The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?

[Greatest I am]

The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?

Rhetoric is described as language that is not honest, sincere, or meaningful.

I am French. French has no word that equates to freedom or free will as understood by the English. This makes freedom and land of the free pure rhetorical statements and basically a dishonest statement. These terms are ideas or a reality that are impossible to have.

Freedom and free will then just becomes something that I would name as liberty. Liberty is described as permission especially to go freely within specified limits. That says to me that we are only free to follow the rules of society and those in power.

That being the case, is land of the free a true and meaningful expression?

Would it be more accurate to say land of liberty to follow the rules?

Free will is defined as freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.

Free will translates to being your own master and not having your will hampered by any outside influence not of your choosing.

Does any law or divine command negate free will, freedom of choice and the notion of a ---- Land of the free?

Regards
DL

[Tiassa]

I am French. French has no word that equates to freedom or free will as understood by the English.

Do the French have a word that equals society beyond a club, church, or labor union? Because that aspect of "the land of the free", that it is, in fact, a society, happens to be absent from your consideration. This—

Would it be more accurate to say land of liberty to follow the rules?

—is as close as you get.

Certes, many Americans—you know, the ones who describe their nation as "the land of the free"?—recognize that there are legitimate questions about the truth of such statements. It is a matter of degrees in a collective human experience. We have a saying in our legal and political institutions: The Constitution is not a suicide pact. Within a society, a collective that is not willfully choosing to destroy itself and its people—

Free will is defined as freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.

Free will translates to being your own master and not having your will hampered by any outside influence not of your choosing.

—your definition is a practical impossibility.

Luckily, most Americans are capable of understanding this, either inherently or consciously. I would prefer the latter, as I think it would help our politics and justice, but for now I'll take the inherent. We see in our Tea Party movement what happens when people think society should be subordinate to the individual, without recognizing the value of other individuals.

Does any law or divine command negate free will, freedom of choice and the notion of a ---- Land of the free?

The fact of society impinges on free will. The idea that other people are not mere things to be manipulated and exploited for one's own satisfaction disrupts absolute free will.

[arauca]

The land of the free. Fact or meaningless rhetoric?

Rhetoric is described as language that is not honest, sincere, or meaningful.


Regards
DL

Finally I agree with you on something . American scream freedom , but I always ask freedom of what ? They have so many laws , there is no room for freedom , " freedom within the law" any way the word freedom and law contradict each other .

[spidergoat]

We are free to be Nazis, I don't think that's allowed in France.

[Greatest I am]

Do the French have a word that equals society beyond a club, church, or labor union? Because that aspect of "the land of the free", that it is, in fact, a society, happens to be absent from your consideration. This—

Peuple.

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/Peuple

—is as close as you get.

Certes, many Americans—you know, the ones who describe their nation as "the land of the free"?—recognize that there are legitimate questions about the truth of such statements. It is a matter of degrees in a collective human experience. We have a saying in our legal and political institutions: The Constitution is not a suicide pact. Within a society, a collective that is not willfully choosing to destroy itself and its people—

I agree that some do. Not the majority from what I can see.

Note how few recognize that they live in an oligarchy and not a democracy.

—your definition is a practical impossibility.

Luckily, most Americans are capable of understanding this, either inherently or consciously.

See above.

I would prefer the latter, as I think it would help our politics and justice, but for now I'll take the inherent. We see in our Tea Party movement what happens when people think society should be subordinate to the individual, without recognizing the value of other individuals.



The fact of society impinges on free will. The idea that other people are not mere things to be manipulated and exploited for one's own satisfaction disrupts absolute free will.

No argument.

Have you seen the latest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn6Qzrbbeg8

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

We are free to be Nazis, I don't think that's allowed in France.

I don't know.
I do think insanity is allowed in France though so wanting to be a Nazis is also likely allowed.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Finally I agree with you on something . American scream freedom , but I always ask freedom of what ? They have so many laws , there is no room for freedom , " freedom within the law" any way the word freedom and law contradict each other .

About time you start thinking better.

Regards
DL

[spidergoat]

Neo-Nazi groups are banned. But for the most part, I do think people are actually more free (from police interference at least) in Europe. Social pressures may be greater to conform though. I had some Au Pair friends, and they thought the phrase "land of the free" was a big joke.

[Greatest I am]

Neo-Nazi groups are banned. But for the most part, I do think people are actually more free (from police interference at least) in Europe. Social pressures may be greater to conform though. I had some Au Pair friends, and they thought the phrase "land of the free" was a big joke.

More of a shame than a joke for those who believe rhetoric.

Regards
DL

[spidergoat]

It's kind of a mixed bag. At least we don't have to pay a tax to support churches.

[arauca]

About time you start thinking better.

Regards
DL

Do you mean every thing you say it is right, now we part again

[Tero]

Guns and religion. American freedom.

[Tero]

There's also the freedom of states to pass wacky and racist laws to protect white church going heteros. Like me, only I don't go to church.

[Greatest I am]

It's kind of a mixed bag. At least we don't have to pay a tax to support churches.

We all have to pay the share that they do not.

Strange that some pay churches to keep them religiously ignorant.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Do you mean every thing you say it is right, now we part again

Not at all but I think it right if it remains un-refuted.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

There's also the freedom of states to pass wacky and racist laws to protect white church going heteros. Like me, only I don't go to church.

I noticed you were too bright from your other post to be a church goer.

Regards
DL