The Obama File

[quadraphonics]

The thing is that you only have substantive things to say about Corzine and his doings: the putative link to Obama is entirely insinuation. You go on and on about details of Corzine emails, and then try to browbeat joe with naked insinuations. I.e., the supposedly topicality here is very tenuous and looks for all the world like a tactic. So, again, I say that you should just make a thread on Corzine if that's the only substance you're going to discuss.

Moreover, you only even know about the donation links to Obama because Obama is more open about such disclosures than Romney is. We can be pretty certain that Romney has major campaign funding backers from the vulture capitalist set, but he isn't disclosing who they are. So your attempt to paint Obama as corrupt, based as it is on Obama's greater, voluntary transparency, appears to be mendacious on its face.

[joepistole]

Do you even believe your own BS Joe?

Just because you don’t like a little dose of reality, it does not follow that it is BS.

An email was sent a few days prior authorizing money be taken from segregated accounts by Jon Corzone, the CEO, who was running a carry trade bet and then the money was taken. THAT'S WAY MORE EVIDENCE than is needed to go to trial. Normally now is when the investigators would offer immunity to the people under Corzine and they'd testify at trial. But, instead the crook Corzine was given a CONgressional hearing that for 99% of Americans meant something was being done and let go. No further investigation.

You are playing fast and loose with reality again – taking material out of context and misrepresenting it. Here is another dose of reality for you in regard to the “memo”.

“NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Congressional investigators say former MF Global CEO Jon Corzine ordered a $200 million transfer out of the firm in its final days, raising further questions about what he knew of some $1.6 billion missing from customer accounts.

In a memo made public on Friday, staff from the House Financial Services Committee cited an internal email from MF Global assistant treasurer Edith O'Brien saying that the $200 million transfer came "Per JC's [Jon Corzine's] direct instructions." This money, sent to JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) to cover an overdraft, came from customer accounts, the memo says.

The memo does not say whether Corzine knew if the transfer in question included customer property. Testifying under oath before the House Financial Services Committee in December, Corzine acknowledged ordering this transfer to resolve the overdraft but said he had no indication that the funds belonged to customers.

"I contacted the firm's back office in Chicago, and others, and asked them to resolve this issue, which I understood they did," said Corzine, a former governor and senator from New Jersey. Later in the day, he added, JPMorgan staff contacted him to make sure that the fund transfer did not violate industry rules.

"Since I had no personal knowledge of the issue, I asked senior people in the back office and the legal department to become directly involved in responding to JPMorgan Chase's request," he said. "I had explicit statements that we were using proper funds, both orally and in writing, to the best of my knowledge."

"I never gave any instruction to misuse customer funds, I never intended anyone at MF Global to misuse customer funds, and I don't believe that anything I said could reasonably be interpreted as an instruction to misuse customer funds," he added.

Still, the investigators' memo is prompting further speculation about who in MF Global's management knew that client funds were misused and whether or not Corzine was telling the truth. Corzine has claimed that he did not know that client funds were missing until October 30, two days after the transfer to JPMorgan.

Steven Goldberg, a spokesman for Corzine, said in a statement Friday evening that Corzine "stands by" his testimony before Congress.

"He never directed Ms. O'Brien or anyone else regarding which account should be used to cure the overdrafts, and he never directed that customer funds should be used for that purpose," Goldberg said. "To the contrary, as Mr. Corzine testified, he recalls having received written material indicating that the funds used to cure the overdrafts were appropriate for that purpose.".” CNN

Why?

How do you know there has been no further investigation? Is it the same way you claim to know everything else? And where else do they go?

Oh, could it be Corzine gave $3 million to CONgress and was Obama's BIGGEST campaign donor?

Again where is your evidence Corzine gave 3 million dollars to congress? You have repeatedly failed to cough up the evidence. You just keep repeating yourself ad nauseum. That does not turn a lie in to a truth.

We know $1.6 BILLION is missing - why isn't someone in prison Joe? Why isn't there a trial Joe? And you sit there with a straight face and say you want "money out of politics" and "are for justice". What a total load of shit. There's not going to be any change in Washington because it's a reflection of the moral bankruptcy that has become middle America.

Well as I have told you several times before there is this little thing called the Bill of Rights that entitles everyone to the due process of law. We just don’t throw people in jail because someone wakes up with a hair up their rectum.
`

If you wrote and email saying Michael has authorized the theft and then the theft occurred, and I'm the leader of a gang - you can bet your ass I'd be investigated. Particularly if it was one of the BIGGEST thefts in the HISTORY of the USA. Again Joe, $1.6 BILLION is missing - why isn't there a trial? Why aren't the people from MF Global being given immunity or deals being made so that they testify in court?

And Corzine was investigated, by Congress. An investigation in this country is not the same as a conviction. If you have proof that Corzine did something criminal it is long past time that you show it. I am sure Justice would be happy to hear from you if you had said evidence. But until you can produce evidence of criminal culpability on Corzine’s part, your allegations in this regard have all the weight of another Big Foot sighting.

[Michael]

Moreover, you only even know about the donation links to Obama because Obama is more open about such disclosures than Romney is. We can be pretty certain that Romney has major campaign funding backers from the vulture capitalist set, but he isn't disclosing who they are. So your attempt to paint Obama as corrupt, based as it is on Obama's greater, voluntary transparency, appears to be mendacious on its face.

Who said anything about Mittens not being corrupt? I am 100% sure he's as corrupt as the rest of the politicians.

Two wolves and a sheep voting over what's for dinner and Mark Twain made it clear who's the sheep.

[Billy T]

The internet is generally filled with idiocy and hyperbole, and you yourself note the obvious motive for hucksterism among exactly the posts you describe there, so...

Yes, anytime many people have some fear, there will be a lot of people trying to make money off of them (In days gone by,sometimes with snake oil medicines) but now with internet distributed advice for a fee. We agree on that. My point was that 6 years ago when I sounded the alarm in posts here, most people thought the economy was in great shape. These new comers to "gloom and doom" forecast did not exist as very few held my POV 6+ years ago with real estate values soaring up.

... Which raises the question: what, exactly, would have to occur for you to conclude that your predictions of hyperinflation are incorrect?

Mainy a fall in the rate of increase in deficits (federal, state and local) to less than twice the rate of longer lasting GDP growth OR the growth rate of the "primary governmental deficits" dropping down to the growth rate of the long lasting GDP. i.e. something at least vaguely resembling "a pay as you go" system instead of the current assumption that our children can pay any debt we leave them.

If this doesn't occur by the end of 2014, will you concede that you were mistaken?

Certainly I will admit I got the exact end point wrong 7+ years in advance, but "by or before Halloween 2014" still looks reasonably accurate to me, especially since the FED has recognized it cannot suppress interest rates to near zero beyond that. (As interest rates climb, bonds drop in value and China does not want to lose half the value of its reserves so will be in there selling with the rest of US bond holders trying to get out in a panic before even greater losses occur.)

If it turns out that I was approximately right (say run on dollar comes before end of 2015) will you admit that you were wrong to call me many names, like senile, etc. and apologize. - I.e. admit I made an amazing long range forecast very accurately when many, you included, thought it was silly / impossible to be correct?

[Michael]

Joe,

Obama got the most money in donations from Corzine. Corzine was a Governor and US Senator. The US Senate did NOT investigate him he was questioned few a few minutes and left. He still has his HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars he raped off the American public helping to destroy our economy and all the while the Farmer's he stole from lost their money.

If Obama truly represented the Citizens then he'd at the very MINIMUM ensure that an impartial investigation was conducted. But, Obama's a narcissist like the rest of them and couldn't give two shits about the American people. His handlers put together propaganda video's like "Julia's World" and even THAT (which I found sickening) isn't true - he couldn't give two shits about people like Julia. What he cares about is what all politicians care about: Access to Money and Power. Which is why they're so easily bought off by sociopathic criminals like Corzine.

26 JULY 2012

Documents uncovered by the Government Accountability Institute reveal that “now-defunct MF Global was a client of Attorney General Eric Holder and Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer’s former law firm, Covington & Burling.”

Furthermore, MF Global’s bankruptcy trustee hired the former law firm of Associate Attorney General Tony West. The trustee is former FBI director Louis Freeh, who hired Eric Holder as a trial counsel when Freeh was working as the general counsel for MBNA America Bank in the early 2000s. Freeh was a character witness at Holder’s Senate confirmation hearings for the Attorney General position.

The tight web of connections between Justice officials and the banking industry have led many members of Congress to demand a special prosecutor to investigate the MF Global collapse. It looks like one more affair that Eric Holder’s politicized Justice Department cannot be trusted to investigate.

All the evidence is staring you in the face Joe. Obama Junior is a bumbling narcissistic douche no different than Romney or Bush Junior or Bush Senor. What happened to ending the War? What happened to shutting down Gitmo? What happened about holding the Banks responsible. Jesus, are Americans THIS moronic? I guess so.

I'm going to enjoy watching the next few years. We Americans get everything that's coming to us.

[Cavalier]

I think "raped off the American people" is a bit much, as what seems more likely is that he arrogantly sent good client money in to bail out his ridiculously bad investment, an to hell with his clients or the "law" that said that was illegal. That could be called a theft, but it's hardly a rape. Legally, even calling it a theft may be a bit much, since we know who he paid that money to, and yet we're not likely to see that money come back. It's a breach of fiduciary duty, and the punishment will be limited unless people can make a case against Corzine directly (though it seems likely to me that they will).

As for hiring Covington & Burling and other major law firms...that is not much of anything. There are not that many "elite" law firms in the country, and in the DC market, Covington is probably the most elite. Wealthy people and firms hire big name law firms, and there's a small pool of those. It's like being shocked that there are so many connections between the Treasury and Goldman Sachs. There are not that many elite i-banks, so you have to expect those connections.

[joepistole]

Joe,

Obama got the most money in donations from Corzine. Corzine was a Governor and US Senator. The US Senate did NOT investigate him he was questioned few a few minutes and left. He still has his HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars he raped off the American public helping to destroy our economy and all the while the Farmer's he stole from lost their money.

Ok, where is the evidence? As I pointed out to you before, campaign donations to individual candidates from individuals are limited to $2,500 per candidate per election. You have been repeating this crap over and over and always failed to produce the least smidgen of credible evidence to back this nonsense. And the reason you have not been able to back up this claim is because it is patently false.

Corzine’s fate is of great interest to Democrats and Obama. He has given nearly 3 million dollars in soft money. He is a former governor of New Jersey, a man Obama campaigned for against eventual winner Chris Christie.

Corzine didn’t donate anywhere near the 3 million dollars you claimed he did. And what money Corzine and his wife did donate to Obama was returned to them. Corzine and his wife donated a total of $5,000, the maximum allowed by law, and $30,800 each to the Democratic National Committee. That is a far cry from the 3 million dollars you have claimed.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...donations.html

If Obama truly represented the Citizens then he'd at the very MINIMUM ensure that an impartial investigation was conducted. But, Obama's a narcissist like the rest of them and couldn't give two shits about the American people. His handlers put together propaganda video's like "Julia's World" and even THAT (which I found sickening) isn't true - he couldn't give two shits about people like Julia. What he cares about is what all politicians care about: Access to Money and Power. Which is why they're so easily bought off by sociopathic criminals like Corzine.

Again where is your evidence that President Obama did not ensure that an impartial investigation has not occurred? And we have already been through your nonsensical claims about the Julia slideshow.

JULY 2012
All the evidence is staring you in the face Joe. Obama Junior is a bumbling narcissistic douche no different than Romney or Bush Junior or Bush Senor. What happened to ending the War? What happened to shutting down Gitmo? What happened about holding the Banks responsible. Jesus, are Americans THIS moronic? I guess so.

I'm going to enjoy watching the next few years. We Americans get everything that's coming to us.

Your opinion about Obama is just that an opinion rendered on your biases and you are certainly entitled to it. What happened to the wars you ask? One has ended, the Iraq war is now a matter of history. And the Afghanistan war will come to a close next year with the withdrawal of US combat forces. That was a pretty easy question to answer. As for Gitmo, who the Hell cares? And holding the banks accountable was one of the reasons for the Dodd-Frank banking reregulation which is now the law of the land thanks to President Obama and his fellow Democrats.

[quadraphonics]

Mainy a fall in the rate of increase in deficits (federal, state and local) to less than twice the rate of longer lasting GDP growth OR the growth rate of the "primary governmental deficits" dropping down to the growth rate of the long lasting GDP. i.e. something at least vaguely resembling "a pay as you go" system instead of the current assumption that our children can pay any debt we leave them.

But, your prediction is about hyperinflation and not about the trajectory of the national debt per se. If the hyperinflation does not occur, doesn't that mean that your prediction is wrong, irrespective of the trajectory of the national debt? You seem to be ignoring the possibility that your hypothesized relationship between the trajectory of the national debt and inflation is incorrect.

Certainly I will admit I got the exact end point wrong 7+ years in advance, but "by or before Halloween 2014" still looks reasonably accurate to me, especially since the FED has recognized it cannot suppress interest rates to near zero beyond that.

I have not seen any statements from the Fed expressing such a recognition. The statements I have seen indicate that the Fed intends to hold interest rates down until at least 2014, and has not yet decided whether that will continue beyond that time (implying that such is within the Fed's powers to accomplish, if they decide to do so).

(As interest rates climb, bonds drop in value and China does not want to lose half the value of its reserves so will be in there selling with the rest of US bond holders trying to get out in a panic before even greater losses occur.)

It is rises in inflation that cause bonds to drop in value, not rises in interest rates. Increased interest rates themselves make bonds more attractive to holders - China would have that much more incentive to keep rolling its bonds over, given the increased interest rates.

Possibly you misspoke there and meant to say "inflation" and not "interest rates," but then your conclusion does not follow from your statements about interest rates and you are basically arguing in a circle. So that's unlikely. Perhaps you were referring to the value of existing bonds on the secondary market? It is true that interest rate increases do put downward pressure on the prices of older bonds on the secondary market, but that occurs exactly because bond buyers are diverting their demand into the primary market (i.e., actual purchases of new bonds from the US government) and so does not represent a net decrease in demand for dollars.

Overall, it seems that you are premising your predictions on some unstated mechanisms linking the national debt, interest rates, inflation and dollar bond prices. You should make this stuff explicit if you want credit for your insight and predictive powers, and particularly if you want to claim that events validate your analysis. Right now, I can't really discern what exactly you are expecting to happen, other than "China dumps dollar holdings" and "dollar hyperinflation."

If it turns out that I was approximately right (say run on dollar comes before end of 2015) will you admit that you were wrong to call me many names, like senile, etc. and apologize. - I.e. admit I made an amazing long range forecast very accurately when many, you included, thought it was silly / impossible to be correct?

None of my descriptions of your behavior will be affected in the slightest by such an outcome. Moreover, it would still take a considerable showing of further predictive power - not to mention, an explicit falsifiable hypothesis relating all of the quantities you discuss and so showing the mechanisms by which you expect this stuff to occur - to rise above a "stopped clock is correct twice a day" attribution.

[madanthonywayne]

I'm not sure why they even bothered to take this poll, but the results are interesting. It turns out Obama leads Romney by more than 2 to 1 among non-voters.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79758.html

[Billy T]

... It is rises in inflation that cause bonds to drop in value, not rises in interest rates. Increased interest rates themselves make bonds more attractive to holders ...

That is universally recognized by economists as false. Interest rates rising may make bonds more attractive to new buyers (if they think the higher rates compensate for the higher risk) and usually, like with Italy and Spain today, rising interest rates are what is required to sell NEW bonds. As the interest rates rise, holders of existing bonds see their value decline. I was clearly speaking of existing bonds here:

"... As interest rates climb, bonds drop in value and China does not want to lose half the value of its reserves so will be in there selling with the rest of US bond holders trying to get out in a panic before even greater losses occur. ..."

[quadraphonics]

That is universally recognized by economists as false. Interest rates rising may make bonds more attractive to new buyers (if they think the higher rates compensate for the higher risk) and usually, like with Italy and Spain today, rising interest rates are what is required to sell NEW bonds. As the interest rates rise, holders of existing bonds see their value decline. I was clearly speaking of existing bonds here:

"... As interest rates climb, bonds drop in value and China does not want to lose half the value of its reserves so will be in there selling with the rest of US bond holders trying to get out in a panic before even greater losses occur. ..."

You are blatantly ignoring the subsequent portion of my post there that dealt with exactly that issue:

Perhaps you were referring to the value of existing bonds on the secondary market? It is true that interest rate increases do put downward pressure on the prices of older bonds on the secondary market, but that occurs exactly because bond buyers are diverting their demand into the primary market (i.e., actual purchases of new bonds from the US government) and so does not represent a net decrease in demand for dollars.

I.e., China might well wish to dump its old bonds - in favor of new ones with higher interest rates. That is a wash in terms of net demand for dollars. Moreover, you are in the first place assuming that China cares about the secondary-market value of its bonds, and doesn't intend to simply hold them to maturity to begin with (in which case, what price they'd fetch on the secondary market is irrelevant to their calculations).

Moreover, you are further ignoring my direct question as to what the substance of your predictions here consists of:

Overall, it seems that you are premising your predictions on some unstated mechanisms linking the national debt, interest rates, inflation and dollar bond prices. You should make this stuff explicit if you want credit for your insight and predictive powers, and particularly if you want to claim that events validate your analysis. Right now, I can't really discern what exactly you are expecting to happen, other than "China dumps dollar holdings" and "dollar hyperinflation."

Please come out and state your hypothesized relationship between the quantities that you are addressing: national debt, interest rates, inflation and dollar bond prices (as well as anything else relevant, such as exchange rates, current account flows, growth, etc). Moreover, please state the causal chain of events that you predict will manifest in this relationship and result in dollar hyperinflation. Until you present such a chain of reasoning, you are not presenting us with a substantive model of how these things work and relate to one another, nor a substantive prediction that can be assessed from available data. All we're getting from you right now is a series of disjointed assertions that whatever happenings in some particular statistic validate your larger viewpoint, without any clarity on what exactly that viewpoint consists of and how the statistics in question are held to influence other indicators.

What is your theory of the causes of inflation? How does the money supply relate to inflation, and how do interest rates, national debt, dollar bond prices, etc. figure into the mechanism? What is the causal event that would propagate through that chain of relationships to result in hyperinflation?

[Billy T]

... Please come out and state your hypothesized relationship between the quantities that you are addressing: national debt, interest rates, inflation and dollar bond prices (as well as anything else relevant, such as exchange rates, current account flows, growth, etc). Moreover, please state the causal chain of events that you predict will manifest in this relationship and result in dollar hyperinflation. Until you present such a chain of reasoning, you are not presenting us with a substantive model of how these things work and relate to one another, nor a substantive prediction that can be assessed from available data. ......What is your theory of the causes of inflation? How does the money supply relate to inflation, and how do interest rates, national debt, dollar bond prices, etc. figure into the mechanism? What is the causal event that would propagate through that chain of relationships to result in hyperinflation?

Been there, done that. Here is one time but there are many others:

{post 305 this thread} ... Currently 95+ % of all this fiat paper is out of circulation - most given to banks at near zero cost went back to the treasury via buying of bonds for a sure safe profit to the banks of more than 1% - Why loan to the market or guy with idea for new business with risk of 100% loss?

When bondholders see a slacking off of rich scared Europeans* buying US bonds (The least ugly whore in the whorehouse of international finance, at present) and FED stops buying at least by Halloween 2014, then interest rates will rise to finance the trillion+ annual deficits. I.e. Those bonds in the bank´s vaults will be dropping in value. Bankers are dumb, but not entirely stupid. Those bonds will be sold before they lose even more value in a self accelerating run to get out of dollar assets. Then the many trillions of ALREADY PRINTED money will flood into circulation - making near run a way inflation, not deflation, but also making the world´s worst depression of economic activity in US & EU too. {Only "near" run-a-way inflation because Ben & Mario will not continue the ever greater printing necessary for "full run-a-way" inflation like Germany had - they are capable, I think, of learning from their mistakes.}

Despite it having happened several times (zimbabway most recently) many falsely think it is impossible to have run-a-way inflation when you simultaneously have depression, but depression is not deflation. It is collapse economic activity with few jobs.

* That is certain to happen at least when they have no more funds to switch into dollar based assets. ...

As you still don´t follow me I will state again that it is the CIRCULATING money supply not the total of money existing, that drives inflation. Or as commonly stated "inflation is too much money CHASING (NOT TIED UP AT FED) too few goods and services."

[madanthonywayne]

Obama's "you didn't build that" statement continues to create controversy. A deli owner who was catering for a visit by Obama showed up in this shirt:

And a business owner has posted this sign on Main Street in Broken Arrow:

And a Virginia bakery turned down a request to have VP Biden stop by for a photo op. Why?

McMurray said it was President Obama's recent remarks about small business and who built what.

"Very simply, ‘you didn't build that’” McMurray said. “Speaking of small businesses and entrepreneurs all across this country and actually last night my wife was up all night. No sleep, she's worked a full 24 hours."

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-radf...,4370357.story

If Obama fails to be re-elected, that little comment of his will be a large part of the reason.

[Gustav]

no
romney's bullshit is regurgitated by illiterate hicks

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. (obama)


you did not build the infrastructure that allows your business to flourish
nor did you have to reinvent the wheel or count on your fingers

do get a clue, mad

someone else also inspired obama's comment....

“I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever. No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody.

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.

“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along (e.warren)


the secret service commending the refusal seems contrived and a possible fabrication
of course it is not entirely impossible that the comment was made
after all these are the same guys boozing and fornicating on foreign jaunts

[joepistole]

Obama's "you didn't build that" statement continues to create controversy. A deli owner who was catering for a visit by Obama showed up in this shirt:
And a business owner has posted this sign on Main Street in Broken Arrow:
And a Virginia bakery turned down a request to have VP Biden stop by for a photo op. Why?
If Obama fails to be re-elected, that little comment of his will be a large part of the reason.

Why is it you right wingers feel the need to do everything over the top – talk about drama queens? All that stunt does is demonstrate either his ignorance or his unquestioning acceptance (i.e. ditto head) of right wing deceptions.

If that is all you have, which it is, God help us.

[madanthonywayne]

no
romney's bullshit is regurgitated by illiterate hicks

Illiterate hick's or not, they're probably going to vote. Obama's supporters, on the other hand:

Forty-three percent of nonvoters are Obama supporters, the survey found, while 20 percent of the nonvoters support Romney,

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz23jtUvG3o

Obama is ahead by more than 2 to 1 among non-voters.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. (obama)


you did not build the infrastructure that allows your business to flourish
nor did you have to reinvent the wheel or count on your fingers

do get a clue, mad

Care to put that in context?

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

It's not that you're smart. It's not that you worked hard. It's..........somebody else. Probably a government employee. Obama is clearly disparaging the importance of individual achievement and merit. Spin it all you want. Complain that we're taking it out of context. We're not. You are.

[joepistole]

Illiterate hick's or not, they're probably going to vote. Obama's supporters, on the other hand:
Obama is ahead by more than 2 to 1 among non-voters.

Care to put that in context?

It's not that you're smart. It's not that you worked hard. It's..........somebody else. Probably a government employee. Obama is clearly disparaging the importance of individual achievement and merit. Spin it all you want. Complain that we're taking it out of context. We're not. You are.

And the part you are leaving out is Obama is ahead with likely voters and in the swing states. And yes you are taking President Obama's words out of context and misrepresenting them, and I think you are smart enough to know it.

[joepistole]

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...roves-ryan.php

It is still too early in the campaign. I expect the debates and the conventions will affect the polling. And let's not forget the impact of Republican voter suppression efforts to actively keep legitimate voters from voting in this election just as they have in the past (e.g. Bush v. Gore).

[madanthonywayne]

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...roves-ryan.php

It is still too early in the campaign. I expect the debates and the conventions will affect the polling.

Of course. But why didn't you just delete or edit your previous post when you realized you were wrong?

And let's not forget the impact of Republican voter suppression efforts to actively keep legitimate voters from voting in this election just as they have in the past (e.g. Bush v. Gore).

Ah yes, the evil "show your ID" plot. How will the poor and the downtrodden ever overcome the requirement that they show an ID? Better that 1000 corpses, illegal aliens, and felons should corrupt the vote than one potential voter be inconvenienced by having to show an ID. You should know that solid majorities of every demographic group, every region of the country, and both political parties all support voter ID requirements. Moreover, the public rightly believes that those who oppose such requirements do so for wholely partisan reasons:

In the survey, the Washington Post asked, “In your view, should voters in the United States be required to show official, government-issued photo identification — such as a driver’s license — when they cast ballots on election day, or shouldn’t they have to do this?” Among all adults, 74 percent said voters should present ID, versus 23 percent who said they should not. Among registered voters, the numbers were 75 percent to 23 percent.

The Post poll found support for voter ID extends far and wide. Seventy-six percent of men support it, as do 73 percent of women.

Eighty-eight percent of Republicans support it. Seventy-six percent of independents support it. And 60 percent of Democrats — a solid majority of the president’s party — support it.

Seventy-eight percent of white people support it. Sixty-five percent of black people support it. Sixty-four percent of Hispanics support it.

Every age group supports it by more than 70 percent.

Every income group supports it by more than 70 percent.

Every educational group supports it by more than 70 percent — except those Americans who have gone to graduate school. (They support it by 63 percent.) Among those who have a high school degree or less — according to the Justice Department, the group that might not have a government-issued ID — support is at 76 percent.

All regions of the country support it, from 68 percent in the Northeast to 77 percent in the South.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/eric-h...9#.UC1bpt1lQlC

On a related note, it is interesting that you're already making excuses for Obama's performance......

[spidergoat]

...Ah yes, the evil "show your ID" plot. How will the poor and the downtrodden ever overcome the requirement that they show an ID? Better that 1000 corpses, illegal aliens, and felons should corrupt the vote than one potential voter be inconvenienced by having to show an ID.

On a related note, it is interesting that you're already making excuses for Obama's performance......

No one was corrupting the vote. That's why we object.