THEOLOGY -vs- REALITY Something to think about..... Moses and the people were in the desert, but what was he going to do with them? They had to be fed, and feeding 2 or 3 million people requires a lot of food. According to the Quartermaster General in the United States Army, when asked, it is reported that Moses would have to have had 1500 tons of food each day. Do you know that to bring that much food each day, two freight trains, each at least a mile long, would be required! Besides you must remember, they were out in the desert, so they would have to have firewood to use in cooking the food. This would take 4000 tons of wood and a few more freight trains, each a mile long, just for one day. And just think, they were forty years in transit. And Oh yes! They would have to have water. If they only had enough to drink and wash a few dishes, it would take 11,000,000 gallons each day and a freight train with tank cars, 1800 miles long, just to bring water! And then another thing! They had to get across the Red Sea at night. Now, if they went on a narrow path, double file, the line would be 800 miles long and would require 35 days and nights to get through. So there had to be a space in the Red Sea, 3 miles wide so that they could walk 5000 abreast to get over in one night. But then, there is another problem...............each time they camped at the end of the day, a campground two-thirds the size of the state of Rhode Island was required, or a total of 750 square miles long........ think of it! This much space for camping. Belief is the strongest power in the universe! Believe that something fantastic will happen to you and it will. After all, if it worked for Moses.... it will work for you...no? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hmm well I doubt some of these numbers. Its like your pulling them out of thin air. Like I don't remember the bible saying there were two to three million of them. Ok even if were to take these numbers as true whats this gibberish about needing freight trains to carry stuff? You go how ever many long suffering hard working very strong people to carry supplies. Not to mention animals like camels and such and carts as well. They might have been nomatic during this time but it doesnt say they never stopped for a moment. Also you forget god caused mana to fall to the ground so that the people might eat. Firewood? How much firewood use are you assigning for each person? Who said all there food needed to be cooked? Perhaps mana was edible as it is. Then theres these water numbers. I seriously doubt they had many dishes and washed any they did have especially noy the way we do now adays.. How much water do you figure a person needs each day to survive? 8 cups? Who ever even drinks that much even now adays with water at our fingertips. Im sure these people were very capable of living on much less water then the average person not to mention there is water in deserts. Rivers running through and water holes. Even the occasional floods.Elephants do it. They know where water is and have been known to have traveled hundreds of miles sometimes to those sources. Wandering just means nomatic, Im sure they settled down near water sources and other such then moved on ever so often for what ever reason. Perhaps chasing after water sources after they dried up. Like every other number how much camp room are you assigning to each person to come up with these numbers? What reasoning was used to come up with the per person numbers?
2 or 3 million? Where did you get the number of people from? To me that sounds absurdly high. During the time period i dont think even large cities had populations that size. Personally i dont think the event really happened but if it did a few thousand is a much more realistic number than three million.
Big Numbers In numbers there was a census of all males 20 years and up. They numbered around 700,000. If you imagine that there were at least that many women, and a lot of children, the number would easily hit a million and a half, maybe even two million. Factor in the fact that over the course of 40 years that a significant number of births (and deaths) would occur. At their peak, the Israelites may have numbered anywhere from 2 to 5 million people. Perhaps I will research this further. -Mike
But if you assume that those numbers are right than Banshee's statiscs about supplies must be right to. Except one thing. They didn't have freight trains. All suplies would have been carried by some sort of animal, which can't carry nearly as much as a train which makes their supply lines many times longer than Banshee's. Which is absolutly ridiculus. Im pretty sure that at that time period the logistcs of moving millions of people accross a desert was just plain impossible.
We are talking about the legends of a nomadic people. They were existing in a large area of land, which may have been more fertile than it is now (most deserts are man-made). The bible gives us the impression that they were all travelleing around in one big column, but that was probably not the case. The bible is concerned with the leading groups, but the nation of people may have been spread out over a large area in smaller bands. There is no reason to question the logistics of small bands of desert nomads, they exist and can be studied even today (and their technology hasnt changed much). The same about the passage of the Red Sea. It needs not be ALL the Israelites that passed a branch of the Red Sea during an incident of exceptionally low water, it could just be some important group. Basically, it all boils down to this: If you regard the bible as a collection of legends with an overall religious message, it makes sense and is a valuable religious and historic document, but if you try to take it literally, it wont work out. There are lots of people who actually insist on taking the bible, all of the bible, to be the literal Truth, and I'm not one to refrain from picking on them whenever the opportunity arises, heheh. However both I and others should keep in mind that this has no bearing on the great mayority of Christianity, who dont indulge in fundamentalist folly. Hans
Most desert is mountain made. Mountains hold back rain clouds causing all the rain to fall on one side leaving the other dry. Theres a couple other ways a desert can form but those are all natural. Mostly its mountains that form deserts. When has man mad mountains? Also I doubt all supplies were brought by animal. They weren't described as very rich so i doubt they had that enough animals to carry everything. Im sure they dragged carts filled with supplies along as well(by "arm".). A majority of christians believe the bible is "the truth" (they say it as though truth doesnt exist outside the bible) This vague all encompassing concept leads most to the logical assumption that everything in the bible is the truth. If some of it was just legend then it wouldn't be true. Perhaps half truths.(if legend that is) Anyways then if none of it is to be taken literally there are sections of bible that have no use or purpose.:bugeye: That might as well be filled with greek mythology. Sections where there is no inherent moral message just statetments of fact concerning events that were supposed to have happened. You might then claim "well im just not wise enough to see it". Try reading judges there is a gory story in there of a a girl is raped to death by a town and then cut up into twelve pieces and sent to the 12 tribes of isreal. And thats just how it begins. Gory, pointless, clearly messageless text. Well pointless unless you were taking it as historical accounting of past events. As far is it just being focused on the main group then how did all the other groups escape the clutches of there slavers the egyptians?
I dont agree. Its a minority of Christians that take the Bible as literal truth. As an example the Vatican has accepted the evolution theory. Probably werent all slaves. The notion that Egypt used myriads of slaves to build pyramids etc. doesnt hold up to recent research. If they did, the exodus of so many slaves would have been an economic disaster and would have been reflected in egyptian history. It isnt. Hans
Whats this about pyramids? From what I understand most of the workers on the pyramids were not slavers. Or even jews. But farmers that needed income for off days of crops. Also it was a matter of national pride to be part of the building. A social event. I don't believe though (i don't have anything solid to back up this presumption.) that any Israelites were involved at all in any pyramid building. So that doesn't really apply. The bible also gives the impression that there really weren't any free Israelites except for collaborators like that one mention in the bible. Whos to say they didn't suffer economically? There were still more Egyptians then Hebrews so even if they were all slaves and all left that wouldn't necessarily means the country is totally destroyed. Also I'm sure they had other slaves then Jews.
Moses supposes his toses are roses, but Moses supposes erroneously. I think supposing that your toses are roses, or referring to them as "toses" in the first place basically discredits any "close encounter with god" story right off. Moses was a nutbag.
No I haven't seen signing in the rain(never even heard of the movie). Why not just tell me what you mean.
