So who really rules the world?

[keith1]

Cooperative, transparent force applied locally to the local dynamics, as all individual local dynamics are different. Dismantle intermediate (between state and city) bodies, saddling the extra duties equally on the state and cities. All schooling goes online, and all displaced employees retooled, given priority in hiring in forced investment strategies, that instead of taxing the extorted with unneeded, so removed, interim county government structures--the (instead of increased tax) amounts become forced investments, with forced profit strategies, online transparent investment accounting and administration, public investor over-site, etc. Local public project investment directly contrived to benefit locally, fixed on advantaging local dynamics, and needs.
City and State governing and taxation remains intact, the increased workload paid by portions of the public investment profits.
Private business remains unaffected by no sales taxation, as tailor-fitting forced public investment strategies to enhance, not compete with, local business entities.
I call this the K1 strategy.

[Arioch]

@keith1 --

The problem with the, ehm, "K one" strategy is that it assumes an equality of knowledge which just doesn't exist. Companies lie and cheat all they can get away with and never tell anyone. You can't apply pressure to fix a problem that you don't know exists.

[keith1]

@keith1 --

The problem with the, ehm, "K one" strategy is that it assumes an equality of knowledge which just doesn't exist. Companies lie and cheat all they can get away with and never tell anyone. You can't apply pressure to fix a problem that you don't know exists.

But that would force the notion, "you can't have a real problem you don't know about, if it doesn't exist, and you didn't know it didn't exist. (It's probably easier just to say, "We may have nothing to fear, but fear itself").

[Arioch]

@keith1 --

Could you please start making sense.

[The Esotericist]

And economics is the whoring of science.

Brilliant mate.

[adoucette]

You're probably oversimplifying things a bit, and you haven't really thought through what we are going to replace things with. . . but o.k.

Yeah, because I, and I suspect many Billions of others, are reasonably happy with the way things are.

There is no question in my mind that in general the people of the world are better off today than at any time in the past.

So yeah, I haven't thought about what we are going to replace things and I see no signifcant organized movement to replace any democratic govt in any nation on this earth.

Really though, a voluntary system is in order right about now, not this hierarchical, non-voluntary, oppressively violent system that is forced upon everyone across the world. Yeah, clearly what is going on is unethical and immoral.

Well until you actually lay out the foundations and organization of this Non-hierarchical Voluntary System and explain how it would work, how it would be ethical and moral and non-violent, how do you expect any support at all?

Saying you don't like the current system is easy.

Coming up with a better system, is not nearly so easy.

So don't stop at the easy part.

[The Esotericist]

I find it ironic that many of you talk so cynically about people being "wage-slaves". It is an indicator of your mindset that you place so much importance on it.

The Story of Your Enslavement

[Heathen Duke]

If any single group runs the world they're doing a terrible job. I would guess it would be some mentally deficient, delusional, Judeo-Christian banking elite reflecting their fantasy world on nature judging by the socio-political situation we're experiencing. I can easily see some globalist organizations working with the Vatican, Israel and the British Crown (and subsequently their collection agency that is the US and other colonies) as our enslavers behind the scenes.

[keith1]

@keith1 --Could you please start making sense.

Originally Posted by Arioch
@keith1 --

...the, ehm, "K one"...

That was supposed to make sense? You are unfair to me. I believe I can title the economic strategy, since I believe it came from me. Who are you to poo poo it's nomenclature? Not the start of a friendly conversation.

...the.... strategy....assumes an equality of knowledge which just doesn't exist....

More supposed sense from you. [Translation needed].

...Companies lie and cheat all they can get away with and never tell anyone....

Make sense of that, then make the added effort to bring it into context with the K-1 strategy. You're not communicating with me. You're chastising me with jibber-jabber! Totally unfair.

...You can't apply pressure to fix a problem that you don't know exists. ...

Why wouldn't one know a local problem, when one lived locally? I'm not getting you at all. And what's worse, you have the unmitigated gall to accuse ME of not making sense.
Your reply to my strategy was without merit or reasoning.
I await better. Next.

[DaveC426913]

The Story of Your Enslavement

A link without context is pointless. Tell me how you feel this link - and what part of the 13 minutes of it* - is relevant to your point.

*don't say "all of it". If it takes 13 minutes to make your point, that's not a point. Points are small things.

[Arioch]

@keith1 --

If you have a complaint then could you quote the actual text you have a complaint about rather than cutting it to ribbons so that it doesn't make sense nor reflect the point I actually made. Such honesty would be appreciated.

[DaveC426913]

If any single group runs the world they're doing a terrible job. I would guess it would be some mentally deficient, delusional, Judeo-Christian banking elite reflecting their fantasy world on nature judging by the socio-political situation we're experiencing.

Not that I wish to defend the idea that any group rules the world but...

...your comment assumes this group wants the world to be doing well. Or maybe they do, but their goal is longer term. We don't know what this alleged group's ultimate goal is, but it could be a highly circuitous route to get there. Perhaps, by keeping certain countries poorer than others, they wish to drive production of ... I don't know electric cars, or renewable resources, and they figure this won't happen for another 5 decades.

I'm only playing Devils' Advocate, since I don't really subscribe to the 'elite class rules the world' theory. I'm simply pointing out the internal consistency of two possibilities:
- selfish: 'we are helping group X by making the rest of the world miserable'
- altruistic: 'it must get worse before it gets better'.

[chimpkin]

I actually think the world is run by thousands of small competing conspiracies that work at cross-purposes and are quite often organizationally incredibly stupid.

This has the advantage of fitting the observed data.

[DaveC426913]

This has the advantage of fitting the observed data.

Well, if we're going to fit observed data, then no one rules the world, and there are none but the most pedestrian of conspiracies.

But what fun is that for Conspiracists?

What's next? Applying your "fitting observed data" to Moon Hoaxers? That's just crazy talk.

[keith1]

Politics/
So who really rules the world? Post#51:

@keith1 --

If you have a complaint then could you quote the actual text you have a complaint about rather than cutting it to ribbons so that it doesn't make sense nor reflect the point I actually made. Such honesty would be appreciated.

You love to correct, of course, but should you wholly disregard a deficiency of the software, as somehow reflects wholly as a deficiency of a poster? Some of you seem to hide and wait a chance "to approach on stilts", those of us members who clearly "stand taller" in intelligence. Enjoying the view up here?
Feel free to continue to have your fun at my expense.

Politics/
So who really rules the world? Post#42:

@keith1 --

The problem with the, ehm, "K one" strategy is that it assumes an equality of knowledge which just doesn't exist. Companies lie and cheat all they can get away with and never tell anyone. You can't apply pressure to fix a problem that you don't know exists.

Politics/
So who really rules the world? Post#49:

That was supposed to make sense? You are unfair to me. I believe I can title the economic strategy, since I believe it came from me. Who are you to poo poo it's nomenclature? Not the start of a friendly conversation.
More supposed sense from you. [Translation needed].
Make sense of that, then make the added effort to bring it into context with the K-1 strategy. You're not communicating with me. You're chastising me with jibber-jabber! Totally unfair.
Why wouldn't one know a local problem, when one lived locally? I'm not getting you at all. And what's worse, you have the unmitigated gall to accuse ME of not making sense.
Your reply to my strategy was without merit or reasoning.
I await better. Next.

[Arioch]

@keith1 --

Alright, let me put this simply for you. In our world there is an inequality of knowledge, different people(and groups) have differing amounts of knowledge. In any economic situation the individual or group with greater knowledge(either of their own actions, the economic status of the other people and groups, or just about the availability of resources) will have a vast advantage over those who don't have that knowledge. In the case of some knowledge, such as a company's secret knowledge that they have two sets of books, it prevents people from applying pressure to fix a problem(that the company is keeping two sets of books). If they can't apply pressure to fix the problem then in a world without oversight of these companies they can continue to do whatever the hell they want.

You ask why someone wouldn't know of a local problem? Simple, they don't have access to the information about the problem as the company is keeping it secret. We saw perfect examples of this with the hydrofracking incidents here in New York. Companies were not only endangering people by allowing dangerous chemicals into the water supply(if you claim they aren't dangerous then you should try drinking flammable water, I'm sure it's great for your health), but we couldn't actively go and look for where those chemicals were coming from because the companies wouldn't tell us what they were!

Companies lie, they cheat, they steal, they keep different sets of books, and if they can get away with it by not telling anyone then they will. And the general public simply can't fight this because, unless someone from the inside blows the whistle, they simply won't know about it. Your strategy is, in an ideal world where everyone has equal access to information, a good one, but it simply won't work in the real world. Companies need some sort of oversight to ensure that they don't rape us the way they have in the past.

As for my comment about the title of "your" strategy, it's because it really is unbecoming to name something after yourself, especially when it's not original. Such ideas have been floating around for quite a while, in fact my dad once suggested something similar.

Oh, and the comments about intelligence, in addition to being highly narcissistic, are uncalled for. I barely poked fun at you at all(trust me when I say that no one on this site has gotten the full weight of my wit, I would be banned for unleashing it) and then only at the audacity you had in naming "your" idea after yourself. Not only that but given that you simply didn't understand what I was talking about when it should have been fairly obvious shows that you probably aren't as high above me as you might like to think you are.

[keith1]

@keith1 --

Alright, let me put this simply for you. In our world there is an inequality of knowledge, different people(and groups) have differing amounts of knowledge. In any economic situation the individual or group with greater knowledge(either of their own actions, the economic status of the other people and groups, or just about the availability of resources) will have a vast advantage over those who don't have that knowledge. In the case of some knowledge, such as a company's secret knowledge that they have two sets of books, it prevents people from applying pressure to fix a problem(that the company is keeping two sets of books). If they can't apply pressure to fix the problem then in a world without oversight of these companies they can continue to do whatever the hell they want.

You ask why someone wouldn't know of a local problem? Simple, they don't have access to the information about the problem as the company is keeping it secret. We saw perfect examples of this with the hydrofracking incidents here in New York. Companies were not only endangering people by allowing dangerous chemicals into the water supply(if you claim they aren't dangerous then you should try drinking flammable water, I'm sure it's great for your health), but we couldn't actively go and look for where those chemicals were coming from because the companies wouldn't tell us what they were!

Companies lie, they cheat, they steal, they keep different sets of books, and if they can get away with it by not telling anyone then they will. And the general public simply can't fight this because, unless someone from the inside blows the whistle, they simply won't know about it. Your strategy is, in an ideal world where everyone has equal access to information, a good one, but it simply won't work in the real world. Companies need some sort of oversight to ensure that they don't rape us the way they have in the past.

As for my comment about the title of "your" strategy, it's because it really is unbecoming to name something after yourself, especially when it's not original. Such ideas have been floating around for quite a while, in fact my dad once suggested something similar.

Oh, and the comments about intelligence, in addition to being highly narcissistic, are uncalled for. I barely poked fun at you at all(trust me when I say that no one on this site has gotten the full weight of my wit, I would be banned for unleashing it) and then only at the audacity you had in naming "your" idea after yourself. Not only that but given that you simply didn't understand what I was talking about when it should have been fairly obvious shows that you probably aren't as high above me as you might like to think you are.

Your region of local dynamics has not reached a breakdown point to which an alternate investment strategy could be needed, devised, nor capable of being implemented. I would advise you to research adjacent local work-around areas to migrate to, where there is a potential for a public cooperative investment strategy, if not a higher quality of existence.

[Arioch]

@keith1 --

Still doesn't address the problem of inequality of knowledge. And no amount of research is going to find me the hidden books or the dangerous chemicals being dumped or the dehumanizing working conditions or any of the various other problems plaguing the workforce today. These problems can only be addressed through some form of oversight, and the best available source of such oversight is the government, not the people, because the government can just take the information they need to enforce such oversight.

[chimpkin]

Well, if we're going to fit observed data, then no one rules the world, and there are none but the most pedestrian of conspiracies.

But what fun is that for Conspiracists?

What's next? Applying your "fitting observed data" to Moon Hoaxers? That's just crazy talk.

Indeed, if you want to know who controls what, do as Seymour Hirsch said and "follow the money."
The conspiracies that are being run are indeed all shady ways to accumulate a lot of money.

I wonder what the psychological utility value is of thinking the world is secretly controlled by an eeeeevil cabal of people...
I think it's a way some people, particularly the politically-right-of-center, in the USA, can avoid placing blame on the real government and industry leaders who are really mucking things up. Serves as a scapegoat for the greed, pettiness, and intense stupidity that often characterizes the actions of the people actually in charge.

Can you-all think of any other psychological utility for this popularly-imagined bogeyman?

[chimpkin]

@keith1 --

Still doesn't address the problem of inequality of knowledge. And no amount of research is going to find me the hidden books or the dangerous chemicals being dumped or the dehumanizing working conditions or any of the various other problems plaguing the workforce today. These problems can only be addressed through some form of oversight, and the best available source of such oversight is the government, not the people, because the government can just take the information they need to enforce such oversight.

They could...they should...but these days you see a lot of this:

In economics, regulatory capture occurs when a state regulatory agency created to act in the public interest instead advances the commercial or special interests that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for large firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called "captured agencies".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

"Negative externalities" can mean taxpayers covering losses for big banks, dumping of pollutants, cancer from pesticide exposure, plants blowing up and killing people, etc.