Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (cold fusion)

[Billy T]

High resolution thermal cameras do not measure heat. They measure TEMPERATURE. The two are not the same. ...

Actually they don´t even do that well as some emissivity must be assumed. A 950C carbon rod will radiate more than a 1000C steel rod will.

[kwhilborn]

@ Billvon,
If they focused the Thermal Camera on only a segment of the Ecat you would be correct. However we know duration with full coverage (except the framing did block some portions as I recall).

@ Billy T,
Although the heat resistant black paint was assigned an emissivity of 1, the manufacturer was not contacted for a more exact ballpark.

@ Russ,
There is no shortage of people already purchasing and using these devices as Industrial Heaters. The 1MW plants are worth $2 000 000 each.

Why bother with these tests when he can just start selling products?*

Exactly why he doesn't bother with Testing. Some said it was because he had nothing. They were wrong.

Pressure from interested public has a lot to do with why we were allowed to Verify this. If there was a Home Unit Certification (unlikely at temperatures approaching 1000+ Celsius), there is over 10 000 people on a waiting list. Home Depot will not be needed for some time.

[Capracus]

There is no shortage of people already purchasing and using these devices as Industrial Heaters. The 1MW plants are worth $2 000 000 each.

Name one.

[Russ_Watters]

Name one.

And cite a source.

[Russ_Watters]

If there was a Home Unit Certification (unlikely at temperatures approaching 1000+ Celsius)...

According to the test report, the peak was more like 550C, which is nothing for the heating element temperature of home space heaters, which do run closer to 1000C. This should be obvious since if it were as hot as a heating element, you'd be able to see it glow.

there is over 10 000 people on a waiting list.

Do you have a source for that claim too?

[kwhilborn]

@ Russ,
You start talking about business and then I did and now you want all the confidential information.
http://ecat.com/ecat-products/

Okay. According to that page they are $1 500 000 USD not the $2 mill I said.



Andrea Rossi will not allow customers to pull apart the units and also has not disclosed any customer names.

So it is only Heresay that he has sold any, but it was also Heresay 3 days ago that he even had a stable Ecat.

It is unfair to start talking about the business end of things though and then expect confidential information. It was you (Russ) who started saying "why doesn't he just sell them?", and when we answer you with "well he does" you want proof.

I know McDonalds sold a lot of burgers today , but I cannot name any customers. McDonalds Customers don't Sign Non disclosure Agreements either.

I have $10 000 to invest with Andrea Rossi. Show me how I can get this money into his pocket and I might nibble at your scam scenarios, but it is not likely as he has not taken his corporation public.

edit:
@ Russ (for last post),
The first test the Unit was destroyed because they allowed the temperatures to run too hot. The Nickel melts around 1500 degrees making the unit useless. I think this can be understood from the recent paper. They also use a paint that is capable of standing 1200 Degrees Celsius for a reason.

They even showed a picture of it glowing hot. Would you want that in your home?


The home Units I was wrong. They have a waiting list of over 50 000 now and you can also join the waiting list at ecat.com This list has grown steadily and has been monitored by fans of the ecat. It does not matter if you think it is true or false as they have no certification anyways. Information like this is NOT official but comes from places like
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1921

[Russ_Watters]

@ Russ,
You start talking about business and then I did and now you want all the confidential information.

Confidential information? Who are you that you in relation to Rossi's company that you have access to confidential information? Is Rossi angry that you are disclosing it?

http://ecat.com/ecat-products/

Ok, well that's not a space heater, it is a power generator, but good to know they are delivering production units. So that begs the question: why are they doing these little teaser tests when they could just as easily - and more convincingly - demonstrate the working model? After all, if you want to sell something to someone, isn't the best way to show them what they are actually buying? It just doesn't make sense what he's doing.

Andrea Rossi will not allow customers to pull apart the units...

How can he stop them?

So it is only Heresay that he has sold any....

Who did you hear it from?

It is unfair to start talking about the business end of things though and then expect confidential information. It was you (Russ) who started saying "why doesn't he just sell them?"

I said that, but I'm not the one who said this demonstration was done for the purpose of marketing them. My question is a natural response to that. And yours brings up another question:

Why bother with confidentiality?

....and when we answer you with "well he does" you want proof.

Are you saying proof is unreasonable? When we're talking about The Greatest Invention in the History of the World, I think wanting solid proof is pretty reasonable.

But fear not - NDA or not, people are going to be ripping apart their E-Cats to see how they work.

I know McDonalds sold a lot of burgers today , but I cannot name any customers. McDonalds Customers don't Sign Non disclosure Agreements either.

I didn't ask for names of customers, I'm asking for proof of sales. McDonalds releases quarterly and annual reports.

I have $10 000 to invest with Andrea Rossi. Show me how I can get this money into his pocket and I might nibble at your scam scenarios, but it is not likely as he has not taken his corporation public.

Since you have access to insider information already, I'd think you already would know how.

[Russ_Watters]

They even showed a picture of it glowing hot. Would you want that in your home?

Sure, why not? I have a dozen things in my house that run that hot, including exactly what that would be used for: (2) space heaters. And my heater, stove, oven/range and grill all burn propane, at nearly 2,000 C.



Thanks, didn't see that before. So it is close to the temperature of a normal space heater. No reason not to make one from it.

[kwhilborn]

@ Russ,
All We can show scientifically is Peer Reviewed papers verifying many successful LENR replications since Pons/Fleischmann and testing done by reputable people in the field. If you wish to know about Business, Sales, Pricing, Motivations, etc then the best I can write is based on unconfirmed reports.

Andrea Rossi claims the home units are harder to certify. He even has pre-loaded the hydrogen into the metals so hydrogen tanks would not be a necessity. He also has claimed Home Units have not yet met certification. This would also be convenient if he was trying to keep the catalyst a secret as I most certainly would dissect the first unit to come my way.

I cannot verify any business transactions he has done or proposed, although there is a lot of speculation.

This does not detract from the news that he does indeed have a device that seems worthy of sales.

[billvon]

@ Billvon, If they focused the Thermal Camera on only a segment of the Ecat you would be correct. However we know duration with full coverage (except the framing did block some portions as I recall).

Ah, so you don't understand the difference between heat and temperature. Would explain a lot of your confusion over this test.

[KitemanSA]

Marketing, not science? So...basically you're saying that the goal here was to trick businessmen into thinking it was scientific, when we all agree it wasn't?

Trick? Hmmm. Perhaps "invite"?

[KitemanSA]

Does anyone know if a UV laser would show up on a thermal imager? Could he be pumping light energy into it?

[exchemist]

Does anyone know if a UV laser would show up on a thermal imager? Could he be pumping light energy into it?

Could be I suppose, but surely a disguised UV laser of that continuous power rating (>500W) would be both very large and appallingly dangerous. If someone walked through the beam, not knowing it was there, they'd be fried, wouldn't they?

If I were a betting man, my money at present would be on the Power Factor distorting the power input readings. We know the input has some fancy waveform (not disclosed because "trade secret", like so much of this device.). And also that Power Factors far from unity can be beyond the ability of regular commercial electricity meters. See this reference:-

http://www.science20.com/comments/14...ld_Fusion_Real

[Captain Kremmen]

@Kwhill
Re Cornell University. I don't know why you are banging on about that all the time.
It is a paper. It is credible because Levi is the author. I assume they are selling it.

I agree with you about those links. They don't contribute much to the debate.
The links ridiculing the experiment are assuming that it is part of Rossi's usual flim-flam.
Understandable, but wrong.

It is quite promising, but very early days.
Much too early to be jumping around like a demented elf.