Atheists also believe in souls

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Pineal, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Pineal Banned Banned

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    Most atheists believe in souls

    This comes out of the ethics in belief thread where a number of atheists are speculating that the reason theists believe in an afterlife is fear of death.

    Most atheists believe that they will persist through 'their' lifetime.
    Even those who are physicalists (or materialists), which is most of them, and know that all the matter in their bodies will be replaced in a much shorter period than most of their lives, still they hold this irrational belief that they, for example, will experience retirement, or that the 10 years old 'they were' was the same experiencer.

    These people are all aware, through computer science or use of computers, that it is easy to copy information. That we can even make two copies (or more) of the entire memory of our computer's memories and this does not mean that both of these copies are the original. They know that the matter - which is all that exists in their world-view - is completely replaced in their bodies - is it every 7 years.

    Yet they spend at least most of their time living with the delusion of a continuous self - further note: they do not speak or think of a 'sort of me', or a 60% me, even though there are huge changes in mass, memories, habits from a 10 year old to an adult.

    Given the speculating without evidence in the other thread, I will now speculate that the reason atheists believe in the continuous self is that they are afraid of the implicit termination - if analogic - in their own world-view. One that comes by degrees much faster than the termination of what is essentially a not at all exact copy in old age.

    This is a kind of belief in souls.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    No it isn't.

    I perfectly accept that my personality has changed as I have aged. I do not accept the notion of a persistent soul.
     
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  5. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Same here.
     
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  7. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    My personality is noticeably different from what it was a year ago, let alone any longer than that.
     
  8. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    If personalities didn't change, then we wouldn't be conscious. The part of the definition of soul that I disagree with is the belief that it lasts past death. There's no evidence of this.
     
  9. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    What is the difference between "you" and "your personality"?

    How do you tell which is "you" and which is "your personality"?
     
  10. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Does it matter? Neither is the soul.
     
  11. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @Wynn --

    Functionally nothing, but my theistic habits are hard to kick.
     
  12. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    By saying things like

    or

    you are implying that "you" and "your personality" are two different phenomena, and that there is a "you" that is permanent and which can thus notice that "your personality" has changed (an impermanent or non-substantial "you" could not notice changes, as it itself would be subject to change).


    In some people's views, that "you" is the "soul."
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Well, that's their problem I guess.
     
  14. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @wynn --

    Yeah yeah, pardon us for being brought up in a culture(and likely by parents) who buy into that "mind/body dichotomy" bullshit. Like I said, old habits are hard to kick. Do I still speak and write as though my mind and body are separate? Yes, sometimes(I'm a writer, writing in common parlance makes getting paid easier). Do I actually believe that my mind and body are separate? Not at all.
     
  15. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think they have a problem with that.
     
  16. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    That wasn't meant in a literal way of course.
    What they do appear to have a problem with is the fact that not everyone believes in a soul.
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    It does seem that you have a problem with them appearing to have a problem with is the fact that not everyone believes in a soul.
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, the self is an illusion, and it's this self that is the source of the illusion of a soul as well.

    Also this:

    Neurons in the cerebral cortex are never replaced. There are no neurons added to your cerebral cortex after birth. Any cerebral cortex neurons that die are not replaced.
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I have somewhat of a problem with people telling me what I believe, according to them, when it is not actually so.
     
  20. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    I find it interesting that I am able to visualize performing any task before I actually embark upon doing it. That I can place myself outside the building in the cold, while posting this reply, does not answer your questions.

    I was not able to do this as readily when I was in my twenties, as example. Had I been able to visualize better some of my intentions, perhaps I may have made different choices in some cases.

    My 'personality' is my own 'virtual perspective' of myself, created by the brain in response to the assimilation of all that my biology has experienced, even unto generating multiple perspectives of a future potential that may aid me in making choices and decisions.

    That's my present take on matters, subject to change as new data becomes available.
     
  21. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    None. Me, my personality and my mind are all different names for the same phenomenon. The blob of consciousness that feels like "me".

    As far as I can tell, it's a temporary phenomenon attached to the body that I also call "me".
     
  22. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Then how can you produce sentences like

    or

    and consider them meaningful?
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    The essential difference is that the self is not supernatural, there is at least a certain continuity to one's body and life experience, they can be observed.
     

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