Freedom with BIG brother?

[R1D2]

So what? Are you planning on committing a crime and are worried about being caught on camera? The fact that you didn't get a ticket means you were lucky. But the city is ready to start when they get the okay. I think it's cool the way the little flasher starts flashing you when you are speeding up to or through an intersection. At least you are being given a warning and it's right that you should be worried so maybe you will be more careful the next time. More people get killed in intersection accidents than any other way. I'd rather it not be anybody I know, including you.

As far as your personal safety goes having cameras strategically place around your home is very helpful. Nice to know who's at your door before you open it. It's also nice to monitor the neighborhood traffic, after a couple of weeks you really know whats normal and what isn't. The only problem is it can be very addicting.

Addicting, kinda like sciforums. I'm plain paranoid. From the military. I guess I like keeping some things "private".

[Neverfly]

So what? Are you planning on committing a crime and are worried about being caught on camera? The fact that you didn't get a ticket means you were lucky. But the city is ready to start when they get the okay. I think it's cool the way the little flasher starts flashing you when you are speeding up to or through an intersection. At least you are being given a warning and it's right that you should be worried so maybe you will be more careful the next time. More people get killed in intersection accidents than any other way. I'd rather it not be anybody I know, including you.

As far as your personal safety goes having cameras strategically place around your home is very helpful. Nice to know who's at your door before you open it. It's also nice to monitor the neighborhood traffic, after a couple of weeks you really know whats normal and what isn't. The only problem is it can be very addicting.

We had security cameras like that for years, and could see all around the house.
The weather finally got into one of them and I never bothered to replace it. Opening the door was just as effective to see who was out there. And if it was a baddie, I could take him anyway.

A lot of people say, "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't object to the cameras."

I don't need to have something to hide to feel uncomfortable being watched.
Cameras can easily be abused.

[R1D2]

We had security cameras like that for years, and could see all around the house.
The weather finally got into one of them and I never bothered to replace it. Opening the door was just as effective to see who was out there. And if it was a baddie, I could take him anyway.

A lot of people say, "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't object to the cameras."

I don't need to have something to hide to feel uncomfortable being watched.
Cameras can easily be abused.

At least someone sees it like I do...

[KilljoyKlown]

The traffic Cameras:

In principle, the idea seems sound. Cameras flash ya as you run a red light and you get the ticket in the mail.
This discourages red light runners- that cause accidents, simply because they don't see a cop around. Now they know the absence of a cop doesn't mean no ticket.

There's only one problem... They don't work right.

Even the city police cars, not breaking any laws, get photographed.
We've had three instances of the cameras taking the picture- when no infraction occurred.
The city will try to dupe you into paying the fine anyway. You have to fight them to view the recorded cam logs. They'll admit defeat only when you prove yourself innocent.

If there's a problem it can be fixed. I do know that many emergency vehicles carry a device that triggers the cameras to start taking pictures as they get within a certain range of the intersection. Probably saves the city from being sued as often as they were before cameras. There's just something about being photographed when your in the wrong that prevents you from suing a public vehicle accident that you caused.

[Neverfly]

If there's a problem it can be fixed.

If they were interested in fixing it- they would. They're more interested in the added revenue.

[KilljoyKlown]

If they were interested in fixing it- they would. They're more interested in the added revenue.

Well just drive so you won't get a ticket and don't add to their revenue and just maybe keep your insurance rates lower. Speaking of insurance rates do you know what Progressives snapshot monitors to judge what kind of driver you are? How hard you work your breaks. A good driver rarely ever has the make a quick stop.

[R1D2]

An I won't ever have the snap shot plan. Too much info for them. An you drive around the city you are going to slam on brakes. Red lights an dumb drivers.#1 factor here

[KilljoyKlown]

An I won't ever have the snap shot plan. Too much info for them. An you drive around the city you are going to slam on brakes. Red lights an dumb drivers.#1 factor here

But the nice part of it is that if you can do it for one month and get a good grade you can get another 30% off your insurance bill and you can remove the snapshot device for the rest of the time they insure you.

[Neverfly]

Well just drive so you won't get a ticket and don't add to their revenue and just maybe keep your insurance rates lower. Speaking of insurance rates do you know what Progressives snapshot monitors to judge what kind of driver you are? How hard you work your breaks. A good driver rarely ever has the make a quick stop.

I actually pretty much do. Used to be a lead foot. Now I'm grandpa.

But you missed the point: The cameras don't always work right. So for anyone to drive like an angel won't necessarily help.

[KilljoyKlown]

I actually pretty much do. Used to be a lead foot. Now I'm grandpa.

But you missed the point: The cameras don't always work right. So for anyone to drive like an angel won't necessarily help.

The only thing cameras do is take pictures, but if the radar or laser speed determination is not working, you must defend yourself. I've never had that problem. But I think there are web sites that give information on where these ticket cameras are, so you can either avoid them or be very careful in those areas. You might also be able to do some research on how best to defend yourself for a wrongfully issued speeding ticket. If you find anything please post it for everyone.

[Neverfly]

The only thing cameras do is take pictures, but if the radar or laser speed determination is not working, you must defend yourself. I've never had that problem. But I think there are web sites that give information on where these ticket cameras are, so you can either avoid them or be very careful in those areas. You might also be able to do some research on how best to defend yourself for a wrongfully issued speeding ticket. If you find anything please post it for everyone.

Try the cameras at intersections for turning right (Where legally allowed to right turn on red). Those are the biggest problem around here. They snap you for turning- at all. Had three dismissed so far.
To avoid the hassle, I just don't do what's LEGAL to do and I wait for the light to change to green. But at a freeway intersection, that can be a long wait.
Which is aggravating because it's not my job to coddle the government any more than it's the governments job to coddle me.

KillJoyKlown I can justify putting safety and security cameras in your bathroom. Think how many people slip and fall in the shower, injure themselves or even render themselves unconscious. You can drown in an inch of water. Or think of the children!

Hey, As long as you don't snort lines on the bathroom counter top, you have nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right? Just wear a bathing suit to shower. You might get an exposure ticket. Be careful changing into one...
There are cameras in the bedroom too. No molestation will happen there!

Now before you say: "They aren't in your houses, c'mon!" it begs the question: They are in our lives- and being justified the same way.
You may be fine with being monitored. I'm Not.
And I think those of us who are not have a say in this country about how many probes we get rammed into our orifaces.

[KilljoyKlown]

Try the cameras at intersections for turning right (Where legally allowed to right turn on red). Those are the biggest problem around here. They snap you for turning- at all. Had three dismissed so far.
To avoid the hassle, I just don't do what's LEGAL to do and I wait for the light to change to green. But at a freeway intersection, that can be a long wait.
Which is aggravating because it's not my job to coddle the government any more than it's the governments job to coddle me.

KillJoyKlown I can justify putting safety and security cameras in your bathroom. Think how many people slip and fall in the shower, injure themselves or even render themselves unconscious. You can drown in an inch of water. Or think of the children!

Hey, As long as you don't snort lines on the bathroom counter top, you have nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right? Just wear a bathing suit to shower. You might get an exposure ticket. Be careful changing into one...
There are cameras in the bedroom too. No molestation will happen there!

Now before you say: "They aren't in your houses, c'mon!" it begs the question: They are in our lives- and being justified the same way.
You may be fine with being monitored. I'm Not.
And I think those of us who are not have a say in this country about how many probes we get rammed into our orifaces.

Come now, your being unreasonable, and I'm sure the left turn snapshots are more than a big pain in the ass for the city too. I'd be very surprised if they weren't working on a solution to that problem as fast as they can. That does sound like a lot of bad press for the city.

However I do take my in home privacy very seriously as most of us do. I just don't see how that comparison would ever apply to the issue at hand. Your grasping for straws now.

[Neverfly]

Come now, your being unreasonable, and I'm sure the left turn snapshots

Right turn.

are more than a big pain in the ass for the city too. I'd be very surprised if they weren't working on a solution to that problem as fast as they can. That does sound like a lot of bad press for the city.

Two years... Must be a hell of a problem!

However I do take my in home privacy very seriously as most of us do. I just don't see how that comparison would ever apply to the issue at hand. Your grasping for straws now.

Not at all. Of course you will say you cannot see the comparison.
In spite of its clarity. You won't see it because you see there being a fundamental difference between there being a camera in one location, but not in another location.

But there really isn't a difference.

You think that because you take in home privacy seriously, that somehow makes a difference. It doesn't. It doesn't matter if you're standing in your kitchen or on a streetcorner.
The only difference is that because you take in home privacy seriously, you do not want cameras in there. It is based on your own wants and tolerances, not based on there being some difference on where you have privacy and where you do not.

Your tolerances as to how far you're willing to allow cameras and monitoring to invade are different than mine.
And that's fine. I'm sure I have different tolerances than you do.

But it seems to me, that the allowances made by monitoring should be geared by those that heave the least tolerance, than the most. We live here too.

[Believe]

There are cameras everywhere! How are we free.

I guess I would ask how this is any different then a police officer in the same area? You probably would not question that, and depending on the area and the time of day the officer may even make you feel safer. The camera is far cheaper and allows more ground to be covered by less people, an upgrade really. These cameras are also placed in public spaces, not in your home or anything.

[Neverfly]

I guess I would ask how this is any different then a police officer in the same area? You probably would not question that, and depending on the area and the time of day the officer may even make you feel safer. The camera is far cheaper and allows more ground to be covered by less people, an upgrade really. These cameras are also placed in public spaces, not in your home or anything.

Safer?
Cameras cannot Act.
And as it is, they are not live monitored, so it's not like if a Mugger was in a park, the camera would "See it and notify police immediately."

A more effective solution is:
Mugger in park get ass handed to him by little old lady with shotgun.

The police can be notified to make the report and call the morgue.

Seems safer to me.

The camera won't do squat. Just watch. And record. maybe grainy evidence later in court. Maybe. If the video quality is at least fair instead of crappy.

[Believe]

Safer?
Cameras cannot Act.
And as it is, they are not live monitored, so it's not like if a Mugger was in a park, the camera would "See it and notify police immediately."

A more effective solution is:
Mugger in park get ass handed to him by little old lady with shotgun.

The police can be notified to make the report and call the morgue.

Seems safer to me.

The camera won't do squat. Just watch. And record. maybe grainy evidence later in court. Maybe. If the video quality is at least fair instead of crappy.

Traffic cams are not monitored but other types are. The police then have one or two units patrolling the area waiting for a call from the central monitor instead of one guy sitting one street corner moving around from place to place.

Do you really think the mugger is going to do his thing right infront of the officer? All he has to do is wait till you go around the corner.

[Neverfly]

Hey, let's be honest: The mugger wouldn't have a thing to do if we, as a society, weren't so police state dependent.

Either way, that's a good argument. But then, they all are. Next thing you know, you can't go anywhere without cameras following you around. Because the arguments are all so good... I mean... we need security, right?

What's really fun is how those that seem fine with the police state crawling up their butt act like there's literally something wrong with someone else not liking it.

What's wrong with you? Don't you LIKE being monitored and feeling warm and Safe?
No, I do not. I'll look after my own damned safety, thanks. We're adults, not children on the playground. I don't need, want nor like a chaperone everywhere I go.

[KilljoyKlown]

Hey, let's be honest: The mugger wouldn't have a thing to do if we, as a society, weren't so police state dependent.

Either way, that's a good argument. But then, they all are. Next thing you know, you can't go anywhere without cameras following you around. Because the arguments are all so good... I mean... we need security, right?

What's really fun is how those that seem fine with the police state crawling up their butt act like there's literally something wrong with someone else not liking it.

What's wrong with you? Don't you LIKE being monitored and feeling warm and Safe?
No, I do not. I'll look after my own damned safety, thanks. We're adults, not children on the playground. I don't need, want nor like a chaperone everywhere I go.

No, but the one time you do need it you may be very glad. Anyway let's hope you never find yourself in that position of need. Also, the majority of pictures those cameras take will never be looked at. They only brows the pictures when they have a need to do so.

[Neverfly]

No, but the one time you do need it you may be very glad. Anyway let's hope you never find yourself in that position of need. Also, the majority of pictures those cameras take will never be looked at. They only brows the pictures when they have a need to do so.

That's not what Believe just said. Said, some are monitored.

And KillJoyKlown, what makes you think that I haven't been in that position of "need?"

I have. And guess what? We all managed just fine without intrusive tactics used to make an agreeable outcome.

I prefer a less intrusive police state. The way I see it, intrusion can only be weighted against the population that has the least tolerance for it, not the most.

You don't weight an army by it's strongest members, but by its weakest.

[KilljoyKlown]

That's not what Believe just said. Said, some are monitored.

And KillJoyKlown, what makes you think that I haven't been in that position of "need?"

I have. And guess what? We all managed just fine without intrusive tactics used to make an agreeable outcome.

I prefer a less intrusive police state. The way I see it, intrusion can only be weighted against the population that has the least tolerance for it, not the most.

You don't weight an army by it's strongest members, but by its weakest.

I'm not going to guess at your street knowledge but I think you haven't really been to close to some very bad people. Even so, a few cameras probably won't make much difference to you at the time. They would only help the police track down the bad people after they did whatever to you and your loved ones.