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Thread: Usa compared to amsterdam crime rates

  1. #1
    Awesome User Title Diode-Man's Avatar
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    Usa compared to amsterdam crime rates

    OK, so check this out, crime rates rise when prohibition is enacted. For example, in Australia, when they made fire arms illegal it created a situation so that only criminals have guns over there.

    With the USA, lots of drugs are prohibited and people are treated like "bad guys" when drug problems should be treated as a health care issue. In the Netherlands they have relaxed drug laws and a much lower percentage of murderers in their population. Treating drug addicts like bad guys essentially turns them INTO bad guys and here is your proof:

    (NOTICE THAT WHILE AMERICA HAS MORE MURDERS NETHERLANDS HAS LESS MURDERERS PER 1,000 people, ROUGHLY 1/4th PER CAPITA AS USA!!!!!!!
    )
    Netherlands;

    Variable Amount/description Rank
    Crime > Assaults 44,129 [14th of 58]
    Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 2.33559 per 1,000 people [15th of 55]
    Crime > Drug offences 47 per 100,000 people [20th of 36]
    Crime > Illicit drugs
    major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering
    Crime > Murders 183 [40th of 63]
    Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]
    Crime > Rapes 1,648 [20th of 66]
    Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.100445 per 1,000 people [22nd of 65]
    Crime > Total crimes 1,305,640 [14th of 61]
    Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 79.5779 per 1,000 people


    USA;

    Variable Amount/description Rank
    Crime > Assaults 2,238,480 [1st of 58]
    Crime > Car thefts (per capita) 3.8795 per 1,000 people [9th of 55]
    Crime > Murders 12,658 [6th of 63]
    Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
    Crime > Murders with firearms 8,259 [4th of 32]
    Crime > Murders with firearms (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
    Crime > Rapes 89,110 [1st of 66]
    Crime > Rapes (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
    Crime > Total crimes 23,677,800 [1st of 61]
    Crime > Total crimes (per capita) 80.0645 per 1,000 people [8th of 60]

    Follow the link to the website, but keep in mind that much of the Netherlands is not thought of as vacation areas, I have seen the slums or Rotterdam, to the shipyards on the sea. The tourist town in Amsterdam is safer then you think. Many cops and such. Stay out of the slums and shipyards.

    Source(s):
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
    Last edited by Diode-Man; 04-12-12 at 11:10 PM. Reason: MADE A MAJOR CHANGE TO A DUMB MISS-TYPING

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Diode-Man View Post
    OK, so check this out, crime rates rise when prohibition is enacted. For example, in Australia, when they made fire arms illegal it created a situation so that only criminals have guns over there.

    With the USA, lots of drugs are prohibited and people are treated like "bad guys" when drug problems should be treated as a health care issue. In the Netherlands they have relaxed drug laws and a much lower percentage of murderers in their population. Treating drug addicts like bad guys essentially turns them INTO bad guys and here is your proof:

    (NOTICE THAT WHILE AMERICA HAS MORE MURDERS IT HAS LESS MURDERERS PER 1,000 people, ROUGHLY 1/4th PER CAPITA AS NETHERLANDS!!!!!!!
    )

    So...one of these statements is by definition untrue. What exactly is your intended point here?

  3. #3
    Awesome User Title Diode-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chipz View Post
    So...one of these statements is by definition untrue. What exactly is your intended point here?
    You don't know how to do basic math?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Diode-Man View Post
    You don't know how to do basic math?
    Before you start attacking people, look at what you've said:

    "In the Netherlands they have ... a much lower percentage of murderers in their population. "

    "NOTICE THAT WHILE AMERICA HAS MORE MURDERS IT HAS LESS MURDERERS PER 1,000 people ... AS NETHERLANDS"

    America cannot have more and less murders per capita.

  5. #5
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diode-Man View Post
    (NOTICE THAT WHILE AMERICA HAS MORE MURDERS IT HAS LESS MURDERERS PER 1,000 people, ROUGHLY 1/4th PER CAPITA AS NETHERLANDS!!!!!!!
    )
    Netherlands;
    Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.0111538 per 1,000 people [51st of 62]

    USA;
    Crime > Murders (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
    This indicates that the US has four times as many murders as the Netherlands, not the other way around. Do you have contrary stats on Rotterdam specifically?

    I did note that their total crimes were equivalent to those of the US, however, so perhaps they're making it up in other areas.

  6. #6
    Awesome User Title Diode-Man's Avatar
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    Wow sorry people, my mistake, the Netherlands has 1/4th percentage of murder rates compared to the USA.

  7. #7
    Bloodthirsty Barbarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
    "NOTICE THAT WHILE AMERICA HAS MORE MURDERS IT HAS LESS MURDERERS PER 1,000 people ... AS NETHERLANDS"

    America cannot have more and less murders per capita.
    Read it more carefully: he's saying there's more murders, but less murderers per capita. The obvious conclusion is that American murderers are much more effective than Dutch murderers, and so each manage to murder many more people than their Dutch counterparts.

    I attribute this disparity to the superior work ethic and gun culture of America. Clearly, the Dutch nanny state has coddled Dutch murderers into the type of entitled brats who can barely manage to murder even one person before being apprehended. They should consider importing superior American murderers to bring their murder rate up to a competitive level.

  8. #8
    Many have tried to isolate exactly what is the source of America's higher crime. On paper it looks like it should be more in line with Western European nations. Most conclusions have pointed towards higher rates of ethnic difference and income disparities wider than much of the 1st world. Both come into play, but it seems to be particularly bad when they are mixed into one. The statistical relationship between being black and being poor is so enormous that it can begin to look like a race war (looking from the inside out). In this war like mindset, murder isn't wrong...it's survival.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
    Read it more carefully: he's saying there's more murders, but less murderers per capita. The obvious conclusion is that American murderers are much more effective than Dutch murderers, and so each manage to murder many more people than their Dutch counterparts.

    I attribute this disparity to the superior work ethic and gun culture of America. Clearly, the Dutch nanny state has coddled Dutch murderers into the type of entitled brats who can barely manage to murder even one person before being apprehended. They should consider importing superior American murderers to bring their murder rate up to a competitive level.

  10. #10
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
    Read it more carefully: he's saying there's more murders, but less murderers per capita. The obvious conclusion is that American murderers are much more effective than Dutch murderers, and so each manage to murder many more people than their Dutch counterparts.

    I attribute this disparity to the superior work ethic and gun culture of America. Clearly, the Dutch nanny state has coddled Dutch murderers into the type of entitled brats who can barely manage to murder even one person before being apprehended. They should consider importing superior American murderers to bring their murder rate up to a competitive level.
    Don't be absurd; their total crime rate is highly competitive (79.5779 per 1,000 people to 80.0645 per 1,000 people). So what they've done is achieve a diversity of criminal services, rather than restricting themselves to some narrow-minded interpretation of criminal efficiency. I tell you, it's the kind of myopic specialization you're boosting here that will eventually run the American crime industry right into the ground.

  11. #11
    Bloodthirsty Barbarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffP View Post
    Don't be absurd; their total crime rate is highly competitive (79.5779 per 1,000 people to 80.0645 per 1,000 people). So what they've done is achieve a diversity of criminal services, rather than restricting themselves to some narrow-minded interpretation of criminal efficiency. I tell you, it's the kind of myopic specialization you're boosting here that will eventually run the American crime industry right into the ground.
    What hogwash! Everyone knows that murder is the sine qua non of crimes, and the other sectors merely play supporting roles as training/internship areas.

    And anyway the Dutch are padding their drug crime statistics by re-criminalizing previously decriminalized substances, in a shameless bid to appear competitive with the USA.

  12. #12
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Pfft. Good luck with that.

  13. #13
    Awesome User Title Diode-Man's Avatar
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    Whats wrong with these prohibition government idiots? Don't they see that prohibition turns people with health problems into criminals? (after all, addiction is more of a medical/educational problem)

    Where will this damned world be in 10,000 years? I think either we'll be extinct or there were be two societies, the "superiors" and the "inferiors." Rich and poor, political leaders and non-political people are probably the beginning of the great divide...

    SOOO ANGRY

  14. #14
    Caput gerat lupinum GeoffP's Avatar
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    Like we said, you should get more into murder.

    Well, not you personally.

    Well, maybe. Guess it depends how much of a Dutch patriot you are. Anyway, let us know.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Diode-Man View Post
    Whats wrong with these prohibition government idiots? Don't they see that prohibition turns people with health problems into criminals? (after all, addiction is more of a medical/educational problem)

    Where will this damned world be in 10,000 years? I think either we'll be extinct or there were be two societies, the "superiors" and the "inferiors." Rich and poor, political leaders and non-political people are probably the beginning of the great divide...

    SOOO ANGRY
    Yeah Diode, those are probably the only two ways it could go. See you on the other side.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Diode-Man View Post
    Whats wrong with these prohibition government idiots? Don't they see that prohibition turns people with health problems into criminals? (after all, addiction is more of a medical/educational problem)
    Ermm you do realise that soft drugs, like Cannabis is not so much legal as that the Government in the Netherlands just do not enforce the laws that stringently against it as they do against hard drug crimes like cocaine, yes?

    Also, Cannabis can result in an increased chance of mental illness, especially amongst teenagers whose brains may still be developing. The issue in the Netherlands is that coffee shops selling cannabis are selling types that have a much higher level of THC, which can lead to detrimental effects, especially for younger users.

    So while Cannabis or the desire for Cannabis may lead to crimes such as petty theft and drug trafficking and all the evils associated with that, smoking Cannabis can also lead to mental illness. So does it need to be controlled? Yes. In that it should be a controlled substance, possibly prescribed by one's medical practitioners, instead of just walking into a coffee shop and buying a joint with cannabis grown god knows where with god knows what pesticides and a possibly horrible higher dose of THC.

    Where will this damned world be in 10,000 years? I think either we'll be extinct or there were be two societies, the "superiors" and the "inferiors." Rich and poor, political leaders and non-political people are probably the beginning of the great divide...
    Because they are the only alternatives.....?

    SOOO ANGRY
    You should go and see your doctor if just discussing topics like this makes you so angry. Maybe he can prescribe you something to help calm you down. Possibly even medical cannabis..

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    Ermm you do realise that soft drugs, like Cannabis is not so much legal as that the Government in the Netherlands just do not enforce the laws that stringently against it as they do against hard drug crimes like cocaine, yes?

    Also, Cannabis can result in an increased chance of mental illness, especially amongst teenagers whose brains may still be developing. The issue in the Netherlands is that coffee shops selling cannabis are selling types that have a much higher level of THC, which can lead to detrimental effects, especially for younger users.
    As can alcohol, which causes brain damage, dependency, and is a far more present danger to the greater public, in various forms. Are you arguing for alcohol to also be prescribed by one's medical practitioners?

    Anyway, his point, that American drug laws do more harm than good, is not reliant upon the misapprehension that weed is legal in The Netherlands. One does not need to see an alternative to our laws to know that there is a better alternative. But if you really do want to know what an alternative looks like, check out Portugal. They had a pretty serious drug problem, and opted for full decriminalization, and the results have been amazing.

    So while Cannabis or the desire for Cannabis may lead to crimes such as petty theft and drug trafficking and all the evils associated with that, smoking Cannabis can also lead to mental illness. So does it need to be controlled? Yes. In that it should be a controlled substance, possibly prescribed by one's medical practitioners, instead of just walking into a coffee shop and buying a joint with cannabis grown god knows where with god knows what pesticides and a possibly horrible higher dose of THC.
    Mandating a prescription for marijuana does nothing to solve the problems prohibition has created. I don't know how many drug dealers you know, but I've known a few, and almost all of them, among other drugs, sold prescription pills.

    The potential risks associated with weed--minimal as they are--are not worth the cost of prohibition, and making it a medical issue doesn't improve the situation. Full decriminalization would be best, because it would cost the least, and some of the money saved could go toward education programs, as opposed to the propaganda we're used to ("Weed funds terrorism" being my personal favorite).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
    As can alcohol, which causes brain damage, dependency, and is a far more present danger to the greater public, in various forms. Are you arguing for alcohol to also be prescribed by one's medical practitioners?
    Is that what I said? Or are you reading between the lines?

    Cannabis is known to increase the chances of mental illness, especially in younger and still developing brains (ie teenagers and young adults) and those who may have a pre-disposition for schizophrenia.. In some, even a small amount can literally make them suffer from a psychotic episode.

    We do not allow the sale of alcohol to minors for a reason. I do think that in the event of legalising cannabis, it should also be restricted in a similar fashion. Especially when you realise that the cannabis of today will contain much higher levels of THC, which is what scientists attribute to the possible connection to psychosis after the use of cannabis.

    Is it as dangerous as alcohol? Personally I would say yes. And I have used the stuff for medicinal purposes in the last two years as it was the only thing that helped with the nausea and pain. But my usage of it was controlled and monitored by my doctors - ie they also went through my medical history and that of my family's to make sure there was a reduced chance that I was predisposed to a psychiatric illness.. The risk of course is that the levels of THC I was getting was much higher, but it was something I had to be very careful about in every way. The same cannot be said for the average teenagers who are lighthing up joints on every occasion and smoking god knows what else along with it.. It needs to be controlled and it should not be sold to teenagers and young adults unless it is controlled and monitored.

    Mandating a prescription for marijuana does nothing to solve the problems prohibition has created. I don't know how many drug dealers you know, but I've known a few, and almost all of them, among other drugs, sold prescription pills.

    The potential risks associated with weed--minimal as they are--are not worth the cost of prohibition, and making it a medical issue doesn't improve the situation. Full decriminalization would be best, because it would cost the least, and some of the money saved could go toward education programs, as opposed to the propaganda we're used to ("Weed funds terrorism" being my personal favorite).
    I don't disagree with you. But I do think that in the event of it being decriminalised, it should be controlled as one controls alcohol and tobacco in that it cannot be sold to anyone under a certain age and lower doses, or dope with lower levels of THC, are sold and the funds gained from that would go towards funding education and rehabilitation centres for more harder drugs.
    Last edited by Bells; 04-16-12 at 11:21 AM.

  19. #19
    Bells i wondered about that when you said it previously. I thought weed was still listed as a S9 substance by the federal goverment and as such is banned from perscription or use except by specially authorised resurches.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Asguard View Post
    Bells i wondered about that when you said it previously. I thought weed was still listed as a S9 substance by the federal goverment and as such is banned from perscription or use except by specially authorised resurches.
    Ermm because I bought it from a dealer. My doctors actually recommended I try it and they were right. It was only for the absolutely worst moments where I could not keep anything down at all, not even my pain relief medication or even water. Was it illegal? Yes, very much so. Did it help me? Yes, very much so. It was the last resort for me and it worked.

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