Argument for the "70 weeks messiah prophecy"?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by garbonzo, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    Hi, I've been debating with a Christian and he brought up this argument for Bible evidence:
    I've never seen this before, does any of you seen this and have a argument against it? Thanks.


    From 455*B.C.E. to 1*B.C.E. is 454 years. From 1*B.C.E. to 1*C.E. is one year (there was no zero year). And from 1*C.E. to 29*C.E. is 28 years. Adding these three figures gives us the total of 483 years. Jesus was “cut off” in death in 33*C.E., during the 70th week of years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    The argument against it is simple, the prophecies were written to ensure that they predicted Jesus. Although Jesus did not help rebuild Jerusalem or restore independence to Israel.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    Is there no evidence that Daniel was written before 29 C.E.? I had always assumed there was.

    EDIT: Found this: http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/series/DAN/D001/D0011.html

    The Battle Ground. Daniel has been a battle ground between those who do not believe in God and those who do. Those who do not believe in God cannot accept miracles and biblical prophecies, including Daniel. So they have attacked the date and authorship of Daniel. They say that the book was written after the historical events occurred.
    What has occurred is that they have ignored the facts and have refused to answer questions that point to their error. Here are some of the facts.

    Dead Sea Scrolls. When was Daniel written? The Dead Sea Scrolls provide the first proof that the book of Daniel existed before 165 BC, since Daniel was found among the manuscripts at Qumran. This early date is the result of radiocarbon dating of the Dead Sea manuscripts of Daniel. They imply that earlier copies of the book with older dates already existed. This is important because Daniel predicted the fall of Babylon (605-539 B.C.), Media-Persia (539-331 B.C.), Greece (331-146 B.C.) and then Rome (331-146 B.C.). Daniel also predicts the time of Jesus’ death (33 A.D.). The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that at least one prophecy, the prophecy about Jesus’ existence on earth to be real.

    The Septuagint. There is another proof that the book of Daniel existed before Jesus was alive on this earth. This proof involves the Septuagint, which is also known as the LXX. The LXX is a Greek translation of the Old Testament. Jewish tradition says that seventy scribes translated the Hebrew Bible into Greek between 285 BC and 247 BC. Since the Septuagint contains the book of Daniel, we know that the book of Daniel existed even earlier in time.

    Book of Josephus. Josephus states that the book of Daniel was shown to Alexander the Great when he approached the city of Jerusalem (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, chapter VIII, section 5). History says that Alexander the Great approached Jerusalem around 331 BC. This means that the book of Daniel existed before this event. It predicted that Jerusalem would be conquered by Greece. Some critics will accept Josephus’ other accounts as being accurate, yet dispute this fact.

    The Jewish Tradition. Long standing Jewish tradition says that the book of Daniel existed before 450 BC. While this is not solid proof, it is consistent with the next fact.

    Ezekiel's Reference. Most critics widely accept the book of Ezekiel as being written between 586 BC and 538 BC. What is fascinating is that the author, Ezekiel, refers to Daniel in Ezekiel 14:14, 20. This implies that Daniel was alive during his time. Daniel claims to be the author (Daniel 12:4) of the book which bears his name and to have lived during the life of Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 1-2) and Darius (Dan. 9:1). This implies that Daniel was a contemporary of Ezekiel and lived to see the fall of Babylon (Dan. 5:30-31).

    Internal Evidence. For decades, the critics said the proof that Daniel was written near Christ’s time is found in the Greek names of musical instruments recorded in the book and in the fact that a portion of Daniel was written in Aramaic. After excavations in Babylonia and Assyria, it has become clear that the musical instruments (lyre, sackbut, and trigon) mentioned in Daniel 3 do not have Greek names (which would argue for a later date for Daniel), but Babylonian names from the seventh century (600 B.C.). These instruments originated in Old Persia and were then assimilated by the Greeks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Then the interpretation is certainly not accurate. How can one call weeks years? That doesn't make sense. Many legends of Jesus were carefully crafted to portray him as the fulfillment of prophecy.
     
  8. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    Several Bible translations note that these are, not weeks of seven days, but weeks of years. That is, each week represents seven years. This concept of weeks of years, or seven-year units, was familiar to Jews of ancient times. For instance, they observed a Sabbath year every seventh year. (Exodus 23:10,*11)
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    But no Jew considers him the messiah. He did nothing for Israel.
     
  10. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    I said I was debating with a Christian, not a Jew.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    He believes the messiah came to "die for our sins" and was not a king of the jews, but a king of god's kingdom. Something like that.
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    There were MANY different Bibles and lots of different Christian-like faiths. There is no good evidence Jesus existed and thus it is possible, when making him up, to simply write his story to look as if it fulfilled a prophesy of one sort or another.

    IOWs it's all made up and yes, it is that simple.

    So, if you want to continue your debate with your friend, why not starting at first principles: What contemporary evidence is there for Jesus?
    ANS: None.

    See how simple that was?
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    No, you have to indulge in the fantasy at least a little bit or they don't care for your argument.
     
  13. RedRabbit Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    139
    Ahem....that's wrong. (Obviously

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ).

    The 20th year of Artaxerxes’ reign would have been 445 BCE, not 455BCE.

    Your welcome.
     
  14. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,478
    it is very dangerous to take to bible literally, you risk losing the point of the story.
     
  15. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    OMFG you are so right! I can't believe I even had to ask, it's so simple, loool. I feel so embarrassed now. I guess that christian brainwashing never really leaves you, or at least not for awhile.
     
  16. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    LOL

    How easy is it for one who wishes not to believe to grab any kind of lame excuse not to believe.

    Jesus was and indeed is real.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  17. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    LOL

    How easy is it for one who wishes to believe to grab no excuse or evidence at all and still believe.

    Show me evidence that Jesus was an indeed real.
     
  18. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,634
    Spidey that is not true . There is a sect of Messianic Jews. You should hear them . They got extra voodoo when it comes to temple prayer and things like that . It makes the Danial Prophesies look like child play. I like Danial . He was great Guy . I can relate to Him . Fuck he new how to tame the beast so to speak . I like Him cause He calls Me the Prince . I am all down with that one . Yeah Buddy
     
  19. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,634
    Show Me Ridgley Greathouse the Pirate involved in the Chapman Affair was real.
    Show Me he really escape from prison and swam to the shores of the Bowery's of New York . Was He real ?
     
  20. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    I have no idea what you're talking about, so I can't answer you.

    Anyway, it falls on the person who is saying something is real to prove it is real, not the other person to prove it's not real.

    That's like some guy saying Santa Clause is real, and you say no he is not, and he asks you to prove he is not. The proof falls on the guy claiming Santa Clause is real, not the other way around.
     
  21. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,634
    The point is you can't prove he was real .

    I will help you a long and then see if you can prove He was real .
    http://www.militarymuseum.org/PacSqdn.html
     
  22. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    790
    Hurr? I'm telling YOU to prove he was real, lol. I don't believe in the Bible anymore.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    NO.

    You have already rejected the Message given through scripture. Reject it and you have already been blinded, so as nothing i will say will ever move you to believe.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     

Share This Page