Why Socialism According To Einstein

Discussion in 'Politics' started by serenesam, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. serenesam Registered Senior Member

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    * Modern anthropology has taught us, through comparative investigation of so-called primitive cultures, that the social behavior of human beings may differ greatly, depending upon prevailing cultural patterns and the types of organisation which predominate in society. It is on this that those who are striving to improve the lot of man may ground their hopes: human beings are not condemned, because of their biological constitution, to annihilate each other or to be at the mercy of a cruel, self-inflicted fate.

    * The owner of the means of production is in a position to purchase the labor power of the worker. By using the means of production, the worker produces new goods which become the property of the capitalist. The essential point about this process is the relation between what the worker produces and what he is paid, both measured in terms of real value. In so far as the labor contract is free what the worker receives is determined not by the real value of the goods he produces, but by his minimum needs and by the capitalists' requirements for labor power in relation to the number of workers competing for jobs. It is important to understand that even in theory the payment of the worker is not determined by the value of his product.

    * I have now reached the point where I may indicate briefly what to me constitutes the essence of the crisis of our time. It concerns the relationship of the individual to society. The individual has become more conscious than ever of his dependence upon society. But he does not experience this dependence as a positive asset, as an organic tie, as a protective force, but rather as a threat to his natural rights, or even to his economic existence. Moreover, his position in society is such that the egotistical drives of his make-up are constantly being accentuated, while his social drives, which are by nature weaker, progressively deteriorate. All human beings, whatever their position in society, are suffering from this process of deterioration. Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.

    * The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor — not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules.

    * I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    * Nevertheless, it is necessary to remember that a planned economy is not yet socialism. A planned economy as such may be accompanied by the complete enslavement of the individual. The achievement of socialism requires the solution of some extremely difficult socio-political problems: how is it possible, in view of the far-reaching centralisation of political and economic power, to prevent bureaucracy from becoming all-powerful and overweening? How can the rights of the individual be protected and therewith a democratic counterweight to the power of bureaucracy be assured?

    * Clarity about the aims and problems of socialism is of greatest significance in our age of transition. Since, under present circumstances, free and unhindered discussion of these problems has come under a powerful taboo, I consider the foundation of this magazine to be an important public service.
    o Referring to the Monthly Review, in which the essay was published.

    Source: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    As the Russian people were starving to death under communism. As Stalin murdered 50 million people. I'd think that this point of view is highly skewed for he doesn't seem to understand what was happening in Russia then as well as communist China which also had millions of starving citizens and Mao murdered over 10 million of his citizens as well.
     
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  5. carlsongs Registered Member

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    Its the political and corrupt corporations that make capitalist an economical anarchy. Maybe the correct way is for the People to put Democracy back in place.
     
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  7. siphra Registered Senior Member

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    Democracy is mob rule, and an incredibly bad idea. Republics fine, but the last thing we need is more examples of bad leadership because the large group of 'the masses' were duped into voting a certain way.
     
  8. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Dead Einstein for Prez! What a smart fellow!
     
  9. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    So the entire point of this thread was to post quotes from Einstein about government?

    Here's one for ya:

    "I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy."

    Richard P. Feynman
     
  10. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Ben, please explain to me why economics,government and politics should not or cannot be approached scientifically? Our best critical thinkers and reasoners are scientists! I bet you would be quoting him left and right if you agreed w/ his analysis!
     
  11. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Hi quinn---

    We haven't met. I have a Ph.D. in theoretical physics (you can believe me or not). While I do not disagree with the statement that scientists tend to be better critical thinkers than other people, I am not so immodest as to believe that simply cutting and pasting quotes from famous scientists would do anything to bolster my position. If anything, it undermines it. If I can't construct my own arguments for or against something, I'm simply parroting somebody else.

    That tends to happen a lot here...
     
  12. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Ohhhh, ha I missed your point entirely might be because you are a theoretical physicist, or that I am Irish and always itching for a good fight! Gotta feeling though wouldn't be much of a fight now that I know your profession.

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  13. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Unless we're talking about physics, you;re probably giving me too much credit.

    But I could definitely mop the floor with you when it comes to drinking whiskey (or, whisky, as it were).
     
  14. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    I do love me some whiskey on occasion, but let me give you the advice that a leprechaun once told a (janitor in the making) man who made same outrageous claim," you're gonna need to hold on to that mop to clean up after yourself ."
     
  15. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    You only drop the E if it comes from scotland
     
  16. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    I think you just saw the word socialism, conflated it with communism, and dived for the post button without reading the post properly - its ok - you can tell uncle synth.
    Here's the bit you skimmed where he covers that:

    Remember he was writing at a time when people had a better understanding of the meaning of words like socialism, and knew there was a difference between communism (particularly the soviet flavour) and socialism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  17. serenesam Registered Senior Member

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    "I am absolutely convinced that no wealth in the world can help humanity forward, even in the hands of the most devoted worker in this cause. The example of great and pure characters is the only thing that can produce fine ideas and noble deeds. Money only appeals to selfishness and always tempts its owners irresistibly to abuse it." - Albert Einstein

    "We must attempt the impossible. I am convinced that if we continue to follow a social model that is entirely conditioned by money and power, and that takes so little account of true values such as love and altruism, future generations may have to face far worse problems and endure even more terrible forms of suffering." - The Dalai Lama.
     
  18. desi Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe we should ask Bobby Fisher what he thinks, or maybe Stephen Hawking? Sheesh, you guys buy into something because Einstein said so?
     
  19. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Einstein has a lot of credibility to me.

    Most people don't realize how proper socialism could be good because we have been conditioned in survival of the fittest market methods. It is like religion.
     
  20. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    true 'nuff

    It does however stand head and shoulders above what passes for critique and discussion these days:
    "I have no idea what socialism is but I've been told often enough that its bad bad that I'm darned well going to beleive it"
     
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

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    oh, politicians are so much better because they are politicans of course. they are so much wiser too.
     
  22. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Lol! Like I said earlier in this thread Dead Einstein for President!

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  23. serenesam Registered Senior Member

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    I still don't understand why people can't understand that tyranny can happen in any system because in any system, there will always be people trying to screw things up for other people. This is applicable to capitalism, socialism, communism, anarchosyndicalism, and any other new system or old system.
     

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