Why do people believe in God?

**wynn** · 04-11-12, 06:35 AM

How should we live then?

On the grounds of what should we transcend them?

On the grounds of what should we believe that there is more to life than the old struggle for survival?

**Rav** · 04-11-12, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by wynn

How should we live then?

One thing we know for certain is that we don't like to suffer. Therefore as Sam Harris has argued, a basis for morality can be derived from that alone. But because we're dealing with a collective, it can't be simply about doing whatever it takes to avoid your own suffering (at the potential expense of others), rather, all efforts in this direction need to take place with the collective in mind.

On the grounds of what should we transcend them?

See above.

On the grounds of what should we believe that there is more to life than the old struggle for survival?

On the grounds that you'd be hard pressed to find a single person who really, honestly, doesn't already think that there should be.

**Saturnine Pariah** · 04-11-12, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by wynn

Can you go a bit further with this explanation

Sure...which would you prefer the long version or short version?

**Saturnine Pariah** · 04-11-12, 01:26 PM

I'll go with the short version: Religion is bullshit.

**Saturnine Pariah** · 04-11-12, 01:49 PM

Here’s the long version: After years of speculation, study, learning and general lack of belief in any higher powers I have found man-made religions to be as a beneficial to mankind as Cancer is to the Tasmanian Devil, DDT to Eagle Eggs, Dams to spawning fish, and Humanity to itself. Good day and may your "god" prolong your life on this dying rock.

**Saturnine Pariah** · 04-11-12, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by wynn

How should we live then

On the grounds of what should we transcend them?

On the grounds of what should we believe that there is more to life than the old struggle for survival?

Live the way YOU want to live not by the rules of a man-made cult or diety
Stand your own ground, stand for what YOU as an INDIVIDUAL think is right or wrong not the chruch or your god
We are animals yes...however we have evoled beyond the criteria needed for natural selection we shape our own future not a unknown outside force.

The deaths of individualism, an endless cycle of conformity, a tenacious alteration of your vision, are you unique in any way?
The hunger, greed and desire to reach a new level higher, musing of an existence prior what have you lost along the way?
Your mind a place of confusion, reckless and non hesitant with your life, are your goals just delusions or dreams
This psychotic devastation now claimed for self preservation, this endless march towards a mirage of salvation, will you see the truth in time?
Surreptitious in your desire, the heart of your flame grows higher with the conversion of thoughts whom are not “inspired”
Those against your causes are undesired, their thoughts you burn with fire, exile them from your wishful paradise
What cost is taken for your bliss from others? In history you fought against the “others”, bloodshed, and persecution in the name of the son of the holy mother?
Are you in a pacified mind, for a force beyond your world will save you from yourself? Your doubts and questions are not allowed.
Are you unique, are you free? Or are you just another one of “his” little lost sheep, he gives you comfort and a pretense purpose, but soon he will end you.
The pulpit his tool, the humans his voice and existence, are you still sure of his presence? March to his word, think not of the absurd, and only listen to “his” words
Think not of the doubt that resonates within your mind; blindly trust the man who says you are blind, thus the cycle continues again
Questions, doubt, will leave you despised and victimized, never interject “him” never question “him” always follow the cause, and clap happily with the applause.
The endless masses plea and prey, they’ll deify anyone for the hope of grace, the mindless dichotomy will temper their peaceful place
There all the same, each just with a different name, the message they preach the lifestyle they convey are each twisted and serpentine in their unique ways.

**wynn** · 04-12-12, 01:01 AM

The holy grail of epistemic autonomy, yes ...

**Jan Ardena** · 04-12-12, 08:01 AM

wynn,

How should we live then?

From that perspective, we do whqtever we like. There are no rules, regulations, and intelligence is just a subjective concept. We are just basically advanced rocks, and life is just a lucky break.

jan.

**aaqucnaona** · 04-12-12, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jan Ardena

wynn,

From that perspective, we do whqtever we like. There are no rules, regulations, and intelligence is just a subjective concept. We are just basically advanced rocks, and life is just a lucky break.

jan.

Care to present the alternative/your preference?

**gmilam** · 04-12-12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Jan Ardena

wynn,

From that perspective, we do whqtever we like. There are no rules, regulations, and intelligence is just a subjective concept. We are just basically advanced rocks, and life is just a lucky break.

jan.

Let your conscience be your guide. If you think you can be a selfish jerk and still live with yourself - go for it.

Don't expect to have many friends...

**universaldistress** · 04-12-12, 04:09 PM

Maybe we should form places of worship where we can all go and praise the majesty of Science. Where scientists will speak and educate every sunday. A kind of educational alternative that actually feeds you with facts rather than unproven BS. We could call it the "Church of Science". Oh no, it's been done already. It's a religion called TV, and the sermons run 24/7.

All hail the modern days!

**wynn** · 04-13-12, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by universaldistress

Maybe we should form places of worship where we can all go and praise the majesty of Science. Where scientists will speak and educate every sunday. A kind of educational alternative that actually feeds you with facts rather than unproven BS. We could call it the "Church of Science". Oh no, it's been done already. It's a religion called TV, and the sermons run 24/7.

All hail the modern days!

Oh, the irony.

**Jan Ardena** · 04-13-12, 03:53 AM

gmilam,

Let your conscience be your guide.

What does that mean?

If you think you can be a selfish jerk and still live with yourself - go for it.

So ones only motive for being un-selfish, is survival?

Don't expect to have many friends...

What are ''friends'' from a darwinian perspective?

jan.

**Jan Ardena** · 04-13-12, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by aaqucnaona

Care to present the alternative/your preference?

No need, just take a note from yourself.

jan.

**gmilam** · 04-13-12, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jan Ardena

So ones only motive for being un-selfish, is survival?

Don't know - what is your motive?

**aaqucnaona** · 04-13-12, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jan Ardena

No need, just take a note from yourself.

jan.

What does that even mean? YOU critiqued a perspective, I assume you dont share it. The burden of rejoinder is on you to either explain your critique or present an alternative.

**Saturnine Pariah** · 04-13-12, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by universaldistress

Maybe we should form places of worship where we can all go and praise the majesty of Science. Where scientists will speak and educate every sunday. A kind of educational alternative that actually feeds you with facts rather than unproven BS. We could call it the "Church of Science". Oh no, it's been done already. It's a religion called TV, and the sermons run 24/7.

All hail the modern days!

**Rav** · 04-14-12, 03:06 AM

I'm pretty sure that the comments made by universaldistress were somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

**Saturnine Pariah** · 04-14-12, 05:45 AM

Rav...you're probably right about that.

**Watcher** · 04-14-12, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by aaqucnaona

To all the theists - why do you believe in god? Why do you think people believe in god?
To all first generation atheists - why do you not believe in God? Why do you think people believe in god?

Your questions include so many ill-defined or incomprehensible concepts that they seem imponderable to me.

Before I engage in a discussion with anyone about these topics, I would ask first: have you experienced ego-death, using a reasonably high dose of a psychedelic drug at any point in your life? It's sort of like having to take algebra and trigonometry, before you are ready to tackle calculus.