Hydrochloric acid

**Extrovert39** · 06-14-12, 08:14 PM

If HCl is poured into water (H2O), what is produced?

**Believe** · 06-15-12, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

If HCl is poured into water (H2O), what is produced?

Pure 100% HCl is a gas so the liquid HCl you have there is HCl already dissolved in H2O. Adding more water to it will just dilute it. You also get ions I suppose H^+ and Cl^-.

**Nasor** · 06-15-12, 02:50 PM

H3O+ and Cl-

**Extrovert39** · 06-15-12, 05:10 PM

Hmmmm, two conflicting answers.

Is Nasor correct?

**KilljoyKlown** · 06-15-12, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

Hmmmm, two conflicting answers.

Is Nasor correct?

I think so, but check out the link below.

http://www.bioportfolio.com/resource...rochloric.html

**Extrovert39** · 06-15-12, 06:10 PM

Thanks for the link.

So Cl- is given off as a gas? Is it possible to mix Cl- with H20?

Thanks for the big help guys.

**origin** · 06-15-12, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

Thanks for the link.

So Cl- is given off as a gas? Is it possible to mix Cl- with H20?

Thanks for the big help guys.

Cl- is an ionic solid. Cl2 is a gas and a very nasty gas. You will not get Cl2 the only gas will be H2

When you add acid to water a reaction occurs because you are effectively adding a very low pH liquid to a high pH liquid. The reaction is very exothermic, so much so that adding water to a high molality acid could cause the water to instantly boil and splash into your face - a bad deal.

That is why you should:

"add acid to wata (water) like you outa (ought to)".

Never add a water to acid.

By the way, saying you get Cl- and H+ or saying you get Cl- and H3O+ amounts to the same thing.

**Believe** · 06-15-12, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

Hmmmm, two conflicting answers.

Is Nasor correct?

Yes and no we are both right. It is in a state of constant flux between H3O (hydronium) and H+. Most of the mechanisms that I have studied just list it as H+ so I generally just list it as H+ but both are equally correct!

**Believe** · 06-15-12, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by origin

Cl- is an ionic solid. Cl2 is a gas and a very nasty gas. You will not get Cl2 the only gas will be H2

When you add acid to water a reaction occurs because you are effectively adding a very low pH liquid to a high pH liquid. The reaction is very exothermic, so much so that adding water to a high molality acid could cause the water to instantly boil and splash into your face - a bad deal.

That is why you should:

"add acid to wata (water) like you outa (ought to)".

Never add a water to acid.

By the way, saying you get Cl- and H+ or saying you get Cl- and H3O+ amounts to the same thing.

I'm not sure if this is really a problem with HCl as it is already diluted. I think you can only get it at like 35% purity as in a pure state it is a gas but good advice none the less! However, with nitric acid and ESPECIALLY sulfuric acid this is very true. Never, ever add water to pure sulfuric acid or you're gonna have a bad time.

**Believe** · 06-15-12, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

Thanks for the link.

So Cl- is given off as a gas? Is it possible to mix Cl- with H20?

Thanks for the big help guys.

No gas, the Cl- is an ion in the water still so it is mixed with the H2O. Likely it causes the H2O to form some OH- and it goes back to HCL but not very much as the OH- would almost instantly combine with one of the free H+ ions or a H3O to make 2 H2O's since the solution is acidic. Most things like this (water included) actually exist in a state of flux called an equilibrium state. Chemistry is fun! To learn more about the self ionization of water read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

**Extrovert39** · 06-17-12, 05:31 PM

I'm looking to make H30+. I thought HCl in water might do this, but sounds like maybe not. Any ideas?

**origin** · 06-17-12, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

I'm looking to make H30+. I thought HCl in water might do this, but sounds like maybe not. Any ideas?

It will make H3O+

HCl -> (in water) Cl- + H+.

H2O + H+ <--> H3O+

'Making' some sort of stable H3O is not really possible because the proton (H+) bounces around from water molecule to water molecule and it floats around the solution on it's own too.

**Extrovert39** · 06-18-12, 08:23 AM

Would the h+ ions escape the hydronium solution to crate just water?

I need to make just H30+ Lol...

Also is it possible electricity would conduct over the H+ ions? I wonder if a current would turn it into H20 because the H+ would combine with oxygen in the air...

**origin** · 06-18-12, 09:53 AM

Water breaks apart and recombines in the following manner.

$H_2O <-> OH^- + H^+$ .

So the water is in an equilibrium of the disassociation and recombination of the hydroxyl and hydronium ions into water, chemically it is described with an equilibrium constant:

$K = \frac{[H^+] [OH^-]}{[H_2O]}$

K tells you to what level the water disassociates.

The amount of disassociation in pure water is low though ~ $1 X 10^{-7}$ for $OH^-$ and $1 X 10^{-7}$ for $H^+$ .

pH is the negative log of the $H^+$ ion. So bascially this tells you that if you decrease the pH (add acid) you are increasing the concentration of the $H^+$ .

The $H^+$ can also be expressed as $H_3O^+$ .

If you want a conductive solution the use of salt would be much easier and safer.

**Extrovert39** · 06-18-12, 11:10 AM

Thanks for the info.

All I really want to be sure of now (I've understood everything else) is that HCl in water will create hydronium. The hyndronium won't break down, there won't be tons of other stuff in it. We need it for our lab

...will keep ya'll posted.

We'll also be interested in the conductivity, maybe H30+ will be a mediocre conductor.

**origin** · 06-18-12, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

Thanks for the info.

All I really want to be sure of now (I've understood everything else) is that HCl in water will create hydronium. The hyndronium won't break down, there won't be tons of other stuff in it. We need it for our lab

...will keep ya'll posted.

We'll also be interested in the conductivity, maybe H30+ will be a mediocre conductor.

Pure water is a terrible conductor. The more HCl you add the more conductive the water will be because of the H+ and the Cl-.

**Nasor** · 06-18-12, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by origin

'Making' some sort of stable H3O is not really possible because the proton (H+) bounces around from water molecule to water molecule and it floats around the solution on it's own too.

You can make solid crystals of hydronium and a counter-anion, although I don't think any of them are very safe to make or handle.

**Extrovert39** · 06-18-12, 12:17 PM

We're going to give it a shot with Muratic acid from the hardware store.

There is muratic acid, and a "substitute". There are no ingredients lists, however both say they contain hydrochloric acid.

How do the "water it down" if HCl will react with water to produce hydronium and chloride?

With muratic acid, will we get hydronium, or something else, or possibly crap in there?

**Nasor** · 06-19-12, 03:54 PM

What exactly are you trying to do?

**Believe** · 06-19-12, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Extrovert39

We're going to give it a shot with Muratic acid from the hardware store.

There is muratic acid, and a "substitute". There are no ingredients lists, however both say they contain hydrochloric acid.

How do the "water it down" if HCl will react with water to produce hydronium and chloride?

With muratic acid, will we get hydronium, or something else, or possibly crap in there?

The muratic acid is already HCl + H2O, as is all liquid HCl since pure HCl is a gas. So you already have hydronium and H+. Adding more water will just dilute it.

BTW, I hope you are not trying to make meth or something.