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Thread: Should man rely on himself or God?

  1. #1
    Valued Senior Member Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Should man rely on himself or God?

    Should man rely on himself or God?

    I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

    The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNE7x...eature=related

    If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply Godís standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

    If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

    I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

    Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

    Regards
    DL

  2. #2
    Actually, according to the scripture, God encourages reliance on him. In fact, the scripture goes further saying that people should depend on God. Hebrews 4:16, Luke 11:13, and examples of failiure to rely on God can be found in Nu 20:12, Dt 1:32; 9:23, 2Ki 17:14, Ps 49:6 and Isa 42:17

  3. #3
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I'd think each person should choose who they believe in. The right to choose is the greatest thing a free society can ever give to its citizens. Some people need myths and legends to believe in while others do not.

  4. #4
    As a scientist I give the scriptures the same level of scrutiny as any other document. This leads me to believe that it is the basic tenets described in the stories, legends and parables that are important. The messages are quite clear, and should one decide to follow them one will lead a good and healthy life. These days, most people are literate and educated. This allows for a greater degree of awareness and the abitity to make informed choises.
    So long as a person wants to live a good life, he can do so through the scriptures or through considered living. I'm not sure if it really makes much difference in the end. The goals are basically the same.

  5. #5
    Valued Senior Member Jan Ardena's Avatar
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    GIA,

    The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

    This inference is a trigger that stops you from really opening your mind.
    A+E made their choice, knowing the consequences of their action.

    jan.
    Last edited by Jan Ardena; 03-08-11 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Valued Senior Member SciWriter's Avatar
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    3,015
    Elaborating on myth is just more presumption, but, given that, Adam and Eve were literally "born yesterday", as adults, not even having had a childhood, and God, with His infinite knowledge, didn't even know that when you tell someone not to touch something, they probably will, having focused on it all the more.

    Just more myth-takes, as usual.

  7. #7
    had a mod but let him go spidergoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    Should man rely on himself or God?
    What's the difference?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Ardena View Post
    GIA,

    This inference is a trigger that stops you from really opening your mind.
    A+E made their choice, knowing the consequences of their action.

    jan.
    They didn't know the difference between right and wrong.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    Should man rely on himself or God?

    I do not agree at all with the premise in this link and think that any God would prefer to create a self reliant autonomous people that he could released and set free. We are not to be a make work project for God.

    The link also says that we are to walk, dwell, govern, and create with God. It also says that we are given a choice to rely on God or on ourselves yet the moment A & E relied on their own judgment, God came down on them harder than any parent would ever dream of. Not just A & E were made to suffer but all of us with original sin and we were consigned to a cursed earth. Quite the free choice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNE7x...eature=related

    If on earth as it is in heaven is to have any kind of meaning for us, then to apply Godís standards of children having to rely forever on parental leadership is counter to what any good man would want for his children.

    If at some point in time, my children did not take responsibility for their own actions, then I would say that I am a failure as a parent. All children must be allowed to grow up to adulthood.

    I see God giving man dominion just exactly for this reason.

    Should mankind then eventually allow God to move on, or should we force him to be our baby sitter forever?

    Regards
    DL
    O.K. I will stay calm . Dude you should not just allow your children to grow. You need to feed them, Spiritually physically and mentally . Mind Body and Spirit makes for a healthy human being. So you don't allow your children to go blindly through life. My rule of thumb is to praise them every chance I get . The sooner you start this the sooner they believe it and there belief systems in them selves guide them to great contributions . Plus the children like what they do and by success in there endeavors they are motivated to work on things even harder. The old saying Success breeds success . It works

  10. #10
    We're under no illusions.
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    I don't get the OP's question,.It's like asking should we rely on ourselves or a zebra.??

    Now if we go into the made up world, here would be the truth.Even given the falling numbers in Christianity and counting the other religions claiming their god(s) we still have a large following.Followers being what they are would be relying on god.If we look around us at the World we can see it's in shambles,thus the act of following god isn't working out so well.All that's left is ourselves,if we all worked together we could turn this around.

    Whats stopping us from working together now? Answer is to many groups following their own god and religious practices and thinking they know what their god wants,which is different from others gods.If you rely on your god you then depend on it.That dependency causes your inaction.No action equals what you see today.

  11. #11
    If I have cow dung inside my skull, it doesn't matter to whom I rely on. I will flunk anyway.

  12. #12
    I believe man needs to rely on and hold themselves responsible. We have this tendency to allow god to take all the blame for our wrong actions. Aswell as giving god credit for shit he didnt do as far as im concerned. "Thank God that man saved that child from getting hit by that bus! Praise Jesus!" NO. Thank you dude who saved the damn kid. See where im getting at? Personally, i believe society will eventual evolve to where the only religions on earth are that worshiping and praising human beings potential and wonder.

  13. #13
    Valued Senior Member Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ULTRA View Post
    Actually, according to the scripture, God encourages reliance on him. In fact, the scripture goes further saying that people should depend on God. Hebrews 4:16, Luke 11:13, and examples of failiure to rely on God can be found in Nu 20:12, Dt 1:32; 9:23, 2Ki 17:14, Ps 49:6 and Isa 42:17
    I agree.
    According to scripture God never wants to lose his slaves, I agree.
    His so called free will gift----do it my way or burn forever ---shows this quite well.

    You did not really answer the question though.
    Care to.

    Regards
    DL

  14. #14
    Valued Senior Member Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I'd think each person should choose who they believe in. The right to choose is the greatest thing a free society can ever give to its citizens. Some people need myths and legends to believe in while others do not.
    I agree.
    You did not really answer the question though.
    Care to.

    Regards
    DL

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat View Post
    What's the difference?
    I agree with this.

  16. #16
    Valued Senior Member Greatest I am's Avatar
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    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by ULTRA View Post
    As a scientist I give the scriptures the same level of scrutiny as any other document. This leads me to believe that it is the basic tenets described in the stories, legends and parables that are important. The messages are quite clear, and should one decide to follow them one will lead a good and healthy life. These days, most people are literate and educated. This allows for a greater degree of awareness and the abitity to make informed choises.
    So long as a person wants to live a good life, he can do so through the scriptures or through considered living. I'm not sure if it really makes much difference in the end. The goals are basically the same.
    A good life means good laws. Are laws like those spoken of here what you would promote?
    How about equality for Gays and women?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2_LqOS3uo

    Regards
    DL

  17. #17
    Valued Senior Member Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Ardena View Post
    GIA,




    This inference is a trigger that stops you from really opening your mind.
    A+E made their choice, knowing the consequences of their action.

    jan.
    Yes they did. They showed that they were autonomous and free and were punished for it.
    I still thank God, so to speak, that they chose to be intelligent instead of following God’s command to remain as bright as a cow.

    What would you do?
    Give up the opportunity for a moral sense or follow them?

    BTW. Your "knowing the consequences of their action." is quite wrong.

    Try to get the quote where God warned them of the sin being passed down to their children, us.
    You will not find it.

    Regards
    DL

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat View Post
    What's the difference?
    Less wealth wasted on nothing.
    Imagine what the world would look like if all those past resources would have gone to worthy projects. Like poverty.

    Regards
    DL

  19. #19
    Valued Senior Member Greatest I am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me-Ki-Gal View Post
    O.K. I will stay calm . Dude you should not just allow your children to grow. You need to feed them, Spiritually physically and mentally . Mind Body and Spirit makes for a healthy human being. So you don't allow your children to go blindly through life. My rule of thumb is to praise them every chance I get . The sooner you start this the sooner they believe it and there belief systems in them selves guide them to great contributions . Plus the children like what they do and by success in there endeavors they are motivated to work on things even harder. The old saying Success breeds success . It works
    Why would you not be calm?

    I like your child rearing methods.

    You did not answer the question though. Care to?

    Regards
    DL

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-Man2 View Post
    I don't get the OP's question,.It's like asking should we rely on ourselves or a zebra.??

    Now if we go into the made up world, here would be the truth.Even given the falling numbers in Christianity and counting the other religions claiming their god(s) we still have a large following.Followers being what they are would be relying on god.If we look around us at the World we can see it's in shambles,thus the act of following god isn't working out so well.All that's left is ourselves,if we all worked together we could turn this around.

    Whats stopping us from working together now? Answer is to many groups following their own god and religious practices and thinking they know what their god wants,which is different from others gods.If you rely on your god you then depend on it.That dependency causes your inaction.No action equals what you see today.
    I do not think the world is in that bad a shape although there are a few things we would both like to change.

    You are basically correct though. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

    Regards
    DL

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