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Thread: Father of Kidnapped Son gets Revenge

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    I can assure you Asguard, no judge or jury would convict a parent to a jail term if they killed their child's abuser, especially one who kidnapped their child and raped them over the course of a week.
    Friggin amazing Bells.

    You being an officer of the court in Australia (and a DA at that) and ASSURING a fellow Australian that if this unfortunate situation ever presents itself he can kill his child's abuser with absolutely no fear of conviction.

    Shame on you.

  2. #62
    obscurely fossiliferous Stoniphi's Avatar
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    ...there is no statute in Australia or the US which gives a parent an exception to the murder statute...
    Nope, there ain't. I am stating this: If you take away all of my rights or the rights of someone that I am responsible for protecting, then in exchange you have forfeited all of your rights as well - period. Fair is fair, and turnabout is fair play - laws and statutes irregardless.

    I am aware that the same emasculated law may very well 'punish' me for doing what I deem necessary. In the case of someone injuring a family member that I am responsible for protecting, I would then cheerfully deal with whatever LEO chose to do. That would include hiring the most effective attorney I could find and using every trick in the book that a criminal would use to get our of any punishment the (broken) system came up with.

    This response is informative and based on my role as a parent and spouse within the context of my ethics. I understand that someone who is not in my position would likely not be able to relate to my stance. I am seeing the split between parents and non - parents here, an understandable disparity.

    I would strongly urge any and all persons that are considering molesting/raping/kidnapping children to seriously consider that the child's parents will very likely not be concerned about the legality of whatever response they deal out in response if they chose to follow through on that.

  3. #63
    And you will go to jail, so you put your own desire for revenge above that of your child because they will need ypu and you have abandoned them.

  4. #64
    obscurely fossiliferous Stoniphi's Avatar
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    Oh yeah - here is an example of what can happen in these cases, you ought to get a kick out of this story as it is about a nice young fellow who did pretty much what Mr Martial arts instructor did and got "punished" by the system. His name is Leslie Allan Williams, his story is at:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/31/us...-killings.html

  5. #65
    obscurely fossiliferous Stoniphi's Avatar
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    If you have the opportunity to be responsible for a child's safety someday, perhaps you will then understand the difference between executing that responsibility and taking revenge. I understand that you are here to teach, however, not to learn, and that's OK. I have informed you.

  6. #66
    Hmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bells
    I can assure you Asguard, no judge or jury would convict a parent to a jail term if they killed their child's abuser, especially one who kidnapped their child and raped them over the course of a week.
    I think it could very well depend on the circumstances of the killing.

    It is one thing to kill a rapist on the spur of the moment as he comes out of your child's bedroom naked. It may be quite another thing to wait a month or two as he goes through a pre-trail process while in police custody and then shoot him in cold blood.

    No two criminal trials are the same. That is why we have a judge and/or jury to look at the individual facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bells
    Would I sleep better at night knowing he/she was dead [having killed him/her myself]? Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asguard's article
    The results suggest that, despite conventional wisdom, people—at least those with Westernized notions of revenge—are bad at predicting their emotional states following revenge, Carlsmith says. The reason revenge may stoke anger's flames may lie in our ruminations, he says. When we don't get revenge, we're able to trivialize the event, he says. We tell ourselves that because we didn't act on our vengeful feelings, it wasn't a big deal, so it's easier to forget it and move on. But when we do get revenge, we can no longer trivialize the situation. Instead, we think about it. A lot.
    "Rather than providing closure, it does the opposite: It keeps the wound open and fresh," he says.

    Source

  7. #67
    Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle CptBork's Avatar
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    A few years ago a cousin and some close friends of mine were smoking weed in a park late at night and got attacked by a youth gang with machetes held right at their throats (my cousin needed a tetanus shot because the knives were held close enough to cause cuts). Was in a relatively "safe" neighbourhood, too. They were beaten, tied up and thrown in the trunk of a car belonging to one of these friends, which was then stolen, taken on a joy ride and trashed while they were still stuffed inside. They were finally dumped out in the countryside, still tied up with nothing but their underwear, and my cousin's girlfriend was nearly raped (apparently, a female hanging out with the youth gang wisely persuaded them not to go that far at the last minute). Heck, for all I know there could have been even more to it that they don't want to talk about for obvious reasons.

    My brother took some of the victims for a drive a few days later looking for the perpetrators, and actually found one of them in the same park because the idiot was stupid enough to return to the scene of the crime. They called in the police who then arrested the perpetrator, then naturally he ratted out his gangmates, and they all ended up in court. The perpetrators received only a few months of juvenile detention and the prospect of having their criminal records cleaned at age 18, and I have no doubt there were others (i.e. their legal guardians) who very well knew about such actions and sheltered these punks from initial police searches but were never questioned or charged as such.

    Considering the severity of the crime and the relatively lax punishment, myself and all the other friends and relatives of the victims were pretty outraged about it. Recently though, I found out that my cousin's family had good connections inside the legal system and made sure this youth gang had their brains bashed out in detention, probably by the security guards themselves or some other inmate who'd then be rewarded under the table for his services (very common in prison systems apparently). So let's just cut the crap about living by the law and acknowledge that our "lawful" western society is still very much lawless, even here in "peaceful, friendly" Canada. Plenty of criminal attorneys and judges here will tell you that too if you know them well and speak to them off the record.

    If the justice system had openly done its job and taken care to exact the appropriate measures to compensate the victims and secure the public, there would have been no need for the jailyard politics. If our justice systems didn't have some method of making violent crime extremely undesirable, which they unfortunately still do under the table while officially giving wrist slaps and releasing prisoners with an almost 100% chance of recommitting ("See you next week" is the standard guards' greeting when they're released), I don't think it would be safe to walk the streets in my own neighbourhood at night without at least carrying a set of brass knuckles. In fact, incidents like that and plenty of others which hit close to home make me seriously question whether Canadians shouldn't be given gun and concealed carry rights like those enjoyed in the US. The gangs certainly enjoy such rights.

    Yes, let's talk about the subject of how effective our Canadian prison systems are for humane treatment of prisoners and consistency of the "rule of law"... Guards are required to stand there and watch prison rapes in progress without intervening unless the victims specifically cry for help, and I wonder what happens to the victims if they do indeed try to resist- can anyone guess? And I haven't even touched on the subject of where the traffic police tend to position their checkstops on those special nights when the judges and attorneys all go out for softball and drinks.

    Frankly, violent crime against the defenseless completely messes up their brain chemistry, and they'll never feel safe again for their entire lives. If the victims feel revenge helps them feel even a little bit safer, I wouldn't personally have anything against it. Stoniphi has it bang on- if you choose to undermine the very foundations of civil society and eliminate the most basic of other peoples' rights, and you know full well what you're doing, then you no longer deserve to have those same rights afforded to you in turn.

  8. #68
    Guards are required to stand there and watch prison rapes in progress without intervening unless the victims specifically cry for help
    Nonono, this is wrong. Guards stop rape, and they stop sex too.

  9. #69
    Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle CptBork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Search & Destroy View Post
    Nonono, this is wrong. Guards stop rape, and they stop sex too.
    They can't legally identify it as rape unless they have a specific, clear indication of lack of consent. Otherwise, they have to at least wait until the action is finished before doing anything to intervene, and sex in itself is only considered an "institutional infraction" at worst, which doesn't specifically necessitate any form of harsh discipline. In Canada the prisoners are issued condoms- hmmm, why would they bother doing that if everyone's under careful watch and severely punished for consensual sex?

    Another trick I've heard guards employ is if there's a prisoner they really don't like for whatever reason, they like to take them into elevators where they're surrounded by officers who are then free to jab their nightsticks into the prisoners' ribs with no visible motions to be caught on camera. You can always say "such and such doesn't happen" until it happens (yet again).

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    I will ask you this Arthur, if you heard your child crying in the night and found a naked person coming out of their room where they had been molesting your child, what would your first reaction be? The Australian couple who had this happen to them beat the individual to a pulp as he tried to escape, after having molested their 3 year old daughter in her bed and he had tried to stifle her cries in the process. Thankfully, her mother heard her and they went to investigate and found what they found. This man then threatens to kill your child and you and your spouse. I'll put it this way, if that was my child, he would not have made it out of my house alive. That is a surety.
    How could you be so sure? It would really be no surprise at all if such a thug will actually carry some sort of a weapon and use it once he's caught in the act or, at the latest, while being attacked. In such a case you'll be lucky if you yourself walk out alive of such a nightmarish situation. (Unless, of course, you are actually sleeping with a gun under your pillow and take it with you every time you hear your children crying in the other room.)

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