08-15-12, 10:41 AM #961
Out of the hundreds of variations of experiments on LENR (formerly known as Cold Fusion}, not a single one will reliably produce excess energy.
Because that it all it would take, just one of them to work consistently.
The equipment involved is inexpensive, you could set one up yourself for $2,000.Probably less.
Why are none of these scientists creating multiple apparatuses using the same materials, and subjecting the process to double blind experimentation?
The problem is that "I tried it and didn't get anything repeatable" isn't something that an LENR believer is going to be willing to post on any board. Consider kwhilborn. Imagine him constructing an experiment and getting no (or ambiguous) energy output. He would likely not post those results, since he is emotionally very invested in LENR, and has said several times how good it will make him feel to make others "eat crow." Giving up on that would be very hard for him (or anyone who is similarly invested.)
08-15-12, 01:16 PM #962
What annoys me is the way he accuses scientists of ignoring evidence.
If there was good statistical evidence for these reactions occurring,
every University science facility in the world would be working on it.
The reason why they are not doing so, is that in repeated tests the evidence is not there.
08-15-12, 04:51 PM #963
@ Captain Kremmen,
New science does not become accepted overnight, however many reading this thread have been exposed to more information on this new science. The average person is more concerned with what Kim Kardashian is wearing, and I doubt less than 0.1% has any idea how close we are with LENR. It will be a few years before many University physics texts reflect LENR.
There is many published methods to replicate excess heat in LENR, so I doubt anybody trying is failing. If they are it is not for lack of instruction.
Captain Kremmen - The reason why they are not doing so, is that in repeated tests the evidence is not there.
NASA - The current situation is that we now have over two decades of hundreds of experiments worldwide indicating heat and transmutations with minimal radiation and low energy input. By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR "Real?" Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental evidence.
@ Captain Kremmen,
Where are you getting this misleading information thatin repeated tests the evidence is not there.
@ Billy T,
Some more information from Francesco Celani,
it does state fusion occurred and the fused wire is being analyzed.
08-15-12, 06:51 PM #964
It has been known for more than 100years that hydrogen will embrittle metals
08-15-12, 11:01 PM #965
@ Billy T,
That was from Francesco Celani and i'm not sure he calls his an ecat (That's Rossi), so I am wondering what prior claims he has made. I was under the impression the Piantelli and Celani were working in private mostly. They have repetitive anomalous heat, but it seems every front has a different reason for it. NASA has Widom-Larsen, Brian Ahern states it is not nuclear but cause by asymmetric magnetism. It is like ancient philosophers first attempts at explaining the sun.
The International Cold Fusion Conference is a lively event this year and is occurring in Korea this week.
Andrea Rossi is not demonstrating his device in September. In September his assembled group of licensees will gather in Zurich where Andrea Rossi will release third party verification papers from tests that have been conducted during the summer. So we will have at minimum third party verification. In October; the University of Bologna will test the Andrea Rossi ecat on their own and are free to publish their own papers/verification.
08-16-12, 05:41 AM #966
Re Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist at Nasa Langley Research.
Thanks for the link.
I accept your argument that a scientist in a high position at a prestigious research centre thinks that LENR is "true"
Yes, he does "believe" in LENR, and for much the same reasons as you do yourself.
He says that because there have been hundreds of experiments indicating excess heat that there must be something to it.
He cites it as one of the possible ways of reducing CO2 emissions.
LENRS , Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. Not hot fusion but weak interaction nuclear reactions. Large body of experiments world-wide and several theories indicate this is both real and understood.
He also gives credence to the tapping of Zero point energy, an idea most mainstream scientists view as akin to perpetual motion machines,
Long Term There are now 7 very interesting possibilities to tap Zero Point Energy, the Zero Quantum State.......
He is obviously a very intelligent man, and an expert in his main field which is aeronautics.
I don't know whether his viewpoint on this is also Nasa's.
I look forward to Rossi's presentation of his latest experiments which you say will have independent verification.
08-16-12, 10:35 AM #967
08-21-12, 12:13 AM #968
Brillouin published this paper on their LENR device. With September 10 approaching a few people may try to get there work in view before Andrea Rossi. 20 days to go...
I doubt it will be believed but Andrea Rossi will show verified third part testing on his stable 1000 degree LENR energy catalyser (ecat). He will also allow the University of Bologna to replicate his experiments and report their own findings.
Here is the Athanor LENR device. An open source HIGH SCHOOL version. YES HIGH SCHOOL..
Last edited by kwhilborn; 08-21-12 at 12:45 PM.
08-21-12, 01:26 PM #969
Days to Go
Twenty days to go, and all
The snakes were getting nervous
Rossi and his sidekick Cures
were kitting out their furnace.
08-21-12, 02:38 PM #970
08-22-12, 01:51 AM #971
Days to Go
Nineteen days to Go. Said Rossi
"Send out for more wires.
The last ones were too straggly
and might have caused some fires."
08-22-12, 06:51 AM #972
To Capt K: Why not edit your daily count down posts to add new number to right of old, instead of make new posts that pushes the earlier ones off screen?
08-22-12, 08:46 AM #973
That high school experiment is quite interesting. But there's even a 14 year old who has built a fusion reactor himself. Just can't get one to sustain the reaction and produce excess energy.
The Open Source LENR Project is watching all this research and patent applying, but they at least can admit that no one is quite to that goal yet. As we learn more about what exactly is going on in the physics, then we can narrow down if it's a viable energy producer and how to maximize it, or if now, how else it can be valuable. Science is always worthwhile, even if the initial goal is a failure.
Jumping to a conclusion and making claims before data is in...that's something else entirely.
08-23-12, 10:36 AM #974
is a Francesco Celani patent application in regards to preparing the nickel in his LENR.
I know Billy T, has feelings that the preparation of the Nickel is adding the missing energy at least in the Andrea Rossi version of this. This LENR device uses Nickel sheets so is somewhat different. It is odd to see so many approaches. We have seen ground Nickel, Nickel wire, and Nickel sheets.
08-23-12, 11:00 AM #975
Not totally unsuccessfully.
Billvon thinks it's cool.
Tell you what.
I'll quit the countdown for now and start it again a few days out from the deadline.
My opinion is that this experiment will prove nothing.
Same as the last time.
If it is successful, I will happily eat crow, hats, or any other punishment devised by Kwhilborn.
I admire his tenacity.
I am a sceptic, but I would be very happy if it should unexpectedly work.
I will swill down my crow with champagne.
08-23-12, 11:40 AM #976
Which is unfortunate, because I think at some point someone _will_ discover that something is going on in those reactors. It's not going to be the cheap energy that everyone is talking about, but we will find something new about chemistry or nuclear physics. And that will be worthwhile, even if it doesn't solve the energy crisis.
08-23-12, 02:37 PM #977
08-23-12, 06:57 PM #978
On September 10th Andrea Rossi is releasing information and third party verification of his device. He is NOT doing a public experiment.
I also do not expect the media to show up unless Kim kardashian is there, nor do I expect any to accept third party verifications as proof. People won't take the word of NASA so what chance does Andrea Rossi have.
Andrea Rossi -
I do not think our convention of Zurich will raise any interest: as I always said, what counts are not chatters, what counts are working plants.
Although it is not discussed much here he is also claiming no electrical power is needed during start up, and the reaction be started now with gas only.
He is also claiming the University of Bologna is free to test the device in October and publish the results.
So yes. September will not be the end, but I believe his product is as he claims, so it won't be many months away.
08-24-12, 03:53 PM #979
You keep on saying NASA
Do you mean Dennis Bushnell, who works for NASA?
NASA have spent billions of dollars on R and D.
Since they employ Bushnell specifically in R and D,
and given that he is a senior position in one of their most prestigious research establishments,
I must conclude that he is one of the best people in the world at the job.
He gives his title as Chief Scientist.
Does that mean that he runs the place, or that he is one of a number of chief scientists at Langley.
Even if it is the latter, he must be brilliant.
I accept that he believes that LENR is "Real".
Those terms seem unscientific to me.
It is surprising that someone of his standing would use such words,
but that is definitely what he has said.
But how much have NASA spent on LENR research?
Very little I think.
If it works as a technology it is worth many Billions of Dollars per year.
I remember someone saying that NASA patented something to do with LENR.
What was that?
Last edited by Captain Kremmen; 08-25-12 at 07:26 AM.
08-24-12, 06:14 PM #980
The House passed a $17.6 billion NASA 2013 budget Thursday. Can you find even a dime in it for LENR?
I admit that NASA cannot control every thing some of its employees do, including unauthorized spending of NASA funds, but if nothing is in the budget then, LEHR is NOT a NASA project.
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