Justice and Security: Neighborhood Watch Captain Attacks, Kills Unarmed Teenager

[adoucette]

This was released this morning:



Supposedly 3 minutes after the shooting.

[joepistole]

This was released this morning:



Supposedly 3 minutes after the shooting.

What is so striking about this picture is that there is so little bleeding considering this is supposed to be a head wound. Anyone remotely familiar with head wounds knows that the head is very vascular. So even minor head wounds produce a lot of bleeding. For a head wound, there is surprisingly little in the way of bleeding.

The fact Zimmerman was not treated in an emergency room that evening, nor were the injuries dressed/bandaged backs up the case that these supposed injuries were at best very minor and certainly not life threatening.

[adoucette]

And yet the Florida Statute on Self Defense doesn't reguire one to have suffered life threatening injuries before defending themselves with lethal force (see link previously posted regarding Florida's liberal self defense laws), one only has to be in FEAR of great bodily harm.

What this does indicate though is that the part of his story where he and another witness said Martin was on top and was pounding Zimmerman's head into ground is reasonably corroborated by these pictures.

Add to these, what came out several days ago, that his neighbors saw bandages on his head and that he had a swollen nose the next day.

The case will involve the State proving there is reasonable doubt that his actions weren't in self defense and clearly these pictures don't help the prosecution.

Remember the Defense only has to get one out of 12 jurors to agree on this point for him to be acquitted.

The BAR for the state was high to start with, this picture along with those statements from the neighbors just made it higher.

[Asguard]

Hey maybe that teacher could have just shoot the six year old instead of calling the cops, after all she was doing MUCH worse than walking home with some skittles

[joepistole]

And yet the Florida Statute on Self Defense doesn't reguire one to have suffered life threatening injuries before defending themselves with lethal force (see link previously posted regarding Florida's liberal self defense laws), one only has to be in FEAR of great bodily harm.

What this does indicate though is that the part of his story where he and another witness said Martin was on top and was pounding Zimmerman's head into ground is reasonably corroborated by these pictures.

Add to these, what came out several days ago, that his neighbors saw bandages on his head and that he had a swollen nose the next day.

The case will involve the State proving there is reasonable doubt that his actions weren't in self defense and clearly these pictures don't help the prosecution.

Remember the Defense only has to get one out of 12 jurors to agree on this point for him to be acquitted.

The BAR for the state was high to start with, this picture along with those statements from the neighbors just made it higher.

You have a couple of issues. One, you don't know if the picture is authentic. Two, there is still no authentic verifiable evidence of injury to Zimmerman. It is all heresay. So your post only indicates your bias for Zimmerman.

I do think Zimmerman will ultimately walk. Not because he is innocent of moral wrong doing; not because he doesn't deserve to go to jail; not because of a lack of evidence; but because of a poorly written law that allows people like Zimmerman to hunt down innocent people, kill them and get off with a self defense plea. Zimmerman also has the benefit of a very good lawyer and a judge who seems very sympathetic to Zimmerman. In an other state without the "stand your ground law" there would be little question of Zimmerman's fate.

The American Legislative Exchange Council, a group that writes special interest legislation for it's corporate members -including the stand your ground laws - and then works to get that legislation passed in state legislatures (primarily Republican dominated), is now loosing corporate members. Thank God for small favors.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ur-ground-laws

[Asguard]

There is something wrong with that pic actually, I've seen a lot of wounds and specifically a lot of head wounds and I have NEVER seen a wound where the blood is in a straight line, blood goes everywhere including up so if that piture hasn't been doctored at first glance I would say that he was wearing some kind of hat which caused the straight line AND that the blood is transfer from someone else, ie it's probably the kids blood from where he blew the head off the poor kid

[joepistole]

There is something wrong with that pic actually, I've seen a lot of wounds and specifically a lot of head wounds and I have NEVER seen a wound where the blood is in a straight line, blood goes everywhere including up so if that piture hasn't been doctored at first glance I would say that he was wearing some kind of hat which caused the straight line AND that the blood is transfer from someone else, ie it's probably the kids blood from where he blew the head off the poor kid

You are quite correct. Notice that the blood goes to the left and then to the right in straight lines. Gravity only pulls in one direction. And there appears to be some abrasions that disapear a few minutes later in photos at the police station.

[adoucette]

There is something wrong with that pic actually, I've seen a lot of wounds and specifically a lot of head wounds and I have NEVER seen a wound where the blood is in a straight line,

I suspect that straight line is just where the color was washed out by the fact that the flash was too close to the subject.

The police reported that he was bleeding from the back of his head, this is consistant with their report.

[joepistole]

I suspect that straight line is just where the color was washed out by the fact that the flash was too close to the subject.

The police reported that he was bleeding from the back of his head, this is consistant with their report.

So where are the police reports?

[Asguard]

No actually it really goes everywhere including against gravity because as you move your head "down" moves too and also the natural incluination is to put your hand over a wound to check it if it's the back of your head and to stop the bleeding. I have never seen one so clean and definitely not with a straight invisible line running across it, it has to be a hat and if as he says his head was being bashed on the ground how did his hat stay on and straight (if you line up the top of the 2 blood smears they are straight so the hat was still on).

[adoucette]

So where are the police reports?

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

[joepistole]

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

How do you know it is real? Just because a document is posted in the internet, it does not mean the document is real/authentic.

[adoucette]

How do you know it is real? Just because a document is posted in the internet, it does not mean the document is real/authentic.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...175656087.html

[quadraphonics]

And yet the Florida Statute on Self Defense doesn't reguire one to have suffered life threatening injuries before defending themselves with lethal force (see link previously posted regarding Florida's liberal self defense laws), one only has to be in FEAR of great bodily harm.

What this does indicate though is that the part of his story where he and another witness said Martin was on top and was pounding Zimmerman's head into ground is reasonably corroborated by these pictures.

Add to these, what came out several days ago, that his neighbors saw bandages on his head and that he had a swollen nose the next day.

That stuff is largely a red herring. What it will all come down to is whether the jury believes that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation or not. That Martin might have cold-cocked an armed stranger who followed and accosted him won't render his subsequent killing into self-defense; likewise a scenario werein Martin jumped Zimmerman without provocation would point to self-defense even if Zimmerman were totally uninjured.

[adoucette]

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83O18H20120425

[steampunk]

From the evidence of the 911 calls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

This 911 evidence establishes that Trayvon was being stalked based upon suspicion. Any fight Trayvon puts up can be seen as self-defense. The fact that anyone sees anything different clearly shows lack of reason, which is possiblely motivated by racism, or an abject sense of double standard toward those with police training. Zimmerman having a gun in this slaking situation, further supports the reasoning to defend oneself. Now it has become a life threatening, not just a psycho stalking you.

I'm really curious to hear the phone conversation that Trayvon had with his girlfriend who was telling him to get away from him.

If Zimmerman walks, America deserves a full blown riot. Not because of propaganda or support of a riot, but because of the human compassion for Trayvon and a sense of injustice will dictate that.

The community down there can't even fire the racist police chief or the investigators behind his initial release. That shows that murder is okay, as long as you have some pig training.

The whole Nation has it's eyes on the situation. If it weren't for that, Trayvon would never have this opportunity for justice. The law obviously approved of his murder. This is the time to make examples out of people. This is the opportunity to create policy changes with law enforcement. If we pass up this opportunity, the apathetic and cold hearted will have won and world be worse off. A riot will be a fraction of the societal cost.

I will see Trayvon as Standing His Own Ground against a cold blooded killer. He went down with a fight. Now lets finish Zimmerman off for him and anyone who stands in our way.

[GeoffP]

Oh, hell, I'll chime in. There are questions regarding the above pic that need to be answered:

i) Is this actually Zimmerman's head? It might appear roughly the shape of his head, and the jacket - I think - is similar but that doesn't help. Such a post facto photo could easily be faked.

ii) Who took the photo? Without identification, how can there be any support for verification?

iii) The blood could be plausible: there does appear to be a kind of laceration in the upper end of the right-hand bleed fan. There might be one for the left one; can't see anything through the glare. Of course, if the photo were faked, I'm sure these details could and would be added either electronically or using make-up effects. Nothing can be made of the line of blood transit, given the statement that Zimmerman was supposedly fighting on the ground; during such a contest, if it took place, blood might move around quite a bit. Personally, I'd think there would be more 'flattening' or 'spreading out' of the blood marks if Zimmerman's head were on the ground, but then again he might have risen up rapidly. Fights are very chaotic things.

iv) In the police report, Off. Smith does state that Zimmerman was bleeding from nose and the back of the head, and that he was covered with grass as if laying on his back on the ground. Off. Ayala does not make those same observations. He was second to the scene. Did he forget to mention such details or were they not observed? Would Zimmerman have been cleaned up in the interim? Does anyone have contrary observations to either position?

However, without identifying the photographer and an affidavit - and this means vetting the photographer also - the photo is utterly useless. It could easily be a fake.

The good news from the report is that there do appear to be a plethora of witnesses. Might have to wait a good long while on their statements, mind.

[adoucette]

Oh, hell, I'll chime in. There are questions regarding the above pic that need to be answered:

i) Is this actually Zimmerman's head? It might appear roughly the shape of his head, and the jacket - I think - is similar but that doesn't help. Such a post facto photo could easily be faked.

ii) Who took the photo? Without identification, how can there be any support for verification?

ABC News provided that pic.
They said they knew who took it (but didn't release the name) and when it was taken.
This picture received national exposure and after all this time no one is claiming it's a fake.

[GeoffP]

All right: but this depends on the authenticity, ethics and competence of the media. I recall there was some vagarity in the reporting of his alleged injuries by ABC at the outset. It's also possible for ABC to have been spoofed.

[adoucette]

In a case with this much media attention I doubt a fake would have a long shelf life.