03-25-12, 06:53 AM #101Necrosymbiosis is the phenomenon which occurs when a symbiotic relationship decays through all of its various stages to the point where one group within the relationship, or in extremely hostile case both groups, are willing to destroy itself or themselves to prevent the other group in the relationship from prevailing or existing.
03-25-12, 07:13 AM #102
03-25-12, 09:48 AM #103
As to Occidental's claim, no I'm not inventing my own facts James.
Originally Posted by Occidental
Occidental is simply starting counting at the wrong time, the convestation in question is between CaptBork and I and so only the posts between us matter. Of course if Trippy had called me on it I would have admitted it then as well, but my few posts back and forth to Trippy are clearly not part of the converstion that I'm having with CaptBork. (forum threads are like that, multiple conversations going on at the same time)
CaptBork posts his "Hey I didn't say deborbit" on 07-16-11, 10:10 AM in post #106
107 is Cosmic's post
108 is Billvon's post
109 is Wellwisher's post
110 is CaptBork answering Wellwisher
and like I said, MY VERY NEXT POST in the thread is post 111, where I tell him not to lie about what I'm posting and I won't lie about what he is posting.
So yes James, 111 is indeed my next post within the thread TO CaptBork about this issue and immediately after CaptBork complains that I misquoted him.
Last edited by adoucette; 03-25-12 at 10:24 AM.
03-25-12, 09:56 AM #104
And is that really the issue here? (See OP)
But let's see how we can put that standard into practice.
adoucette: Yes, but I've seen the compromising pictures of James with Barnyard animals.
James: That's a lie. No such pictures exist.
Moderator: But James, have YOU ever uttered an untrue word?
James: Well once when I was small I lied and said the dog spilled my milk.
Moderator: Well then, I can't help you. Once you've uttered an untrue word its open season on people calling you a liar and telling lies about you.
03-25-12, 10:42 AM #105
03-25-12, 02:18 PM #106
On Enough Really Being EnoughOriginally Posted by Ophiolite
And then consider this:
This is ridiculous. I read the whole frigging thread. I could see no instance where evidence of lying was presented. Then I am told - I paraphrase what was said - "No, no, there are is a clear incident given." Since I didn't see that the first time then all I am asking is that you point out where this frigging incident is so I can look at it again. Is that so frigging hard? ....
.... No. Absolute balls. I have read the entire thread. I do not see where an assertion of lying is made that stands up. I have not acknowledged that I have not read the claim,. If the claim is in this thread I have read it, but it did not appear to be a valid claim.
• "I am still waiting for a moderator or any member to cite a single instance in which adoucette lied. He's challenged several persons to do this and no one has yet succeeded. I'm just a simple lad, but that failure suggests something to me." (#54)
• "It is not practical to go through every word, sentence, paragraph and post and say 'No, this doesn't look like a lie to me.'" (#81)
• "I have read the entire thread. I do not see where an assertion of lying is made that stands up. I have not acknowledged that I have not read the claim,. If the claim is in this thread I have read it, but it did not appear to be a valid claim. " (#97)
So let's think about this for a moment:
Post #54, in which you claim to be "waiting for a moderator or any member to cite a single instance in which adoucette lied" comes after a specific case was detailed. Your general claim does not address the detail of why the evidence on record is insufficient. There are two general reasons for this: Perhaps you didn't see it, or maybe you're rejecting it but for some reason don't wish to explain why.
Reminded that your statement was incorrect at the time of its posting, you reiterate your assertion and explain:
"Based on the evidence and argument presented to date no one has demonstrated to me that adoucette has lied. I am perfectly willing to accept he has lied if someone will show me an instance. Perhaps the one you claim to be a lie is such a case, but you'll have to explain that to me in detail, as requested."
It is pointed out that you have not specifically addressed the details already on record. But why would you ask for a reiteration of details on the record? Did you not see them? That's possible; it is also possible that you simply don't want to try to make your case.
In response to the point about details on the record, you ask, "Address what detail?"
And claim, "It is not practical to go through every word, sentence, paragraph and post and say 'No, this doesn't look like a lie to me.'"
And then you demand: "Why can't you just point me to the precise instant which you believe constitues a lie. As it is it is looking more and more as if you will not do so, because there is no such instance."
Now, it is true that the appearance of dissonance appears in your arguments. To the one, "It is not practical to go through every word, sentence, paragraph and post", while, to the other, "it is looking more and more as if you will not [provide the evidence], because there is no such instance".
See, the thing is that if you just didn't see the point on record, we all chuckle about statements intended to be definitive or authoritative that really aren't, and then we move on. If, however, you're playing that stupid game where one insists on disagreeing without attempting to make the argument, well, that's a bit more difficult a conundrum to resolve.
Your explanation for not seeing the issue the first time around is that you need me to point it out to you. Okay, fine. So you didn't see it the first time around. That is what I needed to know. It tells me what I'm dealing with in your inquiry.
But when that explanation is reiterated for your analysis, what do you do? You pitch a fit, demand a retraction, and then stomp off in a huff. ("Tell you what, forget the retraction. Enough really is enough.")
It seems like it would have just been easier for you to address the point at the outset. Indeed, to borrow a phrase, it is looking more and more as if you will not do so.
I would only note, of enough really being enough, that it's fine with me if the solution is to stop giving your critiques of our community and staff any serious consideration. You wouldn't be the first. Either way, that outcome is up to you.
03-25-12, 05:30 PM #107
"I built a hundred bridges, but do they call me Johnson the bridge-builder? No. I built a hundred schools, but do they call me Johnson the educator? No. I won a hundred wars, but do they call me Johnson the general? No. But fuck one goat..."
Sure, technically, he's a liar. And you are, and I am, and Tiassa is, and James is. But this is an unhelpful distinction: we're talking about on the forum. I realize you're trying to smooth the waters, but there may be a real gripe of substance here. Many of the members appear to think so.
03-25-12, 06:02 PM #108
Deleted post: please see my post below. Cheers!
Last edited by RealityCheck; 03-25-12 at 06:13 PM.
03-25-12, 06:08 PM #109keith1Guest
Keith1's Examination of Post #79 (Business & Economics/
"What is wrong in the Western Economies?"
Following the quote of the post are three excerpts from the quote, where I comment on the excerpts. I have included comments by adoucette and BillyT, for comparative analysis.
...There's nothing inherently wrong with Capitalism in a free-market. It's morally neutral. You use your capital to invest, loan or spend. Pretty simple really. The problem is YOUR currency is being manipulated to f*ck you over....
--Capitalism cannot guarantee everyone is a Profit-or, which is an inherent weakness in the system, whether the market is free or otherwise. One might add the frightening conclusion that all capitalism is a "pyramid scheme" of inevitable breakdown and failure over time, without measures that adjust those crippling disparities (hense my K1 strategy posted elsewhere--"Local Public Investment Strategies").
...As society moves AWAY from Free Market Capitalism and towards "Socialism" it must at the same time reduce informational unknowns which means reducing your freedoms. The government just spent a Trillion dollars on TSA...
adoucette(from same thread, Post#81):
And you are so wrong it's hilarious Michael.
It would take the current TSA annual budget 125 years to cost a Trillion dollars.And that's ignoring the fact that the TSA replaced the also expensive Airline operated Security system which drastically failed us. So even if the Gov system costs a billion or two more than the lax and patronage based private system, the extra cost is worth it (in Atlanta for instance, every screener was Black prior to the TSA).
What's wrong with Western Economies? Mainly the Cattle that make up the society. The have almost no idea about anything that's going on around them. They watch the idiot box, nod, and eat their grass.
Apathy, if correctly diagnosed, can be from any number of causes. To suggest a demeaning character of complacency doesn't address the possibility of depression, a feeling of helplessness, escapism or distraction through entertainment venues, heightened level of intellectual pursuit, etc.
The quote was loose conjecture, unfair propaganda, more at revealing the angry, venomous undercurrent issues of the poster, an outright attempt to demonize and demoralize a chosen target group.
...Once more Michael claiming mental superiority.
That he can see what the rest of us miss.
But, as shown above, Michael you are wrong about nearly everything you post...
...While I agree Michael gets much wrong or at least is confused, or not well informed, etc. He is 100% correct in his post above so your (adoucette) comments, if on it and they appear to be as placed immediately below his text (Excerpts 2 & 3 above), are in error...
Note: It is clear that some statements made by all posters quoted here can be general observations of the data presented, laced with unnecessary jibes, and tensions, carried over from previous or on-going threads not related to the current location or topic. It is difficult in such circumstances to deduce separation from, the "erroneous statements held as truths", from the intentional statements that are "lies".
One way to easily combat this dilemma is to supply evidence to all statements made, or quotes taken, either in or out of context.
Last edited by keith1; 03-25-12 at 09:29 PM.
03-25-12, 06:13 PM #110
Good morning everyone!
This post is for the attention of admin/mods posting in this thread even after we have supposedly characterised and clarified that most of this flows from misunderstanding and exacerbation of misunderstandings because there is no primary requirement to ask for clarification before accusing/reporting others.
Well? I ask: Why are you admin/mods still posting arguments/accusations here and continuing the sh!tfight based on obvious misunderstandings and personality/style clashes?
Be the grownups here please. Stop joining in the sh!tfight and tit-for-tat stuff. Get back to what you should be doing and set an example for anyone who posts here further accusations and provocations obviously aimed at trolling and inflaming the situation for their own agenda. If the admin/mods make it clear they will delete any further accusations/petty posts that are obviously just prolonging unnecessary repetitions of the background to this misunderstanding, then perhaps there will be an end to the tit-for-tat continuations of this now stale to-and-fro?
I respectfully request the mods/admin bring an end to any further posting here grievance/retaliation unless it is crucial to the mods/admin's deliberations about the general issues raised here.
Can you just now get to making and implementing some consistent and inflexible policy requesting EVERYONE to play nice and be fair and to first ask for clarification (sometimes more than once, depending on complexity/circumstances and possibilities for misunderstandings due to language/experiential differences) as a FIRST RESORT. Then maybe you mods/admin won't keep getting dragged into such time and energy and goodwill wasting situations like these.
Surely you admin/mods (and everyone of genuine character/intent here) would much prefer to spend your time better and more productively for science/society rather than waste time in ways which could be so easily and readily prevented by simple courtesy and consistent policy aimed at forestalling/deleting such futile behaviour/posts which blow up into these situations?
ANYHOW, TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: Please let there be an end to trailing antagonistic/retaliatory etc posts which can only serve to leave in the forum/observer many lingering doubts as the the efficacy of moderation and of (supposed) polite scientific discourse? I trust that any further inflammatory posts will be eschewed/abhorred by all on 'any side' in this.
Cheers and good luck and good thinking, everyone!
PS: If I may be forgiven this well-intentioned presumption on my part: May I trust that everyone concerned has by now cooled down and 'tacitly' extended (without any prejudice or admissions of blame/liability etc to be implied/inferred) mutual apologies between them and good-naturedly shaken hands 'over the internet' and got on with their lives without residual rancour or grudge? Hope so! Cheers!
Last edited by RealityCheck; 03-25-12 at 08:19 PM.
03-25-12, 09:05 PM #111
I think this thread has probably served its purpose by now. Close?
03-25-12, 09:11 PM #112
03-26-12, 08:31 AM #113
Your's, Tiassa's and Bells' maybe, not mine or the Forum's.
All you three did was use flaming to avoid the issue.
I post this in SFOG:
Originally Posted by adoucette
And not one comment from any moderator on the actual issue or post in question.
Even though clearly there are others who agree:
JDawg: I'll second that, if it helps
ReadOnly: And I'll third it.
Quadraphonics: A staff that gave half a crap about the quality of discourse in that forum would never have empowered an obvious crank like BillyT in the first place. Or, at the very least, they'd have long since realized that, whatever BillyT's personal amicability, he's long since diminished that forum into a blog for his pet China-Eats-USA fantasies.
So what's the official response from the Mod Squad?
SFOG is a complete waste of time.
Yeah, close it James since you, Tiassa and Bells have made it clear that it is pointless to complain about blatent abuses by any of the moderators, since you are ok with them even in this thread. You've even made it quite clear that Tiassa and Bells can make up lies about me, post them here, and you won't say a word.
Indeed Quad said it best, pages ago:
Originally Posted by Quadraphonics
03-26-12, 12:29 PM #114
03-26-12, 01:05 PM #115keith1Guest
A productive post at this point would include some site readership decline/increase data:
Showing an overall increase in site visitors for the month (+34% as of 3/26).
The largest decline in interest may be contributed to March 17-18, when reports of moderator abuse became apparent. I want to add that this is not a certain conclusion, as this poster has not observed enough data over time, to make any confident predictions to site trends and readership dynamics.
(Noted too, are large climbs of interest on Feb 27, March 5, and March 13 (the date coinciding nicely with my "3D CMB analysis" thread**).
**--There will be no more data to research on this subject until after December, with the Planck Satellite findings expected to be presented.
Until then , I may add some loose conjectures as to what may be expected, sticking close to the current data as possible--K
Last edited by keith1; 03-26-12 at 01:44 PM.
03-26-12, 01:23 PM #116
03-27-12, 12:14 AM #117
03-29-12, 10:59 PM #118
03-30-12, 04:45 PM #119
Interestingly, different shades of meaning of lying.
"To lie is to hold something which one knows is not the whole truth to be the whole truth, intentionally."
In Romanian is added:
"Although deliberate lies are those that are considered to be more devastating and unforgivable, can identify with and lies spontaneous nepremeditate, possibly caused by lack of information, the correct understanding and / or misuse of the information available or accessible to a time."
03-30-12, 04:48 PM #120
There is only one correct answer to the question "Honey, does this dress make my ass look big?" and it has nothing at all to do with the "truth".
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