10-30-11, 11:47 AM #361
10-30-11, 03:04 PM #362
Just out of pure curiosity, like watching a circus act he kept those watching even who were skeptical.
Now, I believe he will try to claim that he has in fact sold his wonder device and see if he can get anybody with money who hasn't paid close enough attention to sign up. The man has big balls to think he can pull this off.
If he was smart, he should have stuck with the smaller device and sell directly to the consumer after his Jan demo, claim that the big bad science establishment and big oil are keeping this new tech from the world, instead he gambled on a bigger score.
In a prior thread I was sure it was a scam based on the facial expression of Rossi when Lewan asked him a question, the kind of look you get when you ask a car salesman about a car he is selling and he doesn't know the answer. Not from someone who has worked with a device he claimed has run perfectly heating a factory for 2 years.
Here check out this interesting scene from the Oct 28th test.
It's funny at the 44 second mark it looks like Rossi is trying to convince Levi that the scam will work just be patient as if Levi is concerned that they went too big. That was my first impression when I saw the two together just then.
10-30-11, 03:46 PM #363
Such a shame, because if this had've been real, it would've changed the entire world. Humanity needs something like this, and this scammer doesn't care about how sensitive that is, he didn't try something less critical, he went straight for the heart.
10-30-11, 05:44 PM #364
10-30-11, 06:34 PM #365
10-30-11, 07:10 PM #366
At the same time, though, much of the world is already struggling with outrageous energy prices and winter is just beginning to set in the U.S. And every winter we have people die (primarily older folks who are on a fixed income and are also unable to travel to a warm place - and some homeless individual as well) because they cannot afford to pay heating bills.
I do understand what you're saying BUT given what I just said, he's NOT far out of the category I described. And a crook is a crook is a crook - and all crooks belong in jail.
Have you read his criminal history? He's been convicted of crimes more than once. Some of those crimes carried jail terms but were later reduced to fines. Personally, I believe it's high-time he finally spends time behind bars. Perhaps it would teach him something about dishonesty...
10-30-11, 07:44 PM #367
10-30-11, 08:30 PM #368
"According to an article published by Italy's national newspaper, La Corriere della Sera, Page 37, April 12, 1992, Rossi was sentenced to four months in jail (suspended) and fined.
The same paper, Page 45, March 24, 1993, reports Rossi was sentenced to eight months confinement (conditionally suspended) and fined.
Again, Page 49, March 28, 1996, La Corriere della Sera, one-year sentence, later reduced to a fine.
Again, Page 51, May 23, 1997, La Corriere della Sera, sentence of two years eight months. The article specifically mentions tax fraud and quotes the public prosecutor as saying, "For all these operations, there is no trace of contracts or agreements." One of the transactions involved transfer of intangible assets (list of clients, and technology) to the value of 725 million lire.
These cases involve only his Petroldragon activities. But it doesn't stop there. See Page 11, March 29, 1995, and Page 49, April 6, 1995, La Corriere della Sera. He was also jailed as part of an "international conspiracy" in illegal gold trafficking."
10-30-11, 08:41 PM #369
Krivit is the very last person we should be seeking conclusions from.
His arguments against Rossi are almost famous at this point and there are articles on Krivit vs Rossi. Google those names to read a few.
His argument now is that nobody wants to be a customer is ridiculous. Too many uber rich people are lined up to buy one just to see if it really works.
Krivit campaigns against Rossi. Rossi was even nice enough to be interviewed on tape by Krivit and if you watch it you will see it seems way more on the level than Krivit makes it sound. Much of the ums and ers we hear are because Rossi is not communicating in his native tongue.
Krivit first attack against Rossi was on a much dumber side, as he questioned the visible steam the ecat was producing on video.
Anyone with a lick of common sense understands that steam is clear/invisible and only becomes visible as it cools into water vapor. We could then argue that an ecat should produce less visible steam than a kettle would as the temperatures are not close to the same.
That was his argument, that a kettle had more visible steam, and now he is arguing Rossi has no interested buyer.
Rossi apparently has two choices.
A) tell the world exactly how it is done and become famous but lose his shirt as Chinese ecat knock offs dominate the marketplace.
B) keep his secret and try to build as many as he can until his secret is revealed.
One of the main problems he seems to be facing is nobody understands exactly what is taking place. They are getting an obvious reaction with the excess heat but the how/why of it is still not fully understood. All patents for this device are probably full of a lot of question marks.
If someone can come along and explain the how and why a lot better and have all the math tally up the could beat Rossi to a US patent and erase Rossi from the history books.
Krivit seems like his articles are meant mainly to provoke Rossi. The reason people think Rossi has something to hide is because he has got something to hide.
He is keeping his catalyst a secret.
In my opinion someone does not invest four plus years and over a million dollars trying to scam people. Just working in a lab he could probably be in a high income bracket as opposed to financing this.
I am sorry; but I just cannot wrap my head around a scam so dumb in nature, and where public testing is prevalent.
Each test has seemed deficient to convince skeptics, but each test is longer and they try to address some concerns.
I do believe we are getting closer to the yay or nay of it, but Krivit should not be the final word.
I am looking at the tests and videos and responses...
How come there are two major universities standing behind this now?
Bologna and Uppsala. I suppose we could also call professor Levi and others idiots for believing they have witnessed the "reactions".
Sitting on the fence may be painful, but this story is not over.
10-30-11, 08:59 PM #370
Also... Concerning Andrea Rossis criminal past
Yes! He did own a major chemical company. How he came to own such a large chemical company some might say shows he was a hard working environmental scientist.
He was not a minor player and his company had dealings with former president Jimmy Carter, and sponsored formula 3 race cars.
His company came up with a way to get the oil from industrial waste, and waste was collected on a huge scale. When oil prices fell the waste idea seemed less interesting.
Soon the acres of chemical storage tanks were leaking and petroldragon could not afford the disposal or 50 million dollar clean up. The government held the companys owner (Andrea Rossi) criminally responsible.
It shows me that he was smart enough to build a vaste empire based on environmental chemistry, it does not make me want to tar and feather the dude.
Also... Yes he was also convicted of gold smuggling, a crime done by many. The fact that he got caught convinces me further he is no criminal mastermind.
Has this not all been discussed, let's just wait a few more months and watch the show.
10-30-11, 09:04 PM #371
And by the way, did you even BOTHER to read Rossi's criminal history that I posted just before you posted? Yep, he is one fine, honest, upstanding, misunderstood and abused individual - NOT!!!!!
10-30-11, 09:12 PM #372
Yes read only, I respondedmto your "criminal" views of Rossi long ago and also just before you posted.
I think his "criminal" past is bogus, and if anything proves he is a very talented environmental scientist.
Last edited by kwhilborn; 10-30-11 at 09:33 PM.
10-30-11, 09:30 PM #373
10-30-11, 09:59 PM #374
To see exactly the crime he was convicted of Pertaining to petroldragon watch "the game changer: e-cat device by Andrea Rossi" on YouTube.
His company basically abandoned 57 000 tons of toxic waste in huge oil containers around the country. The oil he produced fro
The waste was considered substandard and was itself toxic waste.
You will see this starting at 10:25 in the above named video.
57000 tons of toxic waste. That's a lot of toxic waste.
I understand your skepticism and I am leaning towards belief based on others opinions and human nature.
You cannot just state that this is over for everyone but me when there are many thousands who seem to agree with positive outcomes.
There are University professors who agree with this technology being legitimate.
Professor Levi has seen this work and was also involved
With Piantelli and he is convinced there was a reaction.
There are two upstanding Universities standing behind this at the moment. Upsalla and Bologna.
The tests are running longer each time as skeptics always say it is too short.
There is room for belief still .
I cannot imagine anyone committing so many years and over a million dollars in expenses and lost wages to commit blatant fraud.
His ownership of several previous companies such as petroldragon demonstrate he is a pioneer in environmental science.
There is room for belief.
When this thread was started I did comment that we could avoid name calling, and I did comment on his "criminal" past. I think it was more
Political than anything else, and there are YouTube videos you van find displaying the graveyard of full industrial waste containers, and how it cost the Italian government 50'million to clean it up. Rossi was trying to help the environment not hurt it.
Answers here are slow in coming, but seem to be coming faster.
Last edited by kwhilborn; 10-30-11 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Expanding
10-30-11, 10:34 PM #375
What about all the OTHER criminal cases AND convictions I listed? Are you purposefully ignoring them just to help the crook seem less crooked?
I'm not into calling names - I just think you have a terrible time assessing people and their motives. For what it's worth, people in real life give me VERY high ratings on being able to accurately judge people and it's been my business to do so for many, many years.
If you still wish to defend this crook, please show me proof-positive that those two universities DO INDEED still stand behind him and his device!!
10-30-11, 10:48 PM #376
I edited my last post to include video coverage of the crime petroldragon committed. It starts at 10:25 into a YouTube video entitled "the game changer: e-cAt device by Andrea Rossi".
So I am basing my view of his crimes based on information from others and not him.
The video I suggest explains the situation accurately and seemingly without bias.
Stating that the two universities were behind them comes from another article I recently read, however we do know professor Levi and professor Focardi from Bologna are hard core in advocating that a nuclear reaction has taken place.
I will look more at upsallas involvement, but need to find
More than the one article about it. Perhaps later in the week.
Hope the video shows how 57 000 tons of to ic waste can get a guy in trouble.
Last edited by kwhilborn; 10-30-11 at 10:54 PM.
10-30-11, 11:07 PM #377
Okay University of Uppsala involvement
Watch YouTube video
"Rossi ecat: prof. Roland petterson -- Uppsala University"
It would appear that both universities have been provided ecats for testing. I am not sure, but this is how it appears.
Retired University of Uppsala Professor Roland Petterson attended the October 7 test of the ecat representing Uppsala University. He told Nytechnic magazine he believes the machine works but thatore measurement is warranted. Andrea Rossi answered yes when asked if Uppsala had their own ecat to test.
Last edited by kwhilborn; 10-30-11 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Adding
10-30-11, 11:37 PM #378
I just read a very good article entitled,
"rebuttal of krivit's accusation that Andrea Rossi is a fraudster" a must read if you are interested in this debate. I would even go so far as
To think (possibly wrong) that the author claims
To have insider info from NASA. He says he has insider information from a reputable organization beginning with N. How cryptic?
But the author does make many valid points, and I wish I'd thought of a few here.
Anyways I still am unable to provide links from my phone, but the article should be easy to find.
10-30-11, 11:40 PM #379
Cold Fusion does have a very impressively consistent track record, ever since P&F first announced it. It has never yielded a single verifiable positive result. Now, that's consistency! I believe that P&F were sincere when they first started out, believing that they had made a significant discovery. But as time went on, and the hype increased while the reults remained ever elusive, there came a time when they had to have realized that their results were spurious. From that point on to the present, all of the supporters of cold fusion have either been too dim-witted to realize they've been had, or are guilty of criminal conspiracy to defraud granting agencies and investors.
10-31-11, 12:30 AM #380
Tell you what I'll do, though. I'm going away for about a week without access. Maybe by the end of that time you can find something that's actually credible about your claim that those two universities are still standing behind Rossi. AND please, no more of this nonsense like the stuff coming from some RETIRED professor - that's also worthless!
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