01-22-12, 08:20 AM #1201
01-22-12, 09:24 AM #1202
But, people have a propensity for accepting a shittier lot in life. Look at how long NK has lasted. Even 3 MILLION people starved to death and they still put up with the bullshit.
It's crazy. Look at Iran. They should be living like any other European country, instead their living under a repressive Theocrapsy. People are like that.
They will live like Europeans when they figure out how to make things other people want to buy.
The only reason they live as well as they do is because they have a lot of oil, but even for that they rely heavily on others to find, drill, pump, ship and refine it.
Lets see how things go this year and the next in the USA.
01-22-12, 01:47 PM #1203
01-22-12, 06:12 PM #1204
Apple OTOH - who actually made a product and is the largest company in the world outside of a couple oil companies gave out 60 million.
Oh, yeah, but GoldmanSUX $12.5 BILLION for helping to ruin the world's economy has NOTHING at all to do with the Monetary system. Just move along folks. Nothing to see here.
No, the privileged in NK, which included the military and police didn't starve or have a shitty lot in life. The powerless peasants were those starving, not the dictators and their chosen few. Totally different issue and nothing to do with "putting up with the bullshit"
I wonder why they do that? I wouldn't.
Why? They aren't a European country. They will live like Europeans when they figure out how to make things other people want to buy.
They seem to be improving, slowly but steadily. No particular reason to think that will change.
It's not possible to print your way to prosperity.
It's not possible to consume your way to prosperity either.
You have to produce things other people want - just like you said. That isn't what has happened over the last 3 years. We're just running up more debt and growing the government. Manufacturing is NOT ever going to return to the USA .... at least not for decades.
Last edited by Michael; 01-22-12 at 07:26 PM.
01-22-12, 06:21 PM #1205
All the debt was taken from them and put on to us.
This was made possible through the Federal Reserve - it's obvious that the first thing we need to do to get back to a capitalistic prosperous society is to end the Federal Reserve.
My feeling is we haven't see the slightest bit of it. It's like taking a shot of heroine for a massive brain crushing hangover and thinking: Hey Hey, I feel Great! That's what the bailouts were. More than likely things will just continue to go from bad to worse
The worry is what comes afterwards. Do we lean towards liberty and freedom (something the Cattle haven't experienced in decades) or towards Stateism and debt Slavery?
It seems to me we're just beginning to lean towards Fascism. A slight tilt in that direction. Look at the way Gingrich demagoged the crowd. Appeal the base instinct won the day. Whereas Paul's appeal to Liberty and Freedom seems to only grab about 15-25%.
Last edited by Michael; 01-22-12 at 07:34 PM.
01-23-12, 10:52 AM #1206
And that wasn't the amount of Bonuses, as has been pointed out to you before, and so now you are just spreading lies.
That's the total annual compensation for about ~40,000 employees.
01-23-12, 10:55 AM #1207
Last edited by adoucette; 01-23-12 at 11:51 AM.
01-23-12, 11:02 AM #1208
The United Nations Statistics Division most recent data shows the United States continues to lead, with ~21 percent of all global manufacturing output in terms of constant dollars.
China is the second largest, with about 15 percent of global manufacturing.
01-23-12, 11:47 AM #1209
Guess what; quality still matters.
I have to chuckle a bit when I think about the Chinese making airplanes. Given their quality of construction of dams and housing, never mind all of the inferior products that we get from China today, I don't think I would ever set foot on a Chinese-made aircraft.
I am reminded of a pair of wire strippers that I bought in a hurry last year. There was no brand name - just "China". They were design incorrectly and couldn't strip a wire. And this wasn't a manufacturing defect. This was a simple problem of measurement and design. Given that this was on the shelf here in the USA, one has to assume that no quality check was ever done and who knows how many thousands were shipped and sold that way. I've been in manufacturing my entire career and have never seen such incompetence. [well, unless you include their other episodes of melamine in dog food, anti-freeze in mouthwash, and lead in children's lunch boxes].
Last edited by Ivan Seeking; 01-23-12 at 12:08 PM.
01-23-12, 07:20 PM #1210
GoldmanSux gave out $12.5 BILLION in bonuses for selling debt. In some cases, example: Greece, GoldmanSux helped the government secure massive amount of debt based credit by cooking the books, which has resulted in the Greek economy collapsing, perhaps the entire world's will follow suite. An employee from GoldmanSux coincidentally ended up running Greece and now Italy. Goldman Sachs Lost 98% of Libya's $1.3B Sovereign Wealth Fund Investment. That fund was to pay for Muslim girls to get a University education. You can thank your heros over at GoldmanSuxsweatyballs for destroying the education for a generation of women in Libya.
Oh, but I'm sure they're well worth their $12.5 BILLION dollars in year end bonuses. They'd make a slave-trader blush.
Apple OTOH actually makes a product - one that benefits people's lives the world over.
GoldmanSux does exactly the opposite, they destroy lives. It's certainly no surprise a crook like Corzine came from GoldmanSux.
Lastly, GoldmanSux is ONLY able to make money due to the current debt-based monetary system.
Lets see how long they can keep eating their tail.
01-23-12, 07:28 PM #1211
That said, I was in a toy story last year with a Japanese friend (this was in Michigan). And she wanted to buy some stuff that was "Made in the USA" to take back to Japan. We found two things. (1) a bag of hard plastic colored balls. You know, in an orange bag like you'd get at the grocery store. They kind of smelled like plastic and we decided they may be poisonous. cost $12 (2) lip balm. cost $2.50. She bought the lipbalm.
A small handheld computer toy "made in China" for learning to read and write English (or Spanish) was $45 and came with 2 free CD learning games. She got one of those too.
The lip balm container broke about half way through the balm.
Last edited by Michael; 01-23-12 at 07:33 PM.
01-23-12, 07:39 PM #1212
That's not the amount of year end bonuses (although in researching this I found that headline plastered all over the internet) in fact it is their total compensation expense for the year, which includes salaries, bonuses, stock awards and benefits for the company’s 34,200 workers (as of Sept. 30)
The only question is will you continue to help spread the lie and if so why?
Last edited by adoucette; 01-24-12 at 09:23 AM.
01-23-12, 07:41 PM #1213
But since you were, in point of fact, trafficking in assertions about what is happening right now, I can only interpret your overwrought reply as a rear-guard action to draw attention away from your characteristically sloppy grasp of the data. I also note the implicit refusal to actually analyze the current data, rather than dismiss them out-of-hand as an anomaly without any salient analysis of such. These sorts of childish tactics do not become someone who'd pretend to moderate an economics and business forum.
01-23-12, 07:44 PM #1214
01-23-12, 11:33 PM #1215
01-23-12, 11:50 PM #1216
Made In USA? A Toyota Is ‘Most American’ Car
Originally Posted by Michael
In addition to my own observations of actual production orders in real companies, are more general trends.
Made in America: Trend against outsourcing brings jobs back from China
The United States may be on the verge of bringing back manufacturing jobs from China.
Harold Sirkin, along with Michael Zinser and Douglas Hohner (all experts from the Boston Consulting Group – a leading management consulting firm), says that outsourcing manufacturing to China is not as cheap as it used to be and that the United States is poised to bring back jobs from China. The three consultants first reached this conclusion in a recently published study titled “Made in America, Again: Why Manufacturing Will Return to the U.S.”...
From what I can see, China has enjoyed the benefits of incredibly cheap labor, very little regulation [product safety, product quality, product testing], and very loose or non-existent pollution laws and labor laws. But none of this can continue indefinitely, which means the cost of production will increase.
... Here, Chinese leaders have acknowledged that lead contamination is a grave issue and have raised the priority of reducing heavy-metal pollution in the government’s latest five-year plan, presented in March. But despite efforts to step up enforcement, including suspending production last month at a number of battery factories, the government’s response remains faltering.
At a meeting last month of China’s State Council, after yet another disclosure of mass poisoning, Prime Minister Wen Jiabao scolded Environmental Minister Zhou Shengxian for the lack of progress, according to an individual with high-level government ties who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The government has not ordered a nationwide survey of children’s blood lead levels, so the number of children who are at risk is purely a matter of guesswork. Mass poisonings like that at the Haijiu factory typically come to light only after suspicious parents seek hospital tests, then alert neighbors or co-workers to the alarming results.
The few published studies point to a huge problem. One 2001 research paper called lead poisoning one of the most common pediatric health problems in China. A 2006 review of existing data suggested that one-third of Chinese children suffer from elevated blood lead levels...
I know about the issue of lead poisoning in China because a friend of my wife's went to China to teach. He had to come back because he had lead poisoning.
Last edited by Ivan Seeking; 01-24-12 at 12:20 AM.
01-24-12, 01:53 AM #1217
I completely agree that China is polluted all to hell and has some serious problems to deal with. Also, if oil prices go up, then it will probably be a bit cheaper to make things closer to where they're going to be sold. But, Chinese do make a lot high quality products as well, like iPhones or PS3. They can do it.
I personally find it disgusting that people are paid 0.30 cents an hour. I actually try NOT to not buy made in China sometimes. Sometimes this works out well, I get a decent set of headphones made in Japan and sometimes it doesn't. Like the time I paid 4 times more to buy a fricken pasta maker from Italy and it broke 2 months later. It has like all of 2 moving parts and one of them broke
I'm not sure how we got off on this tangent, but, GO RON PAUL!!!!
01-24-12, 07:54 AM #1218
01-24-12, 09:34 AM #1219
They point out that that is NOT just year end bonuses, but the total yearly compensation cost for all the employees including stock options and benefits.
In fact Goldman Sachs has cut pay and bonus payments relating to last year’s trading by around 20 per cent.
The total level of annual pay and bonuses will be £7.4 billion or ~$11.5 billion for ~32,000 employees.
01-24-12, 09:15 PM #1220
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