Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 77 of 77

Thread: Aether Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Every grad student, every PhD candidate would sell parts of his anatomy for a real breakthrough which would actually reveal something new.
    Not just any part...

  2. #62
    The two slit experiment, one particle at a time, is still an excellent way to demonstrate that there are different opinions about what each individual particle is interfering with. Presently, science believes that the individual particles are interfering with themselves.

    http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_ce...res/lec13.html

    ...so what are the individual particles interfering with? apparently, themselves.

    Another interpretation, my interpretation, is that the wave-functions that describe the path through each slit, are waves that are interfering with each other. When one slit is blocked, that wave-function vanishes, and there is no interference.

  3. #63
    Valued Senior Member
    Posts
    2,773
    Take a look at, Pilot-Wave Theory.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyMe View Post
    Take a look at, Pilot-Wave Theory.
    Empty wave-functions are interesting. But I'm not too keen on hidden variable theories.

    I did want to make the comment that trying to get time dilation (and therefore a gravity field) by generating a rapid and repeated frequency shift might not seem very likely. But if ALL observed phenomena (light, gravity, particles, space-time intervals, etc...) are just manifestations of wave-functions, then expecting a generated frequency shift to result in time dilation is actually reasonable. Why? Because there is nothing else down there except wave-functions.

  5. #65
    The physics community doesn't seem to be catching on that physics, space, time, energy, motion, gravity, and quantum mechanics are just different facets of, and interactions between wave-functions, and the phase angles of wave-functions. Emitting light of frequency f is the quickest way to generate a wave-function Psi = e^i[i(kx + ky + kz - wt)].

    While theoretical physicists are creating mathematical mostrosities trying to get as far away from common sense as possible, everyone seems to have missed that which is easily testable. Gravitational time dilation is intimately related to gravity itself. We can't curve space-time without using unavailabe amounts of mass-energy. But we suspect that space-time itself is made of wave function phase angles. Perhaps it's not immediately obvious that gravitational redshift and gravitational time dilation are intimately related. From that vantage, one might propose a frequency shift experiment. Build an emitter that emits frequency shift: f(t) = [df/dt]t+f_0, from a planar emitter, 400 to 800THz every microsecond.

    Question: time dilation causes frequency shift. Can a frequency shift experiment get back time dilation? If time dilation is observed, can it induce a gravity field.

  6. #66
    Arguing with a crank - useless AlexG's Avatar
    Posts
    3,853
    The physics community doesn't seem to be catching on that physics, space, time, energy, motion, gravity, and quantum mechanics are just different facets of, and interactions between wave-functions, and the phase angles of wave-functions. Emitting light of frequency f is the quickest way to generate a wave-function Psi = e^i[i(kx + ky + kz - wt)].
    They didn't have your advantage in being told by both God and Aliens.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    They didn't have your advantage in being told by both God and Aliens.
    Oh!
    No worries. I got to see what physics looks like far in the future. You'll get there, eventually. I figure it will take about 500 years before you have enough evidence to justify the frequency shift/time dilation experiment.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    The physics community doesn't seem to be catching on that physics, space, time, energy, motion, gravity, and quantum mechanics are just different facets of, and interactions between wave-functions, and the phase angles of wave-functions. Emitting light of frequency f is the quickest way to generate a wave-function Psi = e^i[i(kx + ky + kz - wt)].
    You clearly have no working understanding of wavefunctions, so you're not in a place to tell anyone, especially someone in the mathematical physics research community like myself, what we do or don't know.

    If you honestly think you're getting your information from a god then you have absolutely no right to be telling people what is or isn't true because you demonstrably have lost touch with reality. Seriously, when you talk to god it's called praying, when he/she/it/they talk to you it's called schizophrenia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    While theoretical physicists are creating mathematical mostrosities trying to get as far away from common sense as possible, everyone seems to have missed that which is easily testable.
    No, theoretical physicists are trying to construct viable realistic models of reality from evidence and reason. Any person in the research community who used the argument "God told me" would be laughed out of their department for being crazy. Evidence and reason, they are the pillars which hold up the entire structure of science and you provide neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    Gravitational time dilation is intimately related to gravity itself. We can't curve space-time without using unavailabe amounts of mass-energy.
    For which you have no evidence but the voice in your head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    But we suspect that space-time itself is made of wave function phase angles.
    Are you using the 'royal we' now or are you talking about the voices in your head?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    Question: time dilation causes frequency shift. Can a frequency shift experiment get back time dilation? If time dilation is observed, can it induce a gravity field.
    Answer : No, as demonstrated by things like Doppler shifts. And no matter how loud the voices in your head shout, that isn't going to change.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaNumeric View Post
    You clearly have no working understanding of wavefunctions, so you're not in a place to tell anyone, especially someone in the mathematical physics research community like myself, what we do or don't know.

    If you honestly think you're getting your information from a god then you have absolutely no right to be telling people what is or isn't true because you demonstrably have lost touch with reality. Seriously, when you talk to god it's called praying, when he/she/it/they talk to you it's called schizophrenia.
    No, theoretical physicists are trying to construct viable realistic models of reality from evidence and reason. Any person in the research community who used the argument "God told me" would be laughed out of their department for being crazy. Evidence and reason, they are the pillars which hold up the entire structure of science and you provide neither.
    For which you have no evidence but the voice in your head.
    Are you using the 'royal we' now or are you talking about the voices in your head?
    Answer : No, as demonstrated by things like Doppler shifts. And no matter how loud the voices in your head shout, that isn't going to change.
    You are really invested in your god bashing strategy. Good luck with that.

    One slit or two? Let's look at the double slit experiment. There exists equipment that can fire one electron or one photon at a time. When two slits are open, the particles, when they are fired at the two slits, they land on the back wall with an interference pattern. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...,r:9,s:0,i:107

    If you fire a bunch of particles at the same time, it's no big surprise that they behave like a wave-front. But if you fire them individually, they also interfere as if they were a wave. Why is that? What does one photon have to interfere with? Itself? Then why does the interference pattern go away when there is only one slit?

    My point: it makes more sense that the wave-function itself exists and passes through the slit(s) even when no particle is fired. As long as the slit(s) are open, the pathway exists as a wave-function. When two or more slits are open, the paths interfere like waves.

    What is your interpretation?

  10. #70
    Arguing with a crank - useless AlexG's Avatar
    Posts
    3,853
    You are really invested in your god bashing strategy
    If you're claiming divine revelation,( and you are) this should be in a religion thread.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    If you're claiming divine revelation,( and you are) this should be in a religion thread.
    Like I was telling Aqueous ID, I'm not claiming divine authority. I just want to discuss these ideas. The list includes:
    • Wave function solutions to the Schrodinger equation represent a real phenomena of nature that behaves like wave-functions.
    • Wave functions are the building blocks of the luminiferous aether.
    • Space itself (a.k.a. the zero point energy quantum vacuum), is made out of wave-functions.
    • The energy of the big bang E_bb plus the negative energy of gravity, -E_bb are best described by the zero-energy universe hypothesis.
    • Particles of matter are quantum systems. All quantum systems are interconnected via the space-time continuum.
    • The space-time continuum is a negative energy image of the big bang. The positive image is a frequency spectrum of photons; the negative image is time dilation.
    • Gravity propulsion drives work by emitting a frequency shift. The emitted frequency shift induces a time dilation image in the local space-time continuum.

    If I sound like I'm preaching, it's only because I'm very excited about these ideas. OK, maybe I am pushing the frequency shift idea really intensely. You gotta run the experiment. Be prepared to measure an artificial gravity field induced by the frequency shift. Don't do it because I asked the aliens how their propulsion works. Do it because black holes frequency shift light described by gravitaitonal redshift; do it because natural phenomena is reversible, sometimes.

  12. #72
    I have a question: how do you "emit" a frequency shift?
    And how do you "dilate time" when time isn't made out of anything? I mean, time dilation is an artifact of transformations between coordinate systems which are in relative motion.

    So how do you think "dilating time" can be achieved such that motion is the result, when it's the other way around?
    And what experiment do you have in mind?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by arfa brane View Post
    I have a question: how do you "emit" a frequency shift?
    So how do you think "dilating time" can be achieved such that motion is the result, when it's the other way around?
    And what experiment do you have in mind?
    arfa brane,
    Imagine an ordinary non spinning, uncharged black-hole. Now imagine, from a safe distance, pointing a 400THz laser directly at its center. As the laser light falls towards the event horizon, the gravity of the black hole blueshifts the photons of the laser. If the photons achieve a frequency of 800THz before reaching the event horizon, then we can use the information given below.
    A common equation used to determine gravitational time dilation is derived from the Schwarzschild metric, which describes spacetime in the vicinity of a non-rotating massive spherically-symmetric object. The equation is:

    t_0 = t_f \sqrt{1 - \frac{2GM}{rc^2}} = t_f \sqrt{1 - \frac{r_0}{r}} , where

    t_0 is the proper time between events A and B for a slow-ticking observer within the gravitational field,
    t_f is the coordinate time between events A and B for a fast-ticking observer at an arbitrarily large distance from the massive object (this assumes the fast-ticking observer is using Schwarzschild coordinates, a coordinate system where a clock at infinite distance from the massive sphere would tick at one second per second of coordinate time, while closer clocks would tick at less than that rate),
    G is the gravitational constant,
    M is the mass of the object creating the gravitational field,
    r is the radial coordinate of the observer (which is analogous to the classical distance from the center of the object, but is actually a Schwarzschild coordinate),
    c is the speed of light, and
    r_0 = 2GM/c^2 is the Schwarzschild radius of M. If a mass collapses so that its surface lies at less than this radial coordinate (or in other words covers an area of less than 4 \pi G^2 M^2 / c^4), then the object exists within a black hole.
    Let's say the laser emitted laser light for t_f = 1 nanosecond in the fast ticking frame. (400x10^12 cycles/sec)*(10^-9sec) = 400,000 cycles of electromagnetic radiation that are headed down to some detector deep in the gravity well of the black hole.

    400,000 cycles traverse the blackhole radii. They started at t_0/t_f = 1, fell to t_0/t_f = 1.1, 1.2, ...1.9,and 2.0 where 400,000 cycles were finally detected by a slower ticking frame; t_0/t_f = 2 which means that this proper frame ticks once for every two ticks of the proper time. The proper time detector detects 400,000 cycles/0.5ns = 800THz. It is true that every photon of that laser started with energy E = hf = Planck constant * 400THz, and ended with E = h(800THz). What caught my eye is that 400,000 cycles traveled from fast ticking frame to proper frame, without gaining or losing a single cycle.

    And how do you "dilate time" when time isn't made out of anything? I mean, time dilation is an artifact of transformations between coordinate systems which are in relative motion.
    I believe that an aether does exist. It's not made of nitrous oxide molecules or point-particles of any kind. It's not made of hyper-dimensional marbles stacked in 26 dimensions. It's simpler than that. This luminiferous light bearing aether looks like this, and http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...r:1,s:40,i:166, and this. I think that the the four forces, yes even gravity/space-time curvature, is made of naturally occurring wave-functions. The Equivalence Principle reinforces the notion that gravity, centrifugal and acceleration pseudo-forces all have a similar mechanism. It's bad enough that I ask for a luminiferous aether made of naturally occurring wave-functions; I will also ask that this wave-function aether be able to to length contract and time dilate the aether field between two massive objects, so as to uphold relativity.

    If the aether exists, and is made of wave-functions/cycles/radians that obey c = 1/sqrt{epsilon*mu}, then I want to try to induce a gravity field generator experiment by emitting a wave-function that looks like gravity.

    Gravity Generator Experiment using frequency shift
    I know that black holes will frequency shift light, from f_i to f_f, because of their strong gravity. I want to try this in reverse. I want to emit a planar E&M wave with a frequency that changes linearly, from 400 to 800THz. The linear equation would be f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0. Special care should be taken to minimize discontinuities in the phase.

    Since this kind of frequency shift performance is not possible right now, then I would try it this way. I would break the linear frequency shift into 64 frequency steps. Each frequency "step" would be emitted by a GaAlAs LED (light emitting diode). Using a GaAs wafer, I would create groups of 64 LEDs, repeating horizontally and vertically across the die. There would have to be some circuitry to drive each LED so that all LED's of the same color would flash simultaneously, then the next color, then the next. When the wafer is completed, I would attach wires for clock/power, and then dip the wafer in an acrylic block, to protect it from mechanical stresses.

    The finished product will emit planes waves that step through each of 64 frequencies. If it works, it will mimic the naturally occurring wave functions that implement gravity and gravitational time-dilation. Over several repetition cycles, a wave function will form that progressively increases the frequency (gravitational time dilation) and decreases the wavelength (curvature of space-time).
    Last edited by Mazulu; 06-01-12 at 02:06 PM. Reason: One of the pics is from a Marxist website which I don't support.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu
    The finished product will emit planes waves that step through each of 64 frequencies. If it works, it will mimic the naturally occurring wave functions that implement gravity and gravitational time-dilation.
    Hmmm. So you think gravity is a function of plane EM waves, and you can "dilate time" somehow by emitting different frequencies at different times?

    It's just that I learned that gravity is a function of (large amounts of) matter, which has "mass". Nothing to do with emitting light. I think you'll find that's more or less the consensus, here (and in most schools).
    Over several repetition cycles, a wave function will form that progressively increases the frequency (gravitational time dilation) and decreases the wavelength (curvature of space-time).
    I would think that instead of a "wavefunction", you'll just have light at different frequencies. Matter is what curves space, so your wafer will curve the space around it by orders of magnitude more than the emitted light. This is because E = mc2.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by arfa brane View Post
    Hmmm. So you think gravity is a function of plane EM waves, and you can "dilate time" somehow by emitting different frequencies at different times?
    Not exactly. It's hard to explain, but here goes. Where did the energy of the big bang come from? E_bb is a lot of energy just to appear out of nothingness. I believe in the Zero Energy Universe hypothesis, which says that the negative energy of gravity plus the energy of the big bang add to zero. I go one step further. Big bang energy began as light, which is something very real. Light has properties of light such as frequency, permittivity and permeability of free space and wavelength. To use a metaphor, E_bb is a positive image of the full range of photon frequencies; the space-time continuum is the negative image of time dilation and curvature. I believe that the space-time continuum is a real object that obeys the Einstein equations. As a real object, my plan is to emit frequency shift, repeatedly. The frequency shift would induce a mirror image within the space-time continuum, and produce a gravity field.

    Here is another metaphor. Curvature of space-time is sometimes depicted with a bowling ball sitting on top of a blanket. What I want to do is induce a curvature in the blanket without the presence of a planet, star or black hole. I want to curve the "blanket" by using emitted frequency shift.


    It's just that I learned that gravity is a function of (large amounts of) matter, which has "mass". Nothing to do with emitting light. I think you'll find that's more or less the consensus, here (and in most schools).I would think that instead of a "wavefunction", you'll just have light at different frequencies. Matter is what curves space, so your wafer will curve the space around it by orders of magnitude more than the emitted light. This is because E = mc2.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu
    Where did the energy of the big bang come from? E_bb is a lot of energy just to appear out of nothingness.
    Then perhaps one is required to adjust one's notion of "nothingness".
    Big bang energy began as light, which is something very real.
    I don't think that's accurate. Photons appeared at some stage, but so did quarks and gluons, maybe a whole zoo of exotic particles. I mean, if you're talking about the first few attoseconds say, QM allows for a lot of possibilities over a short amount of time.

    But as the energy density decreased, everything 'decayed' into a more probable state. That's a very rough description.
    The frequency shift would induce a mirror image within the space-time continuum, and produce a gravity field.
    That's a kind of meaningless statement. What's this "mirror image". How do you know spacetime is a continuum? Why isn't mass-energy the only thing that produces gravity?

  17. #77

    Research tip

    If there was a genuine aether that matter operates in, then it would elude detection by anything made of matter. So added conventional testing and theorising will probably not turn up anything, as you already know.

    There are some quirky bits in QM and other theories, which could be looked at, but these are the only likely clues.

    The study of a background force such as aether has to be approached by thought experiments and verified by instruments later.
    Last edited by Gerhard Kemmerer; 06-14-12 at 04:20 AM. Reason: add on

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Similar Threads

  1. By Reiku in forum Pseudoscience Archive
    Last Post: 02-24-12, 09:31 PM
    Replies: 48
  2. By Anita Meyer in forum Pseudoscience Archive
    Last Post: 12-27-11, 10:36 AM
    Replies: 1003
  3. By Mr.Spock in forum General Science & Technology
    Last Post: 11-13-11, 11:07 PM
    Replies: 6
  4. By kwhilborn in forum Pseudoscience Archive
    Last Post: 09-16-11, 08:12 PM
    Replies: 33

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •