Can a microwave oven blast the entire quantum mechanic?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by sorincosofret, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. sorincosofret Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    24
    Can a microwave oven blast the entire quantum mechanic?

    Did I say microwave oven?
    Maybe it is an error and I meant a microwave refrigerator....
    The text analyses one of the simplest paradoxes of the modern physics:
    A microwave radiation with a temperature of radiation of few Kelvins is able to boil food or to melt dielectrics and metals, or to rise their temperature up to 2000 K.
    How is possible?
    If blackbody theory is correct a frequency of microwave at 2,4 GHz has to produce a temperature of few Kelvin and of course this has to be the most simple and efficient refrigerator!
    But the situation is completely opposite and this is only the beginning of a succession of absurdities...
    According to same quantum theory, a material body kept in contact with microwave radiation, once it arrive at thermal equilibrium with this radiation, will become a secondary source of microwave radiation. Has someone, got out the hot turkey from the microwave and measured how much remnant microwave radiation and for how long is emitted by poor animal?
    Has someone ever questioned how is possible for a material body to absorb microwaves, more precisely photons with energy of few mili eV, and to emit back photons in visible, with energies of few eV?
    Practically it is necessary for a molecule to remain in an excited state for minutes or decades of minutes in order to cumulate up to 1000 successive microwave photons hits!
    Why, in this case, a source of infrared does not ever permit to obtain a reemission spectrum in visible or X ray?
    The entire problem is analysed in the link:
    elkadot.com/ro/termodinamica/cuantic_microunde_dot_htm

    Finally is worth to be reminded that microwaves do not respect any of the laws established for the thermal radiation.
    It is not possible to deduce the temperature of microwave radiation based on Wien displacement law. The Stefan Boltzmann law is not respected because the material body does not become a source of secondary microwave radiation.
    The Kirchoff law related to the thermal equilibrium is not respected, because a body subjected to microwave irradiation shifts the reemission spectra toward infrared and visible domain of energies.
    Therefore, in proposed theory quantum idea is ruled out and it is categorised as a huge error which regrettably is still maintained in physics.
    As was already presented, the distribution of ionization energies for electrons in atoms has nothing to do with a probabilistic interpretation and consequently rule out the quantum theory too. There are two links, one in 2007 and another revision in 2010:

    The present text is not a novelty too. An old text related to microwave working principle was already posted under the name: induction lamps and quantum hypothesis.


    But who cares!?
    Our leaders are busy with money allocation. Science is made from the tip of the pen ….
    More absurd an idea appears to be, more chances to be published in a recognised journal.

    Best regards up to a new research related to blackbody radiation….

    Sorin Cosofret
     
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  3. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    I hardly know where to begin. Basically all the science part is wrong, and I can't imagine how you manage a political connection.

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    However, I'll stick to the science part.:bugeye:

    First of all, black-body theory does not claim that the max temperature is limited by the wavelength of the incoming radiation. It is limited by the intensity of the radiation.

    Secondly, Microwave ovens to not heat by black-body absorption. You can assure yourself of that by placing a piece of black paper in your Microwave. It won't heat up appreciably.

    They heat by induction. When microwaves (radio waves in the GHz range) hit a conductive object, they are converted into electrical current in that object. The object is heated by resistive loss. Non-conductive objects are not heated at all, this is the reason you can boil soup in a plastic cup.

    Again this heating depends on energy density, not on wavelength.

    The secondary emission you mention certainly exists, but not as a result of heating. The currents in the heated object cause microwaves to be transmitted from it. This is the reason metal objects are not heated appreciably in a normal microwave oven: Most of the energy is retransmitted.

    Of course, somebody has questioned the science in this. Actually, microwave ovens were 'invented' theoretically, before they were made in practice.

    Hans
     
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  5. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,559
    They were 'invented' in theory with patents filed, but not as microwaves. The use of microwaves for heating was an accidental discovery in 1945.

    "Percy Spencer, an American self-taught engineer from Howland, Maine, was working at the time (1945) building magnetrons for radar sets, with the American company Raytheon. He was working on an active radar set when he noticed that a Mr. Goodbar he had in his pocket started to melt. The radar had melted his chocolate bar with microwaves. The first food to be deliberately cooked with Spencer's microwave was popcorn, and the second was an egg, which exploded in the face of one of the experimenters. To verify his finding, Spencer created a high density electromagnetic field by feeding microwave power from a magnetron into a metal box from which it had no way to escape. When food was placed in the box with the microwave energy, the temperature of the food rose rapidly."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven
     
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  7. sorincosofret Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    24
    A beginner in physics will laugh with an open mouth on what you are writing.

    So, if I come with an infrared beam and I direct this beam on a material body, I will get back a reemission spectrum in Visible and Xray…
    Go on and read some materials about thermodynamics..

    The mechanism of microwave heating is completely biased in actual physics.
    You can accept that a metal or a conductive material can have some inductive currents, and it is well known that microwaves are usually reflected by metals. The problem is microwave heat dielectrics, and in fact the melting of metals is indirectly, because the microwaves heat the ceramic container and the metal inside container melt.
    Probably in the last time silicon carbide is a conductor …
    www_dot_egmrs.org/EJS/PDF/vo252/263_dot_pdf
    Search on the internet and you will find a lot of ceramic material heated by non induction phenomena ….

    If the heating is dependent on wave density for microwave, the effect is not observed in the case of infrared… so again …
     
  8. wlminex Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,587
    . . . .try placing a piece of aluminum foil in your microwave . . . it quickly melts! This discourse reminds me of an idea I had some years ago . . . . . 'cracking' silica- encapsulated, micron-sized gold ore with microwaves to enhance chemical gold leaching recovery . . . no one believed it then . . . and probably not now . . . . one of you younger guys should patent this idea . . . become rich and famous overnight!!

    wlminex (Geologist)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2011
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,397
    It would be strange indeed if it could, seeing as the operational principle relies on quantum mechanics.

    Radiation temperature has nothing to do with how a microwave works. It works by breaking bonds between water molecules, which releases energy in the form of heat. Microwave radiation is the method used to deliver the energy required to break the bonds.

    The spectrum of radiation in a microwave oven is not a black body spectrum.

    No. It need only radiate an equal amount of heat to the amount it receives. It can do that at any wavelength.

    No more than usual.

    Yes. And the theory is well understood.

    Wrong again. 1000 cumulative hits are not required.

    Like I said, microwave ovens don't emit a blackbody spectrum. What ever gave you the idea that they did?

    Right. Because it's not black body radiation.

    Most material bodies aren't black body radiators either.

    You'd do better to learn some physics than to make silly claims like this.

    Presented by whom? You? Where can I find the peer-reviewed publication?
     
  10. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    Well, actually, that story may not be entirely true. Anyway, before that, radio waves were contemplated as death-beams, and the energy needed to kill enemy soldiers or fry enemy planes was calculated. The energy needed was, and still is, impractical (instead, they invented RADAR). So the physics behind the microwave oven was figured out much earlier.

    Hans
     
  11. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    A beginner may, but not someone educated.

    If there is enough energy in your beam, yes.

    Biased?

    That is the secondary emission you are looking for: Since metals have low resistance, little energy is lost, and it is (nearly) all re-emitted. And here you have the same wavelength.

    No, they heat only conductors. Isolators are not heated, because no current is inducted, and very good conductors are not heated, because there is no resistive loss. Lossy conductors like bacon, water, certain ceramics, and certain plastics will heat up.

    BTW, high frequency metal furnaces do not operate on the same frequencies as your kitchen microwave oven.


    Yes, it is. The heating effect is due to a combination of energy density and absorption. The wavelength may influence absorption, because different materials absorb different wavelengths, but the 'temperature' of the wavelength is not a parameter.

    Hans
     

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