American involvment in the world

[yaracuy]

We have two oceans between the Arabs or Muslims nations. Why don't we just live them alone, let the fight their wars let them kill their own, why do we have to sacrifice our people
Unfortunately every Idiot that becomes the president have not learned from history , We had Korea , Vietnam, Irak. Afghanistan, and now Libya, Yemen .

[superstring01]

Wait? The 148,000 other threads covering this topic weren't enough for you?

~String

[Michael]

Wait? The 148,000 other threads covering this topic weren't enough for you?

~String

LOL

We have two oceans between the Arabs or Muslims nations. Why don't we just live them alone, let the fight their wars let them kill their own, why do we have to sacrifice our people
Unfortunately every Idiot that becomes the president have not learned from history , We had Korea , Vietnam, Irak. Afghanistan, and now Libya, Yemen .

Learn about the reserve currency and how your lifestyle depends on it.

[S.A.M.]

Problem is Americans have no other source of employment for all the hundreds of thousands of people making up their military industrial complex

[Gustav]

true
yemen and ivory coast are now hiring a few good men
yay!

[Michael]

I think if we had a properly functioning economy with less bullshit we just maybe could employ a lot of those people. People clever enough to build fighter jets and nuclear submarines can build new energy devices and new medical equipment.

Take this for example. I wanted to import a Japanese car from Japan. My Gods, all this bullshit red tape? Why?!?! How on earth did I end up with a government with 29 different levels of bureaucracy trying to tax me ten different way to bring in my own car? Geesh, it'd make the Byzantium blush. Mean while Banksters print money out of f*cking thin-Ethernet and get to speculate on all sorts of shit. Tails they win. Heads we lose.

Don't they know they will be the ones with heads on pikes? Haven't they read history?

[zshshz]

the american are fight for freedom for libya,cote divice

[spidergoat]

We have two oceans between the Arabs or Muslims nations. Why don't we just live them alone, let the fight their wars let them kill their own, why do we have to sacrifice our people
Unfortunately every Idiot that becomes the president have not learned from history , We had Korea , Vietnam, Irak. Afghanistan, and now Libya, Yemen .

Oceans never protected us. They want to kill us so we will kill them first.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Problem is Americans have no other source of employment for all the hundreds of thousands of people making up their military industrial complex

During the Cold War the so-called "defense" industry supported the economy of several entire states. When Glasnost/Perestroika happened and the Soviet economy imploded, because they had finally liquidated their own surplus wealth (or "capital") and there were no more neighboring countries to annex and appropriate their surplus wealth, there was a recession in Los Angeles because all the aircraft factories and other "defense" plants shut down.

Nonetheless we managed to assimilate all those workers back into the civilian economy. I'm sure we could do it again.

But it's easier to just set up the Muslims as the new Communists.

[S.A.M.]

During the Cold War the so-called "defense" industry supported the economy of several entire states. When Glasnost/Perestroika happened and the Soviet economy imploded, because they had finally liquidated their own surplus wealth (or "capital") and there were no more neighboring countries to annex and appropriate their surplus wealth, there was a recession in Los Angeles because all the aircraft factories and other "defense" plants shut down.

Nonetheless we managed to assimilate all those workers back into the civilian economy. I'm sure we could do it again.

But it's easier to just set up the Muslims as the new Communists.

Interesting. One of the lessons that the Muslim world is fast learning is that in countries where Americans train the cops and troops there is a chilling difference in the attitude towards prisoners. What makes it even more creepy is that these attitudes are the result of experimentation into these techniques

“Through the Wire” by Nina Rosenblum, presented on PBS’s “POV” in 1990, described how the U.S. government began experimenting with prisons that “torture” political prisoners

“In 1986, three women convicted of politically-motivated nonviolent offenses were transferred to a secret, subterranean prison where they were kept in constantly-lit near isolation, watched 24 hours a day and strip-searched routinely for nearly two years. The women were not imprisoned in Turkey or Iran or Chile, but in Lexington, Ky. This startling film is simultaneously a frank account of three uncompromising women who would not renounce their political affiliations and a chilling expose of the secret unit in which they were confined.” http://www.pbs.org/pov/throughthewire/

[EmptyForceOfChi]

We have two oceans between the Arabs or Muslims nations. Why don't we just live them alone, let the fight their wars let them kill their own, why do we have to sacrifice our people
Unfortunately every Idiot that becomes the president have not learned from history , We had Korea , Vietnam, Irak. Afghanistan, and now Libya, Yemen .

Not to mention the fact america cannot win in afganistan, it is the graveyard of empires.

Peace.

[RAW2000]

Originally Posted by EmptyForceOfChi
Not to mention the fact america cannot win in afganistan, it is the graveyard of empires.

Just because something hasn't been done yet doesn't make it impossible.

[Billy T]

... Unfortunately every Idiot that becomes the president have not learned from history , We had Korea , Vietnam, Irak. Afghanistan, and now Libya, Yemen .

Partly because, even presidents don't know history - They trained as lawyers (or in one case as an actor in make believe worlds).

Hot off the presses, in 3 days, is a Non-American, famous Muslim's take on the Iraq war (and other things in his just released book):

"... Mohamed ElBaradei suggests in a new memoir that Bush administration officials should face international criminal investigation for the "shame of a needless war" in Iraq.

Freer to speak now than he was as an international civil servant, the Nobel-winning Egyptian accuses U.S. leaders of "grotesque distortion" in the run-up to the 2003 Iraq invasion, when then-President George W. Bush and his lieutenants claimed Iraq possessed doomsday weapons despite contrary evidence* collected by ElBaradei's and other arms inspectors inside the country.

The Iraq war taught him that "deliberate deception was not limited to small countries ruled by ruthless dictators," ElBaradei writes in "The Age of Deception," being published Tuesday by Henry Holt and Company.

The 68-year-old legal scholar, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) from 1997 to 2009 and recently a rallying figure in Egypt's revolution, concludes his 321-page account of two decades of "tedious, wrenching" nuclear diplomacy with a plea for more of it, particularly in the efforts to rein in North Korean and Iranian nuclear ambitions. ..."

Quote from: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110422/...baradei_memoir
----------
* One piece of supporting evidence presented was copy of letter from Nigerian government which seemed to be replying to Saddam's government request for prices of Uranium, etc. The CIA had fabricated the letter on Nigerian agency's stationary - a very good job, except for one detail. The name of the agency had changed a few months before the letter was dated and many letters existed on the new stationary so they were not just using up an old stationary supply. (CIA had used old stationary to copy from and did not know of the new.)

For years, I have been telling in posts the real reason for the Iraq war. Here is a recent one:

... but the real reason for Iraq invasion and for the strong French and Russian resistance to it is more related to fact France's Total oil company had all the oil contracts, which US based companies wanted AND Russian companies had all the oil field equipment and maintance contracts, which Dick Cheney wanted for his company, Halliburton. (He was the CEO with large pensions just suspended while he was VP)

Cheney was much more intelligent than GWB, and soon had Bush buying into the WMD line to justify the invasion, (and several others before the final "liberate Iraq from evil Saddam" was the reason for the war.) That took some flexibility and skill as only a few years earlier Donald Rumsfeld was in Baghdad, photographed shaking Saddam's hand, back when the US was arming and assisting Iraq in the Iraq/Iran war.

"... {now declassified} documents show that during this period of renewed U.S. support for Saddam, he had invaded his neighbor (Iran), had long-range nuclear aspirations that would "probably" include "an eventual nuclear weapon capability," harbored known terrorists in Baghdad, abused the human rights of his citizens, and possessed and used chemical weapons on Iranians and his own people. The U.S. response was to renew ties, to provide intelligence* and aid to ensure Iraq would not be defeated by Iran, and to send a high-level presidential envoy named Donald Rumsfeld to shake hands with Saddam (20 December 1983) ..."
FROM: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm

* Especially spy satellite photos of where Iranian troops were concentrated so the poison gas attacks could be more effective.

It is interesting to note that Saddam's "trial" concerned fact he promptly killed (no trial) about dozen Kurds who had tried to assassinate him. Not one word in the trial concerned his war crime of using poison gas. The US directed that be the case, so Saddam could not bring up the fact that the US aided him to commit his war crimes.

Unfortunately GWB and Cheney, etc. will all be dead before he full extent of US's war crimes in Iraq is known with full documentation. Georgetown University, via freedom of information act, is assembling large library of documents for history researchers to study. The US's and CIA's role in destroying democracy in almost all South American countries during the cold war era is well documented there. Typically the dictatorships were set up by supplying arms, money and advice / information to local right wing groups.

[Asguard]

During the Cold War the so-called "defense" industry supported the economy of several entire states. When Glasnost/Perestroika happened and the Soviet economy imploded, because they had finally liquidated their own surplus wealth (or "capital") and there were no more neighboring countries to annex and appropriate their surplus wealth, there was a recession in Los Angeles because all the aircraft factories and other "defense" plants shut down.

Nonetheless we managed to assimilate all those workers back into the civilian economy. I'm sure we could do it again.

But it's easier to just set up the Muslims as the new Communists.

You know what's sad, one of the goals of the British NHS was to provide the same level of employment by helping people as they had during the war. Its sad that the US would rather kill people to maintain jobs than use these same people to help

[chimpkin]

You know what's sad, one of the goals of the British NHS was to provide the same level of employment by helping people as they had during the war. Its sad that the US would rather kill people to maintain jobs than use these same people to help

Interesting point that...

[Luis A.C.ROMANELLI]

That`s very real ! ! !
I think that contries must resolve their own questions and whithout WARs ! ! !
.........................HAVE A NICE DAY

[Dywyddyr]

I think that contries must resolve their own questions and whithout WARs ! ! !

An excellent well argued proposition.
But you missed and hand out free ice cream.

[Odin'Izm]

Just because something hasn't been done yet doesn't make it impossible.

Maybe in an infinite time span, but most certainly if it hasn't been done in the past 1000 years, it certainly wont be done in the next 50.

[Billy T]

Don't want to start new thread - this one will almost do for:

"... Turkish troops backed by fighter jets and helicopter gunships have {today} pursued Kurdish rebels into Iraq. … at least two simultaneous ambushes (by Kurdish separates}- took place in Cukurca and the district of Yuksekova overnight. - 24 {Turkish} soldiers were killed and 18 injured, revising an earlier figure of 26 dead.

This is the biggest attack in terms of soldiers' loss of life since 1993, says the BBC's Jonathan Head in Istanbul, and the public pressure to respond is intense. The question is how long it {turkey} can retain the {passive} support of the Iraqi and regional Kurdish governments, particularly as civilians inside Iraq have been killed in some recent operations. …”

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15369352

Billy T thinks: that if many Kurds living in Iraq are killed by the Turkish army/air force operations inside Iraq, AND Baghdad only makes diplomatic protest about the Turkish invasion of Iraq, then there will be increasing demands by those Kurds, for their own separate state. I.e. the net effect may be the birth at long last of Kurdistan, separate from Iraq.

It would be a viable state as near Mosul, which would be the new capital, there is a lot of oil. Getting it to market would be the problem – probably solved by Iran route to the Black Sea or the new Chinese pipeline which collects oil from that region;

However, if the split off of Kurdistan from Iraq is negotiated, perhaps the Kurdish oil goes thru Iraq to the Gulf? A smaller less diverse Iraq may be more stable Iraq so a negotiated split, which gives oil money to Iraq, is at least conceivable.

SUMMARY: Only thing sure is with Saddam's Iraq gone, we ain't heard the end of this yet.

[spidergoat]

Not to mention the fact america cannot win in afganistan, it is the graveyard of empires.

Peace.

Including their own!

It's the same factors that limit their own nation's development, so... nothing to be proud of. It's like a women that boasts about being too ugly to rape.