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Thread: China plans manned moon mission

  1. #1
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    China plans manned moon mission

    Tentative plans to land a man on the moon have been outlined in a document published by the Chinese government that confirms the nation's intention to become a major spacefaring nation. Officials in China have spoken before of their hopes for a crewed lunar mission, but the government document is the first to state the aim as a formal goal for the nation's space agency.

    Details of the plan – which would see a human walk on the moon for the first time since Apollo 17 in December 1972 – were published in a white paper that serves as a roadmap for the next five years of Chinese space exploration.

    It says China will "push forward human spaceflight projects and make new technological breakthroughs, creating a foundation for future human spaceflight", and describes preparations for orbiting laboratories, space stations and studies that underpin "the preliminary plan for a human lunar landing".

    "Assuming the Chinese are serious, which recent history suggests they are, then I believe the impact could be game-changing," said Professor Ken Pounds, a leading figure in UK space research at Leicester University.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...RQ9kq28t-IawzQ

  2. #2
    The question is, what will west, or more specificly USA do, to stop China at a limite in order that China don't make any possible economical or political threat against it?

  3. #3
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    The question is, what will west, or more specificly USA do, to stop China at a limite
    What's a limite?

    If your asking if America should prevent China from space exploration I'd think that's not going to happen. Why prevent anyone to explore just because there might be some kind of a phobia as to why they are doing it? China didn't prevent America from space exploration did it? Perhaps one day when everyone tries to work together we can all strive for a combined space exploration effort so that not just one country has to have the burden of paying for everything.

  4. #4
    Life is Fatal. Bowser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    What's a limite?

    If your asking if America should prevent China from space exploration I'd think that's not going to happen. Why prevent anyone to explore just because there might be some kind of a phobia as to why they are doing it? China didn't prevent America from space exploration did it? Perhaps one day when everyone tries to work together we can all strive for a combined space exploration effort so that not just one country has to have the burden of paying for everything.
    It would be good to see a global effort. If anything, the US should be assisting them in the effort.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    What's a limite?

    If your asking if America should prevent China from space exploration I'd think that's not going to happen. Why prevent anyone to explore just because there might be some kind of a phobia as to why they are doing it? China didn't prevent America from space exploration did it? Perhaps one day when everyone tries to work together we can all strive for a combined space exploration effort so that not just one country has to have the burden of paying for everything.
    Exactly.

    Even more importantly, the ridiculous costs of space exploration--regardless of how wealthy China is in the next century†--will mean that, eventually, all space-faring nations will stumble on the same idea: regional or (better yet) global alliances to fund such exploration. To have a solvent manned exploration of the moon and solar system, would--right now--require an annual expenditure of $100 billion. The US could flip it on its own--right now--but that would mean scrapping a good chunk of defense. Don't count on it (despite that being a pipe-dream of mine).

    More than likely, the nation states will agree to create alliances, as we already have, to accomplish these goals.

    ~String

    __________________________________________________ ___________
    [1]Keeping in mind China's abrasive relationship with South Korea, the US, Japan and Vietnam; and China's historically less than cozy relationship with India and Russia will mean massive expenditures on its military, [2] its growing need to fuel its economic engines--thus creating more possible friction with competitors (esp. India), will add to the need to fund that military, [3] it's aging population which will put pressure on the "one child policy", thus crowding its limited land more--requiring secure import of food sources, will further require China to spend money securing trade with Africa (military + foreign aid), [4] the tapering off of its economic growth due to rising wages domestically and lowering of demand internationally, [4] the rising cost of caring for their poor, retired and social demands for services by the public, and [6] (finally) China's exponential spending growth on domestic policing (with estimates putting it at $100 [here] billion now and doubling in 20 years, which is 1/3 higher than what the USA spends on domestic policing ~ $75 billion per year), will all mean that--regardless of the wealth pouring in--there won't be money sitting around to pour into the space race.
    Last edited by superstring01; 01-07-12 at 04:12 PM.

  6. #6

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    What's a limite?

    If your asking if America should prevent China from space exploration I'd think that's not going to happen. Why prevent anyone to explore just because there might be some kind of a phobia as to why they are doing it? China didn't prevent America from space exploration did it? Perhaps one day when everyone tries to work together we can all strive for a combined space exploration effort so that not just one country has to have the burden of paying for everything.
    That's not what I meant, what will USA do to put some limits for this "Asian dragon" that may be the world leading country, not just in economy, but also in politics (wich it is not likely to replace USA anytime soon), it may be little off-topic this question.

    As for space exploration, I'm absolutly for, esspecially that many countries start space expoloration and as you said, less costs and better exploration.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow1 View Post
    That's not what I meant, what will USA do to put some limits for this "Asian dragon" that may be the world leading country, not just in economy, but also in politics (wich it is not likely to replace USA anytime soon), it may be little off-topic this question.
    Nothing.

    The USA doesn't have that much power (in case you haven't noticed, we're sort of out of money and the socio-political willpower to engage actual dangerous nations who are a 20th as powerful as China), nor would it have a legal leg to stand on. China can do whatever it wants in space, so long as "low earth orbit" is not militarized.

    I know it's fun to make the USA out to be a pure-evil nation, but how could the USA stop China if it wanted to, which it doesn't? The space race has largely been an innocuous one between nations (remember: even at the height of the Cold War, the USA could not and did not do a thing to stop the USSR, and they were a REAL threat to the USA).

    ~String

  8. #8
    I'm just going for a walk... ElectricFetus's Avatar
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    All I see is a prestige issue here. If China returns to the moon before the USA does it will be "proof" of its supremesy to the USA. The blow to the American ego would be tremendous. Americans would have to accept they are no longer "#1". Technically if China does do it I don't see any actual physical problem, in fact I encourage it: Americans deserve to be challenge and loss, hopefully learning some god dam humility and stop spending obsessively on global military domination. China's plans could even spark another space race which would be exciting and would renew interest in space exploration and education.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricFetus View Post
    All I see is a prestige issue here. If China returns to the moon before the USA does it will be "proof" of its supremesy to the USA. The blow to the American ego would be tremendous. Americans would have to accept they are no longer "#1". Technically if China does do it I don't see any actual physical problem, in fact I encourage it: Americans deserve to be challenge and loss, hopefully learning some god dam humility and stop spending obsessively on global military domination. China's plans could even spark another space race which would be exciting and would renew interest in space exploration and education.
    Yeah! It does seem like we do better when were in high stakes competition. Much of what they know about space they got from us and Russia. If I was them I'd want keep prodding both the U.S. and Russia to keep doing most of the work.

  10. #10
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricFetus View Post
    All I see is a prestige issue here. If China returns to the moon before the USA does it will be "proof" of its supremesy to the USA.
    Proof? What are you talking about? China was 50 years behind America and Russia back when both countries were sending both robotic spacecraft and manned spacecraft to the moon. China now, 50 years later , is trying to ATTEMPT to reach the moon and as yet hasn't even put a man into orbit in a space station let alone build one. Please do not underestimate China for I think they are very capable of NOW trying to make a space program capable of perhaps reaching the moon if all goes well. I still believe that China should try to work with other countries to get vital information they need to work TOGETHER with other countries to work together to reach a goal of MARS not the MOON.

  11. #11
    I'm just going for a walk... ElectricFetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KilljoyKlown View Post
    Yeah! It does seem like we do better when were in high stakes competition. Much of what they know about space they got from us and Russia. If I was them I'd want keep prodding both the U.S. and Russia to keep doing most of the work.
    eeeh, that work is mostly done, the technology to building a moon rocket (a super heavy lifter) is literally 50 year old, its the cost that is the problem, is china willing to pay the price? Is America once truly threaten by china willing to pay the price? We will see if this whole privatized space travel thing works out in this decade, and US government space travel is now dead (the USA is clearly at present not willing to pay the price). If privatized space travel works to provide cheaper yet profitable space travel I'm pretty sure the US will be in a position by the time China is close to returning to the moon to race china, and even win.
    Last edited by ElectricFetus; 01-07-12 at 07:33 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricFetus View Post
    eeeh, that work is mostly done, the technology to building a moon rocket (a super heavy lifter) is literally 50 year old, its the cost that is the problem, is china willing to pay the price? Is America once truly threaten by china willing to pay the price? We will see if this whole privatized space travel thing works out in this decade, and US government space travel is now dead (the USA is clearly at present not willing to pay the price). If privatized space travel works to provide cheaper yet profitable space travel I'm pretty sure the US will be in a position by the time China is close to returning to the moon to race china, and even win.
    Yes I agree, and if we don't let Iran suck us into another war, we should be ready to ramp both NASA and the private sector space programs in a few years.

  13. #13
    I'm just going for a walk... ElectricFetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Proof? What are you talking about?
    Hence the quotation marks... Jeez! Sputnik was a psychological blow not a physical one, likewise china landing on the moon while Americans are still earth bound would be incredibly damaging to the American psych, regardless if China is still economically, militarily or even scientifically and technologically inferior in every other category.

    China was 50 years behind America and Russia back when both countries were sending both robotic spacecraft and manned spacecraft to the moon. China now, 50 years later , is trying to ATTEMPT to reach the moon and as yet hasn't even put a man into orbit in a space station let alone build one.
    And the USA can't even put people in orbit anymore, China technically has at present superior space-fairing infrastructure! I don't think it matters what china or the USA or Russia was 50 years ago, what matters is now or more so what capacity the USA and China will have in 10-20 years, not what was long ago in long past glory days. By similar analogy the US had nothing compared to the British Empire 200 years ago, yet time change that. Heck by 1920 it was inconceivable that Germany would be able to start another war or even be a significant threat again, it took less then 20 years for that to turn around 180 degrees!

    Please do not underestimate China for I think they are very capable of NOW trying to make a space program capable of perhaps reaching the moon if all goes well.
    If China progresses as they are now they should be on the pad for a lunar landing by 2030.

    I still believe that China should try to work with other countries to get vital information they need to work TOGETHER with other countries to work together to reach a goal of MARS not the MOON.
    That will happen only after significant political improvement in china, at present china has a "go it alone, we are or will be the leader of the world mentality".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricFetus View Post
    And the USA can't even put people in orbit anymore, China technically has at present superior space-fairing infrastructure!
    No it doesn't and you're mixing terms.

    In terms of infrastructure (funding + facilities) the USA is way ahead of anybody. The USA does not have a rocket that it cares to use right now, but it still has access to every remaining shuttle and the plans for many other rockets. The only difference is that China has a streemlined political process. The USA is mired in political infighting.

    Personally, I don't see the point in going to low earth orbit anymore. It's pointless. Until the technological and logistical costs come down, the USA needs to dump its $18 billion per year into robotic missions to the outer worlds. That, would reveal something and would advance the sciences more.

    ~String

  15. #15
    I'm just going for a walk... ElectricFetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superstring01 View Post
    No it doesn't and you're mixing terms.

    In terms of infrastructure (funding + facilities) the USA is way ahead of anybody. The USA does not have a rocket that it cares to use right now, but it still has access to every remaining shuttle and the plans for many other rockets. The only difference is that China has a streemlined political process. The USA is mired in political infighting.
    What terms? China launched more Satellites in orbit last year then the USA did. http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1112/22longmarch/

    Re-activating the spaceshuttle would be so expensive its practically impossible, might as well ask for re-activating the Saturn V. At present the USA has NO manned spaced capability even if it cared to use it, it is still years away from such capability from private contractors. China on the other hand has just launched their own spacestation, a tiny one mind you, and will dock a crew to it this year.

    Personally, I don't see the point in going to low earth orbit anymore. It's pointless. Until the technological and logistical costs come down, the USA needs to dump its $18 billion per year into robotic missions to the outer worlds. That, would reveal something and would advance the sciences more.
    I don't disagree, my problem is on what could have been. Had Nixon and the congress of the late 60's early 70's not scraped the Saturn V and not waste hundreds of billions on that now dead albatross that was the spaceshuttle, we would not be talking about going back to the moon right now, we would likely have a manned station on the moon, even been to mars by now in place of those wonderful robots. Because we failed to develop the infrastructure, technology is rapidly letting us give space to man's successor. I agree give space to the machines, talking monkeys in space is a ridiculous idea, aside for their crazy demands for food, air, water, living space, gravity, etc, etc, they are just so god dam incompetent.

  16. #16
    . . . . u-h-h-h . . . but, WHAT IF China plans to establish a 'permanent' base on the moon? . . . and then claim it (moon) as a 'territory' of China . . . .??

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by wlminex View Post
    . . . . u-h-h-h . . . but, WHAT IF China plans to establish a 'permanent' base on the moon? . . . and then claim it (moon) as a 'territory' of China . . . .??
    I saw that hype, but don't believe it. I didn't get any response to my Hawking post so please listen to the audio.

    Great article with an audio made by Stephen Hawking. I agree with what he says, but with less optimism than he has.

    http://bigthink.com/ideas/41816?utm_...m_medium=email

  18. #18
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Hence the quotation marks... Jeez! Sputnik was a psychological blow not a physical one, likewise china landing on the moon while Americans are still earth bound would be incredibly damaging to the American psych, regardless if China is still economically, militarily or even scientifically and technologically inferior in every other category.
    How's that?

    If China can send a man to the moon after America already has why would that create any paranoid reactions from American citizens? The only damage is that created by the media who always puts a inflamatory remark about anything they can to get people excited over things they really don't need to be.

  19. #19
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlminex View Post
    . . . . u-h-h-h . . . but, WHAT IF China plans to establish a 'permanent' base on the moon? . . . and then claim it (moon) as a 'territory' of China . . . .??
    More hype by the media to cause unnecessary excitement over something that isn't true. We all know that America has laid claim to all the universe and its minerals, where have you been?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wlminex View Post
    . . . . u-h-h-h . . . but, WHAT IF China plans to establish a 'permanent' base on the moon? . . . and then claim it (moon) as a 'territory' of China . . . .??
    Let'em have it.

    They can spend the trillions (which they won't) and the rest of the world can benefit. Let them bankrupt themselves in the effort. The US should be developing robotic missions.

    ~String

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