Thread: Aether Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

1. Originally Posted by khan
Ronald Mallett abandoned the idea of using light to warp space-time...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_...achine_project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Mallett#Objections
I have to applaud Ronald Mallett for trying to build a time machine via simulated frame dragging. It was certainly worth a shot. Personally, I don't see how a time machine is possible because it potentially violates causality. Do you know if Mallett used atomic clocks inside/outside his apparatus? Do you know if he measured the acceleration of gravity when his machine was on versus when it was off? One might hope to induce some gravitational time dilation which doesn't create any causality violations. I'm not well versed in frame dragging, so I don't know if ring lasers can induce time dilation.

In contrast, the idea of emitting frequency shift is intended to induce some time dilation. For a frequency shift from 400THz to 800THz every microsecond, the maximum amount of time dilation across a distance of one light microsecond, 300meters, would be T_d = 2. If time dilation is induced, then a gravity field should follow. As an example,
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation
In an accelerated box, the equation with respect to an arbitrary base observer is T_d = e^{gh/c^2}, where
T_d is the total time dilation at a distant position,
g is the acceleration of the box as measured by the base observer, and
h is the "vertical" distance between the observers.

When gh is much smaller than c^2, the linear "weak field" approximation T_d = 1 + gh/c^2 may also be used.
Using the weak field approximation, T_d = 2 = 1+gh/c^2. If h = 300 meters, the length of one microsecond of frequency shift, then g = c^2/h = 9x10^16/300m= 3x10^14m/s^2.

I didn't expect to have to use the strong field calculation. The point I was trying to make was that if a time dilation occurs, then a gravity field, g will occur too. Time dilation fields lead to gravity fields, not time travel.

2. Originally Posted by Mazulu
Warp drive and gravity drive systems from an alien spacecraft have never been tested at a university physics department, therefore, alien spacecrafts do not exist.
No, you're making a common mistake of logic there. To give an example people are more familiar with consider atheism. Atheism is the rejection of the claim "A god exists". This is different from atheism saying "No god exists".

Disbelieving something due to lack of evidence is not only scientific practice but it's something people do all the time. Saying "I reject that claim you make on the grounds of insufficient evidence" is not the same as saying "That claim is false". The former asserts nothing, the latter does.

For your example, alien space craft, it is entirely reasonable to say "I do not believe the claim that aliens exist". It's the logical default until such time as sufficient evidence is presented. It's possible to simultaneously reject both a statement and it's negation because you can not believe either of them simultaneously. This is not the same as saying they are both false (which is a logical impossibility). I personally reject the claims of theists that gods exist and I reject the claims aliens exist. However, I believe it is highly likely aliens exist somewhere in the universe, I just don't believe it to be certain.

I, and anyone with half an ounce of rationality, reject your claims about photon frequency shifting forming gravitational fields. I reject your claims if wavefunctions are real then all sorts of crazy and wonderful pieces of technology certainly follow. I reject your claims about how the universe works. All of those I reject because you cannot provide any evidence for any of them.

However, in terms of your claims about frequency shifts forming gravitational fields I not only reject it, I state it to be false precisely because there is evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Mazulu
The whole point of synthesizing and emitting a frequency shift is to see if it can warp space-time, induce a gravitational potential energy, create an acceleration field. It is not as easy as you might think. Some scientist might come along and generate a poor quality frequency shift, and it won't work. Then, the physics community will scoff: SEE! IT DOESN'T WORK!!! It's all about QUALITY.
Originally Posted by Mazulu
By the way, I chose to make space out of wave-functions so that I could use light to energize the wave-functions that already exist.
You don't actually know anything about wavefunctions in physics do you? You're just throwing around buzzwords you think sound impressive and which you know get people's attention. You don't have any reasoned argument or logic to justify your position, you just have "Well it might be possible". Yes, it might but you're going further than that, saying if wavefunctions are real then necessarily a load of things follow from that. You have zero reason to make such claims, you have zero evidence. In some cases there's evidence against you. In those cases you've already started making excuses, like 'poor quality frequency shifts'. Tuning lasers and inducing frequency changes in tiny vibrating systems is the stuff of current research, this is an active area of work due to applications in telecommunications and high speed computing. Things don't behave as you claim.

I cannot believe you have formal science education at university level. If you really do then it's a horrible statement about the university you went to if you have managed to spend years studying science and end up with the terrible grasp of it's methodology you have shown here. You do your lecturers a great disservice.

3. Originally Posted by AlphaNumeric
However, in terms of your claims about frequency shifts forming gravitational fields I not only reject it, I state it to be false precisely because there is evidence to the contrary.
What evidence?

You don't actually know anything about wavefunctions in physics do you? You're just throwing around buzzwords you think sound impressive and which you know get people's attention.
The Schrodinger equation is a time dependent differential equation, the sum of kinetic + potential energy. Wave-functions are solutions to the Schrodinger equation; wave-function are the complete description, everything that can be known about that quantum system. Using operators, we can get the energy, momentum, spin and position eigenstates of the quantum system.

You don't have any reasoned argument or logic to justify your position, you just have "Well it might be possible". Yes, it might but you're going further than that, saying if wavefunctions are real then necessarily a load of things follow from that. You have zero reason to make such claims, you have zero evidence. In some cases there's evidence against you. In those cases you've already started making excuses, like 'poor quality frequency shifts'.
I didn't design the laws of physics. I am only acknowledging the observation that FM frequency towers don't produce wormholes. I also acknowledge that a real gravity field caused by a black hole, star or planet has to exert a frequency shift, or a change in momentum (light falls in a gravity field), for every possible frequency that may pass through that region of space. True gravity has to exert its gravitational pull on every photon, every photon's frequency (energy E= hf) and every photon's wavelength (momentum p = hk). By trying to run the process in reverse and trying to get back a gravity field by frequency shifting, I expect to get a very weak effect (even if the frequency shift wave quality is high).

Tuning lasers and inducing frequency changes in tiny vibrating systems is the stuff of current research, this is an active area of work due to applications in telecommunications and high speed computing. Things don't behave as you claim.
I looked at tuning lasers as a way to generate a frequency shift. But it takes a few minutes just to change from one frequency to the next. That is way to slow.

4. AlphaNumeric,
I think it was the double slit experiment that convinced me that space was made out of waves (wave-functions). When two slits are open, photons or electrons are fired at the slits and will land on a backwall, with an interference pattern. But when one photon or electron is fired at a time, they still land on the backwall with an interference pattern. So what is each particle interfering with? It just seemed obvious that the pathway that the particles take are the interfering waves. The pathway(s) to the slit and the back wall will always be there as long as the slits are open. Even if particles are fired at the slits, on particle every Saturday at noon, the pathways are what is interfering; two slits = two pathways that interfere.

Do you know what a time dilation field is? I can place an atomic clock, one at every point in my field. Doing this, I can measure the time dilation between any two points in my field.

What happens if I attach 10 atomic clocks at 1 meter intervals upon a tower? Clock 0 is at z=0 (ground level), clock 1 is at z=+1m, clock 2 is at z = +2 meters, etc... I should be able to measure the gravity of the earth as a time dilation field. In theory, I could have a tower that extends into space, very far from the earth's surface. I could attach atomic clocks all the way up. The clocks at the top of the tower, very far away from the earth's surface, would tick a little faster than the clocks at the surface. I can use the Schwartzhilde metric to calculate the gravitational time dilation of the earth. I could, in theory, measure the time dilation field as a function of elevation.

t_0 = t_f sqrt {1 - GM/rc^2}
t_0 is proper time,
t_f is the coord time,
G grav constant,
c is the speed of light.

The important thing to remember is that for a time dilation field measured by atomic clocks that don't move (relative to each other), then if there is a measureable time dilation present, I have a gravity field.

A synthesized frequency shift attempts to induce a time dilation which, in turn, should induce a gravity field.

5. Didn't you say that aliens had warp drive technology but wouldn't tell you how it worked?

Then there was another post on PhysForum where you claimed god told you how it worked.

6. Originally Posted by AlexG
Didn't you say that aliens had warp drive technology but wouldn't tell you how it worked?

Then there was another post on PhysForum where you claimed god told you how it worked.
If you wanted to know how to build a gravity field generator, it is perfectly reasonable to ask the Creator of the universe. The answer I got was: reproduce a time dilation field using frequency shifting. Once you induce time dilation, then acceleration fields will follow naturally. Perform an experiment to obtain proof of concept. If it works, refine your technique. To anyone with an ounce of common sense, this is a perfectly reasonable approach.

7. it is perfectly reasonable to ask the Creator of the universe. The answer I got was...

Wouldn't it be more productive to learn physics?

8. It's gonna take years to explain it using full physics formalism. But yes, alien spaceships use reverse frequency shifting of the form f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0 to generate localized gravity fields around their spaceships.

If you don't see it, or even the possibility, then try pulling your head out of the dark place it's in.

9. Deleted

10. Originally Posted by Mazulu
It's gonna take years to explain it using full physics formalism. But yes, alien spaceships use reverse frequency shifting of the form f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0 to generate localized gravity fields around their spaceships.

If you don't see it, or even the possibility, then try pulling your head out of the dark place it's in.
So god and aliens are whispering in your ear.

Shouldn't this move over to UFOs?

Or maybe pseudoscience, but I don't think it rises to that standard.

In either case, the nonsense is becoming deep and thick.

11. Originally Posted by Mazulu
It's gonna take years to explain it using full physics formalism. But yes, alien spaceships use reverse frequency shifting of the form f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0 to generate localized gravity fields around their spaceships.

Oh, I SOOOO want to get you in a darkroom with a single swinging lamp...

12. With very high end electronics, you could get a very precise frequency shift (400 to 800THz) with very little phase noise. If you could generate very precise frequency shifts, you would generate strong acceleration fields; as strong as a black hole, strong enough to implement an Alcubierre drive. However, such precise frequency shifts are only possible in the vacuum of space. Frequency shift propulsion suffers increasing phase noise in an atmosphere, where the speed of light is slower. In extreme weather, fog or dust, the frequency shift intensity can be blocked by particulates, leading to a loss of acceleration field intensity. If you don't know the exact speed of light for atmospheric conditions, then you can't reduce your phase noise below a certain level; as a result, warp drive propulsion is most likely not possible within a planet's atmosphere. In cases of very poor visibility, gravity propulsion is not reliable.

Conclusion: gravity drives are not a reliable form a propulsion for up close military encounters. What good is an armada of spacecrafts, if they can be prevented from flying with a simple cloud of dust.

13. Originally Posted by Neverfly

Oh, I SOOOO want to get you in a darkroom with a single swinging lamp...
Don't forget the cigarette smoke.

14. The double slit experiment is what convinces me that space is made out of wave-functions. When just one photon or one electron is fired at a time, at the slits, an interference pattern is produced. The idea that the particle goes through both slits sounds like a misinterpretation, at least to me.

Here is my interpretation. The pathways that the particle takes, as it travels from the emission point, through the slit(s), to the back plane, is itself a wave function. The particles just follow the wave function pathway wherever it leads. As long as we don't know which slit the particle goes through, the wave-function pathways can exist and can interfere with each other.

My interpretation is that the pathways are wave-functions. These wave-functions really do exist as a natural phenomena. These pathway wave-functions exist as if waiting for a particle, a photon or electron or some other quantum particle to travel along its pathway. By extrapolation, these wave-function pathways must exist everywhere in space. If that is true, then perhaps these wave-function pathways are a convenient mechanism for gravity.

I dropped my physics book on the floor, which is itself an experiment in gravity. The loud bang was a measurable result. But gravity can also be measured with atomic clocks. Most people are not aware that a gravity field is also a time dilation field. Using lots of atomic clocks, I can measure the flow or pace of time at several fixed points in space. By taking the ratio of a time interval between two points in space, I can obtain the time dilation between those two points. General relativity predicts, and GPS measurements confirm, that gravity fields produce gravitational time dilation. If there is a time dilation between two points, point A and point B, in a time dilation field, then we can calculate the time dilation between those two points. Let us say that the time dilation between points A and B is t_AB =2.

As an experiment, let us say that a one picosecond (10^-12 seconds) burst of 400THz (400x10^12 cycles per second) is emitted from point A and detected at point B. That means that, 400x10^12 cycles per second *10^-12 sec = 400 cycles are emitted from point A. It follows that 400 cycles will be detected at B. But at point B, all 400 cycles are detected in 0.5 picoseconds, because at point B, time is slower. So the detector detects 400 cycles/0.5x10^-12 sec = 800 THz.

The wave-function for a photon is Psi(x,t) = Ae^(kx -wt) = cos(kx-wt) + i sin(kx - wt). I said that wave-functions are a real phenomena of nature. I also said that I transmitted 400 cycles from A and received 400 cycles at B.

I am trying to get you to see that the wave-function pathways that exist everywhere in space are just ... cycles. Space is made of cycles of wave-functions. That is the whole reason for looking at frequency shift as a means to generate gravitational time dilation. By generating a frequency shift from 400 THz to 800 THz every microsecond, I am trying to induce a time dilation pathway, across a distance of 10^-6 sec *3x10^8 m/s = 300 meters. When done rapidly and repeatedly, the cycles that are the pathways that make up space, will begin to dominate, and time dilation will occur within the 300 meter span of the frequency shift. When time dilation is induced, a gravity field will occur.

That is how you build a gravity field propulsion generator.

15. Originally Posted by Mazulu
AlphaNumeric,
I think it was the double slit experiment that convinced me that space was made out of waves (wave-functions). When two slits are open, photons or electrons are fired at the slits and will land on a backwall, with an interference pattern. But when one photon or electron is fired at a time, they still land on the backwall with an interference pattern. So what is each particle interfering with? It just seemed obvious that the pathway that the particles take are the interfering waves. The pathway(s) to the slit and the back wall will always be there as long as the slits are open. Even if particles are fired at the slits, on particle every Saturday at noon, the pathways are what is interfering; two slits = two pathways that interfere.
You have flawed logic. It's possible to explain the double slit experiment without saying "Space is made of wave function", rather than there's a wave function associated to a quantum object and it obeys the behaviour described by quantum mechanics. As such the observed phenomenon doesn't necessarily imply what you claim it does as there is an alternative explanation.

Originally Posted by Mazulu
Do you know what a time dilation field is? I can place an atomic clock, one at every point in my field. Doing this, I can measure the time dilation between any two points in my field.

What happens if I attach 10 atomic clocks at 1 meter intervals upon a tower? Clock 0 is at z=0 (ground level), clock 1 is at z=+1m, clock 2 is at z = +2 meters, etc... I should be able to measure the gravity of the earth as a time dilation field. In theory, I could have a tower that extends into space, very far from the earth's surface. I could attach atomic clocks all the way up. The clocks at the top of the tower, very far away from the earth's surface, would tick a little faster than the clocks at the surface. I can use the Schwartzhilde metric to calculate the gravitational time dilation of the earth. I could, in theory, measure the time dilation field as a function of elevation.

t_0 = t_f sqrt {1 - GM/rc^2}
t_0 is proper time,
t_f is the coord time,
G grav constant,
c is the speed of light.

The important thing to remember is that for a time dilation field measured by atomic clocks that don't move (relative to each other), then if there is a measureable time dilation present, I have a gravity field.

A synthesized frequency shift attempts to induce a time dilation which, in turn, should induce a gravity field.
Your last sentence doesn't follow from the rest. Yes, time dilation effects manifest themselves in some instances as changes in frequency but not all changes in frequency are time dilation products. All humans are mammals but not all mammals are humans.

We can cause frequency shifts in photons without any gravitational field, illustrating the negation of your claim.

Originally Posted by Mazulu
If you wanted to know how to build a gravity field generator, it is perfectly reasonable to ask the Creator of the universe.
There's no evidence the universe has a creator and certainly that it would communicate with any human. Therefore it isn't 'perfectly reasonable' to 'ask the creator'. For millenia mankind prayed to a variety of creators for guidance and knowledge and we accomplished very little. Once The Enlightenment happened and people realsied the way to get answers to questions is to seek them out properly, through hard work and time, science took off.

I raise an eyebrow at anyone who gives such a reply and especially when they follow it with :

Originally Posted by Mazulu
The answer I got was: reproduce a time dilation field using frequency shifting. Once you induce time dilation, then acceleration fields will follow naturally.
So you haven't reached your conclusions through proper research, experiments, model development and effort, you've been told how the universe works by a voice in your head.

There's nothing to be gained by any rational scientific person discussing things with you. If you really hear a voice or get told things by 'the creator' then you're not rational, you're insane.

Originally Posted by Mazulu
Perform an experiment to obtain proof of concept. If it works, refine your technique. To anyone with an ounce of common sense, this is a perfectly reasonable approach.
Yes, that is a perfectly reasonable approach, shame you haven't followed it. You've been told something by a voice in your head and you've decided to accept it, ignoring evidence, logic and sanity.

Before I thought you were naive. Now I see it's much much worse.

16. Originally Posted by AlphaNumeric
You have flawed logic. It's possible to explain the double slit experiment without saying "Space is made of wave function", rather than there's a wave function associated to a quantum object and it obeys the behaviour described by quantum mechanics. As such the observed phenomenon doesn't necessarily imply what you claim it does as there is an alternative explanation.
Whoopdeedoo that you have an alternative interpretation. I have an explanation. I have an experiment to test it. And if the test works then we've discovered an amazing new phenomena that can revolutionize transportation technology.
Your last sentence doesn't follow from the rest. Yes, time dilation effects manifest themselves in some instances as changes in frequency but not all changes in frequency are time dilation products. All humans are mammals but not all mammals are humans.
You're right. It's not logical that frequency shift can induce a time dilation field and a gravity field. But do the experiment anyway! You would never be able to open a padlock without the right combination of three numbers. If there was a major scientific discovery locked up by a pad lock, and you only had two numbers, it wouldn't be logical to think you could open the padlock.

But common sense would tell you to start trying to guess the third number.
We can cause frequency shifts in photons without any gravitational field, illustrating the negation of your claim.
How was gravity measured in these frequency shift experiments? What was the frequency shift, and how fast was it shifted? How large was [df/dt], the frequency shift versus time? I doubt that you can back up your claim.

There's no evidence the universe has a creator and certainly that it would communicate with any human. Therefore it isn't 'perfectly reasonable' to 'ask the creator'.
Then shame on you for not using all of your mental resources and all of your creative instincts. Parts of your brain are trying to talk to you, but you ignore it because those parts of your mind don't conform to your limited world view. It's all about getting RESULTS! It's all about getting RESULTS! It's all about getting RESULTS!

It doesn't matter if your creativity displays itself as God, aliens or something else. If it can help you look at the physics in a new way, from a new perspective, then go along with it. I got you as close to gravity field generation technology as I could without performing any experiments. The experiment is: can a frequency shift induce a measurable time dilation? If a time dilation does occur, can it induce a measurable acceleration field?

It's a very simple test to explain.
I raise an eyebrow at anyone who gives such a reply and especially when they follow it with : So you haven't reached your conclusions through proper research, experiments, model development and effort, you've been told how the universe works by a voice in your head.
There's nothing to be gained by any rational scientific person discussing things with you. If you really hear a voice or get told things by 'the creator' then you're not rational, you're insane. Yes, that is a perfectly reasonable approach, shame you haven't followed it. You've been told something by a voice in your head and you've decided to accept it, ignoring evidence, logic and sanity. Before I thought you were naive. Now I see it's much much worse.
Laypersons talk about educated idiots all the time. I have conversations with regular people while pumping gasoline at the pump at \$4.25/gallon. Some educated people have no common sense. They have no ability to judge risk versus benefit. They have no creative ideas. They live on tenure and don't understand that innovation and creativity are how you survive. I have the images, burned into my memory, of a man, a talented programmer, with tears in his eyes because he was being laid off, and there were no jobs anywhere. He looked afraid and it made me feel afraid for my job. The economy was sinking and people were being laid of everywhere. I survived five rounds of layoffs and watched my job responsibilities get packed up and move to China.

I knew that current physics was giving diminishing returns of technology, and the economy was starting cool off. So I asked whatever powers that be, whatever God, Creator, alien of other creative intelligence. Gravity field generation was the key to lowering transportation costs, and the key to a robust world economy. So I listened to and interacted with the creative parts of my mind, of my consciousness, and came up with a relationship between frequency shifting and time dilation(gravity). It was testable; unlike superstring theory which is still waiting for a 26 dimensional crystal to fall out of the sky from the mother ship.

AlphaNumeric, you're the expert on quantum mechanics and general relativity. If there remains even a dying ember of human feeling within you, then at least think about the experiment.

17. Originally Posted by Mazulu
Whoopdeedoo that you have an alternative interpretation. I have an explanation. I have an experiment to test it. And if the test works then we've discovered an amazing new phenomena that can revolutionize transportation technology.
Then, conduct the experiment; publish the result.

Originally Posted by Mazulu
But do the experiment anyway!
What is the experiment?
Originally Posted by Mazulu
So I listened to and interacted with the creative parts of my mind, of my consciousness, and came up with a relationship between frequency shifting and time dilation(gravity). It was testable; unlike superstring theory which is still waiting for a 26 dimensional crystal to fall out of the sky from the mother ship.
In other words: Imagined.

This is where those previously mentioned, "RESULTS!" step in as a qualifier.
Originally Posted by Mazulu
If there remains even a dying ember of human feeling within you, then at least think about the experiment.
An appeal to emotion is irrelevant. Consider the fist pounding on the table demanding results as implacable.

18. The square of the interval between two events is an invariant. It looks like,
(ds')^2=-(cdt')^2 + dx'^2 + dy'^2 + dz'^2 = -(cdt)^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 = (ds)^2.

Let that interval be the wave-length of a frequency of light. In a frequency shift experiment, you also length shift the wavelength of light. Such an experiment would be an attempt to manipulate the curvature of space-time using frequency shifting light.

A million times a second, you are going to emit a linear frequency shift of the form f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0. You must emit from a surface area differential dA, 400 to 800 THz every microsecond.

To perform the experiment, you would need to use groups of light emitting diodes, groups of 8 of them spaced periodically like a lattice. You would need to electrical engineers, ASIC designers and programmers to perform the experiment. It's not an experiment that I can design or build.

19. Originally Posted by Neverfly
An appeal to emotion is irrelevant. Consider the fist pounding on the table demanding results as implacable.
You are a perfect example of someone who has had their common sense brainwashed away by the academic community. You didn't catch the tiny little detail known as: tenure. If you don't have tenure, then you are subject to the bear and bull market cycles of the economy. It doesn't matter how smart you are; if you don't have tenure: you can be laid off.

The economy is not doing well. There are very few job openings and dozens of qualified candidates for every job opening. Emotions are not irrelevant; you have to live fear of finding a job and fear of keeping your job.

If the experiment is not performed, then proof of concept will not happen. If the experiment is performed, then proof of concept might happen. If time dilation can be induced by frequency shift, guess what! Research jobs galore!!! Corporations will spring up that want to manufacture frequency shift propulsion devices. Manufacturing jobs will spring up, design jobs, testing jobs... Shipping companies will want to buy trucks with antigravity fixtures that can reduce the weight of their cargo. Less weight means less fuel is requires. Fuel costs go down. The costs of everything that is shipped will eventually go down. Lower costs means more money can be saved and spent on other things, other products, other services. In turn, this means more jobs all around.

20. I think this shows that in addition to having his 'theories' and information provided directly by both God and Aliens, Maz has no idea of how the academic community acts.

Every grad student, every PhD candidate would sell parts of his anatomy for a real breakthrough which would actually reveal something new.

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