Thread: The Paul File

  1. #1201
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking View Post
    What does this have to do with the monetary system? Do you mean capitalism?
    That's crony-Capitalism, made possible by the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve lending.

  2. #1202
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    As for cutting tax. Yes, this is interesting. I mean, you seem to think OMG you're "gutting" State and Federal Agencies. OK, but I didn't say I'm not supportive of what some of those agencies do. It really is something that will need thought through. As it stands the current monetary system is not working. At least as I see it. 12.5 BILLION in bonuses as the country sinks into debt and despair.
    Except the bonuses you mention have nothing to do with taxes or our monetary system.

    But, people have a propensity for accepting a shittier lot in life. Look at how long NK has lasted. Even 3 MILLION people starved to death and they still put up with the bullshit.
    No, the privileged in NK, which included the military and police didn't starve or have a shitty lot in life. The powerless peasants were those starving, not the dictators and their chosen few. Totally different issue and nothing to do with "putting up with the bullshit"

    It's crazy. Look at Iran. They should be living like any other European country, instead their living under a repressive Theocrapsy. People are like that.
    Why? They aren't a European country.
    They will live like Europeans when they figure out how to make things other people want to buy.
    The only reason they live as well as they do is because they have a lot of oil, but even for that they rely heavily on others to find, drill, pump, ship and refine it.

    Lets see how things go this year and the next in the USA.
    They seem to be improving, slowly but steadily. No particular reason to think that will change.

  3. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    That's crony-Capitalism, made possible by the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve lending.
    So when you said monitary system, you meant capitalism?

  4. #1204
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Except the bonuses you mention have nothing to do with taxes or our monetary system.
    Goldman$ux $12.5 Billion dollars in bonuses have NOTHING to do with our MONETARY SYSTEM?

    Come again?

    Apple OTOH - who actually made a product and is the largest company in the world outside of a couple oil companies gave out 60 million.

    Oh, yeah, but GoldmanSUX $12.5 BILLION for helping to ruin the world's economy has NOTHING at all to do with the Monetary system. Just move along folks. Nothing to see here.

    Please...


    No, the privileged in NK, which included the military and police didn't starve or have a shitty lot in life. The powerless peasants were those starving, not the dictators and their chosen few. Totally different issue and nothing to do with "putting up with the bullshit"
    Yeah, that's my point. Why don't those MILLIONS of peasants/slaves rise up and kill off the few privileged. One would think the solders would at least. But they don't. Everyone swallows the propaganda (Example: GoldmanSux $12.5 BILLION in year end bonuses has NOTHING at all to do with the corrupt monetary system) and get used to the bullshit and live with a lower standard of living.

    I wonder why they do that? I wouldn't.

    Why? They aren't a European country. They will live like Europeans when they figure out how to make things other people want to buy.
    We share a lot of history so I wonder why they haven't done that. I find Iranians that I meet extremely hardworking, intelligent and many are rich because they run successful businesses. Granted, they've left Iran so they're not "typical". I suppose the other problem could be their meesed up religious culture.

    They seem to be improving, slowly but steadily. No particular reason to think that will change.
    Ha, so you think we really can push on a string?

    It's not possible to print your way to prosperity.
    It's not possible to consume your way to prosperity either.
    You have to produce things other people want - just like you said. That isn't what has happened over the last 3 years. We're just running up more debt and growing the government. Manufacturing is NOT ever going to return to the USA .... at least not for decades.
    Last edited by Michael; 01-22-12 at 06:26 PM.

  5. #1205
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking View Post
    So when you said monitary system, you meant capitalism?
    No, I don't have a problem with saving and investing capital. That's capitalism. Capitalism would have saw many of the major banks go bust in 2008 - which would have taken down a large number of well connected incompetent wealthy families. What we have is crony-capitalism.

    All the debt was taken from them and put on to us.

    This was made possible through the Federal Reserve - it's obvious that the first thing we need to do to get back to a capitalistic prosperous society is to end the Federal Reserve.


    My feeling is we haven't see the slightest bit of it. It's like taking a shot of heroine for a massive brain crushing hangover and thinking: Hey Hey, I feel Great! That's what the bailouts were. More than likely things will just continue to go from bad to worse

    The worry is what comes afterwards. Do we lean towards liberty and freedom (something the Cattle haven't experienced in decades) or towards Stateism and debt Slavery?

    It seems to me we're just beginning to lean towards Fascism. A slight tilt in that direction. Look at the way Gingrich demagoged the crowd. Appeal the base instinct won the day. Whereas Paul's appeal to Liberty and Freedom seems to only grab about 15-25%.
    Last edited by Michael; 01-22-12 at 06:34 PM.

  6. #1206
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Goldman$ux $12.5 Billion dollars in bonuses have NOTHING to do with our MONETARY SYSTEM?

    Come again?
    Correct, the amount of compensation of the employees at a single company has nothing to do with our Monetary System

    And that wasn't the amount of Bonuses, as has been pointed out to you before, and so now you are just spreading lies.

    That's the total annual compensation for about ~40,000 employees.

  7. #1207
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Yeah, that's my point. Why don't those MILLIONS of peasants/slaves rise up and kill off the few privileged. One would think the solders would at least. But they don't. Everyone swallows the propaganda (Example: GoldmanSux $12.5 BILLION in year end bonuses has NOTHING at all to do with the corrupt monetary system) and get used to the bullshit and live with a lower standard of living.
    Because the peasants have no weaponry or organization and then there is the fact that the Military are part of the Privileged class.

    Duh!

    No, the only propaganda being spouted is YOU about Goldman giving 12.5 Billion in year end bonuses.

    QUIT LYING
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-23-12 at 10:51 AM.

  8. #1208
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    It's not possible to print your way to prosperity.
    It's not possible to consume your way to prosperity either.
    You have to produce things other people want - just like you said. That isn't what has happened over the last 3 years. We're just running up more debt and growing the government. Manufacturing is NOT ever going to return to the USA .... at least not for decades.
    And yet we remain the world's largest manufacturer.

    The United Nations Statistics Division most recent data shows the United States continues to lead, with ~21 percent of all global manufacturing output in terms of constant dollars.
    China is the second largest, with about 15 percent of global manufacturing.

  9. #1209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Manufacturing is NOT ever going to return to the USA .... at least not for decades.
    To some extent it is already returning. I have customers who have recaptured business lost to China years ago. And I'm talking about significant production contracts.

    Guess what; quality still matters.

    I have to chuckle a bit when I think about the Chinese making airplanes. Given their quality of construction of dams and housing, never mind all of the inferior products that we get from China today, I don't think I would ever set foot on a Chinese-made aircraft.

    I am reminded of a pair of wire strippers that I bought in a hurry last year. There was no brand name - just "China". They were design incorrectly and couldn't strip a wire. And this wasn't a manufacturing defect. This was a simple problem of measurement and design. Given that this was on the shelf here in the USA, one has to assume that no quality check was ever done and who knows how many thousands were shipped and sold that way. I've been in manufacturing my entire career and have never seen such incompetence. [well, unless you include their other episodes of melamine in dog food, anti-freeze in mouthwash, and lead in children's lunch boxes].
    Last edited by Ivan Seeking; 01-23-12 at 11:08 AM.

  10. #1210
    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Correct, the amount of compensation of the employees at a single company has nothing to do with our Monetary System

    And that wasn't the amount of Bonuses, as has been pointed out to you before, and so now you are just spreading lies.

    That's the total annual compensation for about ~40,000 employees.
    And Apple has around 300,000 - what's your point?

    GoldmanSux gave out $12.5 BILLION in bonuses for selling debt. In some cases, example: Greece, GoldmanSux helped the government secure massive amount of debt based credit by cooking the books, which has resulted in the Greek economy collapsing, perhaps the entire world's will follow suite. An employee from GoldmanSux coincidentally ended up running Greece and now Italy. Goldman Sachs Lost 98% of Libya's $1.3B Sovereign Wealth Fund Investment. That fund was to pay for Muslim girls to get a University education. You can thank your heros over at GoldmanSuxsweatyballs for destroying the education for a generation of women in Libya.

    Oh, but I'm sure they're well worth their $12.5 BILLION dollars in year end bonuses. They'd make a slave-trader blush.

    Apple OTOH actually makes a product - one that benefits people's lives the world over.
    GoldmanSux does exactly the opposite, they destroy lives. It's certainly no surprise a crook like Corzine came from GoldmanSux.



    Lastly, GoldmanSux is ONLY able to make money due to the current debt-based monetary system.
    Lets see how long they can keep eating their tail.

  11. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking View Post
    To some extent it is already returning. I have customers who have recaptured business lost to China years ago. And I'm talking about significant production contracts.

    Guess what; quality still matters.

    I have to chuckle a bit when I think about the Chinese making airplanes. Given their quality of construction of dams and housing, never mind all of the inferior products that we get from China today, I don't think I would ever set foot on a Chinese-made aircraft.

    I am reminded of a pair of wire strippers that I bought in a hurry last year. There was no brand name - just "China". They were design incorrectly and couldn't strip a wire. And this wasn't a manufacturing defect. This was a simple problem of measurement and design. Given that this was on the shelf here in the USA, one has to assume that no quality check was ever done and who knows how many thousands were shipped and sold that way. I've been in manufacturing my entire career and have never seen such incompetence. [well, unless you include their other episodes of melamine in dog food, anti-freeze in mouthwash, and lead in children's lunch boxes].
    They also make PS3, Toyota, computers, 55" flat-screen TVs, iPhones, iPads, and etc.... Chinese can make quality products if that's what the market demands. Obviously they make a LOT of shit stuff too.

    That said, I was in a toy story last year with a Japanese friend (this was in Michigan). And she wanted to buy some stuff that was "Made in the USA" to take back to Japan. We found two things. (1) a bag of hard plastic colored balls. You know, in an orange bag like you'd get at the grocery store. They kind of smelled like plastic and we decided they may be poisonous. cost $12 (2) lip balm. cost $2.50. She bought the lipbalm.

    A small handheld computer toy "made in China" for learning to read and write English (or Spanish) was $45 and came with 2 free CD learning games. She got one of those too.


    The lip balm container broke about half way through the balm.
    Last edited by Michael; 01-23-12 at 06:33 PM.

  12. #1212
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    GoldmanSux gave out $12.5 BILLION in bonuses for selling debt. .
    Your data is wrong.

    That's not the amount of year end bonuses (although in researching this I found that headline plastered all over the internet) in fact it is their total compensation expense for the year, which includes salaries, bonuses, stock awards and benefits for the company’s 34,200 workers (as of Sept. 30)

    The only question is will you continue to help spread the lie and if so why?
    Last edited by adoucette; 01-24-12 at 08:23 AM.

  13. #1213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy T View Post
    You have “cheery picked” a very unusual three month period when this decade long trend AWAY from holding dollars very slightly reversed.
    I simply reported the most recent data, because the topic was what was going on right now, in the present day, and not "decade-long trends." If you had been trafficking in assertions about long-term trends, then you'd have a point with this complaint.

    But since you were, in point of fact, trafficking in assertions about what is happening right now, I can only interpret your overwrought reply as a rear-guard action to draw attention away from your characteristically sloppy grasp of the data. I also note the implicit refusal to actually analyze the current data, rather than dismiss them out-of-hand as an anomaly without any salient analysis of such. These sorts of childish tactics do not become someone who'd pretend to moderate an economics and business forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy T View Post
    The reason it did is the same reason the 10 year Treasury bond is paying the least ever: 1.8%.* Namely many including central banks are buying dollars to decrease their exposure to the Euro.
    So you agree that there is increased demand for dollar holdings, including in the foreign exchange reserves of central banks, and that your previous statement (to which I replied):

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy T View Post
    Point is China, like most every one else of importance, is reducing the fraction of their reserves held in dollars as much as they can,
    ... is clearly wrong. In which case, it would have been better on you to just admit such like an adult and move on, instead of engaging in the inane tactics seen above.

  14. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    That your data is wrong.
    No it isn't. You'll have no trouble finding that figure in any number of reputable news publications.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=goldman+sachs+bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    Goldman Sachs only made about 5 Billion in profit last year.
    Profits are what you have left over after you pay your various expenses, such as bonuses and other forms of employee compensation.

  15. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
    Ha! That's pretty cool

    It even has a Ron Paul ad on the bottom??? Coincidence???
    Last edited by Michael; 01-23-12 at 10:41 PM.

  16. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    They also make PS3, Toyota, computers, 55" flat-screen TVs, iPhones, iPads, and etc.... Chinese can make quality products if that's what the market demands. Obviously they make a LOT of shit stuff too.
    My Toyota was made in the US. And yes, they can make quality products with US oversight.

    Made In USA? A Toyota Is ‘Most American’ Car
    http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...-american-car/

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael
    That said, I was in a toy story last year with a Japanese friend (this was in Michigan). And she wanted to buy some stuff that was "Made in the USA" to take back to Japan. We found two things. (1) a bag of hard plastic colored balls. You know, in an orange bag like you'd get at the grocery store. They kind of smelled like plastic and we decided they may be poisonous.
    So you have a vivid imagination. I'll remember that. I didn't imagine toxic dog food and poison mouthwash. The Chinese have now established a history of outrageous irresposbility, and that's coming home to roost.

    In addition to my own observations of actual production orders in real companies, are more general trends.

    Made in America: Trend against outsourcing brings jobs back from China

    The United States may be on the verge of bringing back manufacturing jobs from China.

    Harold Sirkin, along with Michael Zinser and Douglas Hohner (all experts from the Boston Consulting Group – a leading management consulting firm), says that outsourcing manufacturing to China is not as cheap as it used to be and that the United States is poised to bring back jobs from China. The three consultants first reached this conclusion in a recently published study titled “Made in America, Again: Why Manufacturing Will Return to the U.S.”...
    http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_new...ack-from-china

    From what I can see, China has enjoyed the benefits of incredibly cheap labor, very little regulation [product safety, product quality, product testing], and very loose or non-existent pollution laws and labor laws. But none of this can continue indefinitely, which means the cost of production will increase.

    ... Here, Chinese leaders have acknowledged that lead contamination is a grave issue and have raised the priority of reducing heavy-metal pollution in the government’s latest five-year plan, presented in March. But despite efforts to step up enforcement, including suspending production last month at a number of battery factories, the government’s response remains faltering.

    At a meeting last month of China’s State Council, after yet another disclosure of mass poisoning, Prime Minister Wen Jiabao scolded Environmental Minister Zhou Shengxian for the lack of progress, according to an individual with high-level government ties who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

    The government has not ordered a nationwide survey of children’s blood lead levels, so the number of children who are at risk is purely a matter of guesswork. Mass poisonings like that at the Haijiu factory typically come to light only after suspicious parents seek hospital tests, then alert neighbors or co-workers to the alarming results.

    The few published studies point to a huge problem. One 2001 research paper called lead poisoning one of the most common pediatric health problems in China. A 2006 review of existing data suggested that one-third of Chinese children suffer from elevated blood lead levels...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/wo...pagewanted=all

    I know about the issue of lead poisoning in China because a friend of my wife's went to China to teach. He had to come back because he had lead poisoning.
    Last edited by Ivan Seeking; 01-23-12 at 11:20 PM.

  17. #1217
    I completely agree that China is polluted all to hell and has some serious problems to deal with. Also, if oil prices go up, then it will probably be a bit cheaper to make things closer to where they're going to be sold. But, Chinese do make a lot high quality products as well, like iPhones or PS3. They can do it.

    I personally find it disgusting that people are paid 0.30 cents an hour. I actually try NOT to not buy made in China sometimes. Sometimes this works out well, I get a decent set of headphones made in Japan and sometimes it doesn't. Like the time I paid 4 times more to buy a fricken pasta maker from Italy and it broke 2 months later. It has like all of 2 moving parts and one of them broke

    I'm not sure how we got off on this tangent, but, GO RON PAUL!!!!

  18. #1218

  19. #1219
    Quote Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
    No it isn't. You'll have no trouble finding that figure in any number of reputable news publications.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=goldman+sachs+bonuses
    And the reputable news publications don't repeat that lie.

    They point out that that is NOT just year end bonuses, but the total yearly compensation cost for all the employees including stock options and benefits.

    In fact Goldman Sachs has cut pay and bonus payments relating to last year’s trading by around 20 per cent.

    The total level of annual pay and bonuses will be £7.4 billion or ~$11.5 billion for ~32,000 employees.

    http://www.myfinances.co.uk/investme...-halve-in-2011

  20. #1220
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    Quote Originally Posted by adoucette View Post
    They point out that that is NOT just year end bonuses, but the total yearly compensation cost for all the employees including stock options and benefits.
    Oh, well, that's just totally different. I guess as long as the billions are being payed out in the form of stock options and benefits, that's somehow not the same as compensating employees to the tune of $12 billion last year. Somehow.

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