We need religion! (A better one.)

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I wont indiscriminately squish a bug, but I still enjoy a good steak now and again. I suppose that if I can't eat it, I wont kill it. That's about as far as my conscience will carry me. Oh, I'm going to hell.

Well that's nature aslong as you kill things in blessed ways and dont consume the blood it's fine I wont teach you not to eat meat. I enjoy the taste of some meat, one of my favorite dishes Is a meat dish but I just don't eat it.

Killing something yourself and then eating it is better than buying dead non kosher meats, Not killing small bugs is a very noble quality and shows control and ability to not abuse power.

A man who squishes a bug is a man who would squish a nation if he was General.

Peace.

[lightgigantic]

I've now realized that we can't fix the world until the current religions step aside or join us, because the theist is not interested necessarily in fixing the world. Their whole focus is on the plan of their god which is to build the kingdom and bring others to their god and let god do the fixing of the people. IT'S NOT WORKING!!! You've had how many years??? Give it a rest!

I wasn't aware that the world required fixing.

It seems to do a perfect job of delivering us a kick square in the behind every time we go off the rails

We need to adopt sound philosophy and spirituality to take the place of god. Religion would benefit humanity in this capacity to promote morality and thinking. The belief in god is getting in the way!

Also I was not aware that god is impeding morality either

Don't wait for god to fail you or the ones you love. Act now. God fails all. It probably doesn't exist, but don't let that doubt stop you from moving forward and making a change.

Even if one waits the natural term of your existence, I can guarantee that you will fail them

Do you think you would feel or do you feel incomplete without god? All you need is your brothers and sisters. And your brothers and sisters just need to accept your needy friend. If every person swore fealty to each other, that would be billions to help the one person...and so on. This can't happen without teaching our children the path. I am suggesting a reformation of religion and governments and it has to start with teaching our children a better way.

lol
didn't they try that in the sixties?

[jayleew]

I wasn't aware that the world required fixing.

It seems to do a perfect job of delivering us a kick square in the behind every time we go off the rails

Also I was not aware that god is impeding morality either

Do you take every word so literally? Substitute the word, "World" with "people". That is what I meant, if you would just read the context. Are you trolling or something?

The belief in the god and it's plan for salvation impedes real change. The reason is because god is supposed to do the work that god says man cannot do. So, god sits on his ass, and its followers follow suit and plead "god's timing, not ours." What kind of god takes over 4000 years? An omnipotent and omniscient god should be able to complete its work in a few days at most...or at least seven. Without getting into the semantics of how much time a day represents in the scriptures, the point is he's had his chance. God is either dead, doesn't exist, or doesn't care.

Everything happens for a reason, but it has nothing to do with god. If I merely talked to myself instead of praying, I would get the same outcome and it would be always good with a positive attitude. Always, theists pray for things and they sometimes see it fulfilled and sometimes not and sometimes see what they didn't realize they actually needed. They praise god no matter the outcome. This is nothing more than positive thinking, and as such I champion, that it is a waste of time in itself. There's power in positive thinking, but it isn't fully harnessed until you get off your ass and work towards your goal. Do you want god to save that troubled teen you know? Don't leave it in god's hands, you do it. You might fail on your own, so get help yourself to help the person. Or, just try yourself, or don't try at all and perhaps it will work itself out. Play the odds, but defaulting to the power of god is 50/50 chance of success. Or, 100% chance with positive thinking.

It doesn't matter, prayer or not, the odds are the odds and positive thinking always makes it appear to be 100%.

[lightgigantic]

Do you take every word so literally? Substitute the word, "World" with "people". That is what I meant, if you would just read the context. Are you trolling or something?


The belief in the god and it's plan for salvation impedes real change. The reason is because god is supposed to do the work that god says man cannot do. So, god sits on his ass, and its followers follow suit and plead "god's timing, not ours." What kind of god takes over 4000 years? An omnipotent and omniscient god should be able to complete its work in a few days at most...or at least seven. Without getting into the semantics of how much time a day represents in the scriptures, the point is he's had his chance. God is either dead, doesn't exist, or doesn't care.

once again, don't know what makes you think god's work is incomplete.

You have a bevy of living entities hell bent on being independent and you have a universe specifically created to house such fools.

This world is working fine ... much like a prison is working fine

Everything happens for a reason, but it has nothing to do with god. If I merely talked to myself instead of praying, I would get the same outcome and it would be always good with a positive attitude.

The problem is that you are like an ant.
Whatever benediction one can acquire from your mercy, it is of no significance

Whatever ideas you celebrate as superior by dint of their non-involvement with god, it doesn't really matter. Sooner or later the various diseases that are competing for superiority in your body will work out a victor and when you finally drop dead, that will be your surrender to god and the forces that designate the next chapter in your sojourn in illusion.

Like this, in could potentially go on for eternity, except for the fact that even the conditioned living entity has infinite reserves of ignorance

Always, theists pray for things and they sometimes see it fulfilled and sometimes not and sometimes see what they didn't realize they actually needed. They praise god no matter the outcome. This is nothing more than positive thinking, and as such I champion, that it is a waste of time in itself. There's power in positive thinking, but it isn't fully harnessed until you get off your ass and work towards your goal. Do you want god to save that troubled teen you know? Don't leave it in god's hands, you do it. You might fail on your own, so get help yourself to help the person.

a large portion of god's mercy lies in receiving the intelligence on how to act.

I don't know what half baked version of Christianity you previously adopted that taught spiritual perfection involves sitting on one's laurels, but if one leaves god out of one's thinking, its either a waste of time or a cause of even greater suffering

Or, just try yourself, or don't try at all and perhaps it will work itself out. Play the odds, but defaulting to the power of god is 50/50 chance of success. Or, 100% chance with positive thinking.

If one designates god to function like a gumball machine, one is not a theist. One is an idiot.

It doesn't matter, prayer or not, the odds are the odds and positive thinking always makes it appear to be 100%.

If one doesn't understand what qualifies as god's mercy, it doesn't matter how one is thinking

[Jan Ardena]

I've now realized that we can't fix the world until the current religions step aside or join us, because the theist is not interested necessarily in fixing the world. Their whole focus is on the plan of their god which is to build the kingdom and bring others to their god and let god do the fixing of the people. IT'S NOT WORKING!!! You've had how many years??? Give it a rest!

We need to adopt sound philosophy and spirituality to take the place of god. Religion would benefit humanity in this capacity to promote morality and thinking. The belief in god is getting in the way!

Don't wait for god to fail you or the ones you love. Act now. God fails all. It probably doesn't exist, but don't let that doubt stop you from moving forward and making a change.

Do you think you would feel or do you feel incomplete without god? All you need is your brothers and sisters. And your brothers and sisters just need to accept your needy friend. If every person swore fealty to each other, that would be billions to help the one person...and so on. This can't happen without teaching our children the path. I am suggesting a reformation of religion and governments and it has to start with teaching our children a better way.

Hi.
I'm convinced that you don't really know what you're talking about,
and that you don't have any real idea of the immenseness of the operation you propose.

Stalin comes to mind.

jan.

[NMSquirrel]

Hi.
I'm convinced that you don't really know what you're talking about,
and that you don't have any real idea of the immenseness of the operation you propose.

Stalin comes to mind.

jan.

Jan.

i have noticed that to change the world one must be the extreme,
if you pay attention to those who have changed the world, they tend to have an obsessive compulsive trait that contributes to their extremeness,to examine their lives reveals that one would not want to be them, but this does not invalidate their message..
if they were to be 'normal' no-one would listen to their message,it would go unheard.

[jayleew]

once again, don't know what makes you think god's work is incomplete.

You have a bevy of living entities hell bent on being independent and you have a universe specifically created to house such fools.

This world is working fine ... much like a prison is working fine

Now we're just going in circles. I know it appears to you that the world is working according to god's plan. You should, you're a theist. And that's why we as a world can't get anywhere. We can't change the world from a prison when we have folks like you. People have to want to change, much more they need a reason to. Theists have no reason to change when god is in control. It's a non-issue, so we're stuck.

I don't know what half baked version of Christianity you previously adopted that taught spiritual perfection involves sitting on one's laurels, but if one leaves god out of one's thinking, its either a waste of time or a cause of even greater suffering

Are you implying there is a fully baked version of Christianity? Is that why churches split so often?

For the Christian, God is always in the picture. That doesn't mean the Christian should attempt to do work that was not assigned by God. That is what is taught. Turn your worries over to Christ, God is in control, heap "coals" on the heads of your enemies, God saves, etc. God saves, you are just the messenger. That means you don't do the saving, just the praying.

If one designates god to function like a gumball machine, one is not a theist. One is an idiot.

A theist who designates god to function like a gumball machine is an idiot. An atheist who does the same is enlightened.

[jayleew]

Hi.
I'm convinced that you don't really know what you're talking about,
and that you don't have any real idea of the immenseness of the operation you propose.

Stalin comes to mind.

jan.

I would expect you should think I don't know what I'm talking about. If I sound foolish, then congratulations, you have the affirmation that you believe god's word. I do know the immenseness. It is so far fetched because of where we are now. We need to set smaller goals. We need to resolve the religion problem first, which is no walk in the park. It will take a long time, perhaps longer than the life of the planet to remove religion in its current state.

[Me-Ki-Gal]

I've now realized that we can't fix the world until the current religions step aside or join us, because the theist is not interested necessarily in fixing the world. Their whole focus is on the plan of their god which is to build the kingdom and bring others to their god and let god do the fixing of the people. IT'S NOT WORKING!!! You've had how many years??? Give it a rest!

We need to adopt sound philosophy and spirituality to take the place of god. Religion would benefit humanity in this capacity to promote morality and thinking. The belief in god is getting in the way!

Don't wait for god to fail you or the ones you love. Act now. God fails all. It probably doesn't exist, but don't let that doubt stop you from moving forward and making a change.

Do you think you would feel or do you feel incomplete without god? All you need is your brothers and sisters. And your brothers and sisters just need to accept your needy friend. If every person swore fealty to each other, that would be billions to help the one person...and so on. This can't happen without teaching our children the path. I am suggesting a reformation of religion and governments and it has to start with teaching our children a better way.

Come to the dark side . We have cookies . We have beer too. We will give you unconditional love too.

[Jan Ardena]

jayleew,

I would expect you should think I don't know what I'm talking about.

Why?

If I sound foolish, then congratulations, you have the affirmation that you believe god's word.

What does that mean?

I do know the immenseness. It is so far fetched because of where we are now. We need to set smaller goals. We need to resolve the religion problem first, which is no walk in the park. It will take a long time, perhaps longer than the life of the planet to remove religion in its current state.

There is no religion problem, unless you can show otherwise, there is only people problem. Nobody is unhappy because people are religious, unless they have something wrong with them.

You can't remove religion from the planet, so why waste time trying.
If religion is to be removed, it will not be done by the likes of you or I.

Why do you want to remove religion, and, theism, from the planet anyways?

jan.

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Well that's nature aslong as you kill things in blessed ways and dont consume the blood it's fine I wont teach you not to eat meat. I enjoy the taste of some meat, one of my favorite dishes Is a meat dish but I just don't eat it.

Killing something yourself and then eating it is better than buying dead non kosher meats, Not killing small bugs is a very noble quality and shows control and ability to not abuse power.

A man who squishes a bug is a man who would squish a nation if he was General.

Peace.

Chi I would never squish a nation. Stop talking about Me like that. It is not true. You get a big fat tick burrowing into your skin and come talk to Me about squishing bugs. Or if a moth starts drilling its way into your brain by way of your ear . I bet you will be pulling that sucker out all smashed up. You to could be a bug squishier under the right circumstance

[Jan Ardena]

Jan.

i have noticed that to change the world one must be the extreme,
if you pay attention to those who have changed the world, they tend to have an obsessive compulsive trait that contributes to their extremeness,to examine their lives reveals that one would not want to be them, but this does not invalidate their message..
if they were to be 'normal' no-one would listen to their message,it would go unheard.

I'm not interested in the advocation of mass genocide for the sake of ones belief, it's that simple. And that is what he is proposing.

When somebody says Stalin may have been an atheist but his actions weren't attributed to his atheism, remember this thread.

jan.

[wynn]

Like this, in could potentially go on for eternity, except for the fact that even the conditioned living entity has infinite reserves of ignorance

Aww, finally something infinite about us!

[wynn]

Why do you want to remove religion, and, theism, from the planet anyways?

Spidergoat posted a picture once, I can't find it, though, of a small child crying and giving the middle finger. That picture comes to mind here.


Religion is bad bad bad because if you do it right, it won't let you have the upper hand over others! That's what's wrong with it!

We want Stepford! We want Stepford! We want Stepford! Stepford! Stepford! Stepford!

[wynn]

Jainism looks like an interesting religion. Maybe we could contrive an offshoot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

Uh. Death by starvation. We're getting there fast already.

[spidergoat]

Picture of sad little girl giving the finger:

http://www.sciforums.com/picture.php...&pictureid=820

[jayleew]

There is no religion problem, unless you can show otherwise, there is only people problem. Nobody is unhappy because people are religious, unless they have something wrong with them.

No religion problem? Not only is it the leading cause of wars, but we can't change when we don't want to. And a lot of people (theists) don't want to. They are content with god's plan and why shouldn't they be? That is the problem with religion: it is a complacent position that does not lend itself to grow.

You can't remove religion from the planet, so why waste time trying.
If religion is to be removed, it will not be done by the likes of you or I.

The Queen told Columbus the very same words when he proposed sailing the Pacific. You only fail when you stop trying.

[Jan Ardena]

jayleew,

No religion problem? Not only is it the leading cause of wars,

Examples?

...but we can't change when we don't want to.

Elaborate please?

And a lot of people (theists) don't want to.
They are content with god's plan and why shouldn't they be?

Just for the record, I am a theist, and what you say makes no sense to me.
So what do "theists" regard as "God's plan" which makes them (in your opinion) resistant to change. I would like to discuss what you think is my condition, with you.

That is the problem with religion: it is a complacent position that does not lend itself to grow.

I'm not really interested in discussing religion in such a general manner. Please be more specific..


[

The Queen told Columbus the very same words when he proposed sailing the Pacific. You only fail when you stop trying.

Not the same thing.
Religion has not come into being, unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

jan.

[jayleew]

So what do "theists" regard as "God's plan" which makes them (in your opinion) resistant to change. I would like to discuss what you think is my condition, with you.

It's not my opinion, it is a fact.

Do you follow a god's plan? If you believe in a god and do, then naturally, you resist any other plan than god's if it conflicts with the god's. If you are willing to part away from god's plan, I would question your belief or faith that god's plan is best. If you have faith in god and call yourself a theist, then by definition, you have faith in god's plan. Faith should be unwavering. Do you have doubts? What is the point in continuing your belief if you have no faith?

Not the same thing.
Religion has not come into being, unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

jan.

Not the same thing yes, but it requires the same amount of perseverance, hope, and courage as it does to change the world by removing religion.

[lightgigantic]

Now we're just going in circles. I know it appears to you that the world is working according to god's plan. You should, you're a theist. And that's why we as a world can't get anywhere. We can't change the world from a prison when we have folks like you. People have to want to change, much more they need a reason to. Theists have no reason to change when god is in control. It's a non-issue, so we're stuck.

The bars of the prison are birth, death, old age and disease (at the hands of material desire - which translates as suffering caused by one's own mind and body, suffering caused by the bodies of other living entities and suffering caused by natural phenomena like extreme weather etc)

no amount of co-operative living is going to change that


The real question is why do we suffer in this world, which is kind of similar to the question why do inmates in a prison suffer.

Are you implying there is a fully baked version of Christianity?

yes
its not too hard to find more complete versions

Is that why churches split so often?

meh
Has there been an ideological camp that doesn't split, ever?

I mean its not like humanism is monolithic, is it?

Generally the trend is for a split to occur when a similar product set to be attained with less cost (ie a cheap shoddy product).

For the Christian, God is always in the picture. That doesn't mean the Christian should attempt to do work that was not assigned by God. That is what is taught. Turn your worries over to Christ, God is in control, heap "coals" on the heads of your enemies, God saves, etc. God saves, you are just the messenger. That means you don't do the saving, just the praying.

The problem is that the "work" you assign god is to establish this world as a place free from suffering. Given that its our desire (and even our requirement for an atmosphere to express such idiotic desire) that causes the suffering, you fail to recognize that a different sort of "work" is going on.

A theist who designates god to function like a gumball machine is an idiot. An atheist who does the same is enlightened.

Not at all

The only difference perhaps is that the atheists arguments are idiotic, since they have accepted an idiotic premise to start from.

Kind of like discrediting science as idiotic on the strength of phrenology