrees from reality.