Hi all, 1. If God 'created' the world then who/what created God? 2. Why is it in the bible - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are English names and also Joseph and Mary. As most of the bible is centered around Jerusalum shouldn't they be middle-eastern names? 3. The bible first talks about the seven days and then goes on to the animals and adam and eve. Where were the dinosaurs? Could it be when they made up the bible they didn't know about dinosaurs so didn't include them? 4. If God will forgive us all then why does he punish the snake so badly for eternity by taking his arms and legs so he has to move on his stomach the rest of his life?. And the serpeant also spoke to Adam and eve, so why is it we can't interact with them now via language? What language was it that they interacted in?
You are gonna get pounded by the religious folk here. Watch your back and sleep with one eye open from now on. Are Athiests allowed to answer or are they directed to believe the illogical?
1. I don't belive in god. 2. I think that those were standard jewish names and didn't become common in the west until christianity became a major religion. But im not sure about this. 3. Don't believe in god. 4. Don't believe in god. Are you sure these were supposed to be questions for atheists? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
1. By being the God of everything, He would logically also be the creator of everything. It isn't neccesary that He would have to have been created himself. Remember that time didn't exist either, but because we look back or forward from where we are in time, we can only understand things chronologically. I think God just was. It isn't harder to believe than believing that the world just 'is', as atheists do (at least you believe you exist, don't you?). It takes an equal amount of imagination 2.Neutrino is right - those are anglicised Jewish or Hebrew names. I know for instance that John comes from Yo'channan, meaning "gift of God". I'm sure the rest are similar. 3.You're probably right. Remember when the first fossils were found? Neither do I, but it wasn't a popular hobby when the bible was written, I'm sure. For all we know some of the animals that were on the ark might be extinct now 4.God did punish man - by sending him out to work for a living and having to watch out for snakes while doing it. And the snake put himself above God's authority, so it was punished to be lower than all of God's creation (that sound fair to me). Anyway - Don't you think the snake is better off? I'm sure you really love your job... ;-) J
But by believing that God 'just was', is just as reasonable as saying the world 'just was' without him creating it. I just think the bible was a way to maintain order in the earlier years when authorities didn't exist. They could just say by doing this YOU WILL BURN IN HELL! Surely if God existed, then we would just let him deal with all the murderers, rapists and child moulesters of this world instead of intervening with free will? Funny how God hates homosexuals isn't it? Yet if he created everything then he must of created the foundations of homosexuality? And partly why people seek religion is fear. Fear of the unknown. You have accepted that God is real. And you will die just like the rest of us. I don't need God to accept the fact that I'm already a dead man and there is no afterlife. Personally I don't want there to be an afterlife, good or bad, heaven or hell. It would be just as bad as living a life of immortality in this realm. But just because I don't believe in him (and he has shown me no reason why) I shall burn in hell with the likes of murderers and homosexuals.
1. Not necessary. God created the rules of physics and such and he need not follow them. 2. Christians name their children after bible folk. Jews do it after OT folk. Moslems after Qu'ran folk. 3. There's a couple Christian theories on this. One is the whole Intelligent Design shite. Another is that dinosaurs aren't real, and the bones are of something else. I've even heard that dinosaur bones are the work of the devil. 4. God punished us horribly (according to Christians). We can't talk to the snake because the snake was Satan.
So because it isn't included in the bible then it is the work of the devil?. Religion shrouds peoples opinions and thoughts and turns you into puppets of the church. I say they arn't in because they had no idea they existed. If the snake was the satan then God created evil in essence. Gave him life and the ability to speak. So isn't God just as bad as the devil? The sole creater of Pain and suffering of billions of people. I mean everything has to go through the all mighty right?
"Time is a fiction" and other musings When I was twelve I asked my Lutheran pastor that question. I was told it was a question we don't ask. Any wonder why I'm not a Christian? Try this: Time is a fiction. I've just eliminated the need for something to create God; there are no beginnings and endings. I'm not saying it works according to the Biblical theology. But Time is a fiction is a philosophy I carry with me anyway, so to cast any sense of asserted reality in light of the idea--well, it makes things simple. Anyone's answer will be better than mine. Part of the answer, though, is that they're written in English. There's also San Mateo, San Marco, San Lucas, and San Juan. Anyone want to tell me the names of the gospels in Sami? Anyone? Anyone? (Really, I don't know. I just figured they'd be trippy variations.) However, being that I forget the actual root versions of all the names and am too lazy (high) to bother looking them up ... go with your gut. The dinosaur bones were just a big joke that the paleontologists haven't gotten yet. I've heard a number of theories on that, none of which are satisfactory. I like Pratchett and Gaiman's take on it, that the bones were a joke. But take your pick; most of the theories involve dinosaur-human coexistence. No answer I've heard yet, aside from the "joke" answer, holds up to scientific scrutiny. On the Serpent: That's one of my favorite questions. Put it another way: Will the Devil be redeemed? Of language: Maybe we lost the knowledge when we fell. Not being a Christian, I've never heard a satisfactory answer to that. However, one strong literary vein (from the fantastic, of course) suggests that humans actually knew the birdsongs and so forth until we stopped needing to in order to survive. Sort of an "Effervescing Elephant" thing. I have somewhere an angelic alphabet, and my copy of Doctor Dee and Edward Kelly might have some asserted vocabulary in it. But if that language exists at all, I doubt anyone has it right now. This seems to be the sticking point. Put it this way: two-thousand years have gone by, and nobody can figure out what the Devil is actually for. The Devil is a middleman, an evolution of a social idea. If you're up for some reading, I would recommend Elaine Pagels, The Origin of Satan. It should take care of almost any question you might have about the Devil. Well, fundamental question. Jeffrey Burton Russel also wrote several volumes on the Devil, but you'll have to raid secondhand shops to get them, most likely. It's fair enough to say that some theories legitimately hold the Devil to be the true redeemer. Christ died once. The Devil suffers daily. thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Debatable I'm not sure whether the snake of Eden was in fact the devil himself, or just a 'possessed animal'. I know some Charismatic Christians believe dinosaur bones were 'planted' by the devil to confuse people and make them believe the earth was created in less than a week. What they miss is that time didn't exist until later, and only in a written forms until much later. Anyway, that debate is missing the whole point - it's just an excuse to differ. On the evil topic. What use would it have to God if He created 'free will' but prevented people and angels from rebelling? He would be contradicting himself and 'a house divided in itself cannot stand'. Satan was free to do evil, people were free to choose. But both had to bear the consequences. The OT laws were there to sustain a nation in exile. You have to keep that in mind. They were ostracised by the current corrupt government. God is against coruption - especially within his people. The messiah (and that is not just a biblical prophesy) was sent to free them from oppression and corruption and being. Except it wasn't the revolution they expected it to be - and it still isn't. Now the laws are the intention - but the proof is in the action. Now anybody can follow God, and not just the Jews who were the original chosen people. They are still trying to follow the laws by the letter. PS. God doesn't hate homosexuals. That is atheist propaganda. Call me biased if you want - but who are more civilised: those who shout 'you hate them!' or those who say 'i love you'? Both can be true, but only one of them could lead to something productive (in anybody's eyes, not just Christians). One of the biggest challenges to any person is acceptance of things you don't understand. Christians are no exception. Actually, they are supposed to be unconditionally acceptant. If God says it's possible for anybody to be a Christian, then it should be possible for homosexuals as well. JR
Two cents on buggery It's a fine distinction. God hates homosexuality. Well, in the Old Testament. Of course, there is also debate about Sodom and Gamorrah. In that case, the argument is that God murdered a city for the sin of homosexuality. As for the New Testament? Depends on how you read the NT. 1 Corinthians 6.9 clearly states that homosexuals will be denied His Kingdom. But as the Catholic Church acknowledges, So it seems that God hates the sin, will deny the sinner the Kingdom of God, and yet creates homosexuals and subjects them to these temptations. It seems to me, then, that in an effort to create heterosexual, marital sanctity, the Lord is asking a homosexual person to cease being as the Lord has made them, at the stake of condemnation. I call it hate. But that's just me. thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
============================================== Desert Rat wrote: 1. If God 'created' the world then who/what created God? ============================================== If God created the world NOBODY created him. (How's that for diplomatic?) ============================================== Desert Rat wrote: 2. Why is it in the bible - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are English names and also Joseph and Mary. As most of the bible is centered around Jerusalum shouldn't they be middle-eastern names? ============================================== The Jewish form of the names of the Bible are: Matthew = Mattityahu Mark = Mark Luke = Luke John = Yochanan Joseph = Yosef Mary = Miryam Jesus = Yeshua ============================================== Desert Rat wrote: 3. The bible first talks about the seven days and then goes on to the animals and adam and eve. Where were the dinosaurs? Could it be when they made up the bible they didn't know about dinosaurs so didn't include them? ============================================== Of course that could be true, if you reject the Bible as the authoritative word of God. Christians have two theories. Either the Dinosaurs existed before Adam and were wiped out by an earlier global flood (predating Noah's flood), OR Dinosaurs existed well up into the ancient history of man (thus legends of Dragons, etc.) which means they too were on the Ark. Some Christians believe that the scientific dating methods are inaccurate, and that dinosaurs actually died off as a result of the diminished ozone layer. It's a long complicated theory, but that gives you a very basic overview. The true answer is no one knows for sure. Both sides weigh the evidence and formulate their opinions accordingly. ============================================== Desert Rat wrote: 4. If God will forgive us all then why does he punish the snake so badly for eternity by taking his arms and legs so he has to move on his stomach the rest of his life?. And the serpeant also spoke to Adam and eve, so why is it we can't interact with them now via language? What language was it that they interacted in? ============================================== Note that the serpent was being spoken through by Satan. It wasn't the serpent itself that was speaking. The serpent was punished as a reminder to humans of God's authority. The real answer is we can never be 100% sure why God punished the serpent this way. I don't pretend to know the mind of God. Hope this helps. -Mike
If moses put animals two by two of every kind on his tiny by todays standerds boat.. Would there really be enough room? I mean just pile two of every land dwelling modern day species say.. in a football field and your going to run out of room mighty fast. Then if it was dinosours as well..
Another flood predating Adam? Its not mentioned in Genesis. If Man and dinosaurs coexisted, why dont we find human skeletons or artefacts alongside dinosaur fossils? Do you take the Noah story literally??? Would you like to discuss the logistic implications? Scientific dating methods have some finite accuracy, but we are debating may orders of magnitude here; thousands of years compared to hundreds of millions. The basic and inescapable question is: Either we can trust our senses and the bible (Genesis at least) is basically a collection of ancient legends. Interesting and imprtant, perhaps, but legends nevertheless. Or else, Genesis is the Devine Truth, in which case physical laws are imaginary, and ALL science is a waste of time. There is no in-between any longer. You cannot bend present day science to fit within Genesis, and you cannot expand Genesis to encompass observational facts (using the word fact in the scientific sense) without shattering it. Hans
Maybe Maybe dinosaurs just simply became extinct - hey, who can argue with nature? And Hans, you're being deliberately obstinate. What senses are you talking about here? Common sense? Common sense also told people the earth was flat. Or the five senses, which I'm using right now, and I can only guess at what happened with Noah. Remember the 'world' spoken about in the Bible is probably the known world of that time. So it could have flooded completely and wiped away everything known. In such a case, Noah would have a)witnessed in God's power b)witnessed God's mercy and c)started repopulating the known world according to those beliefs. According to the story, he only survived because he believed in the first place (the rest of the people all made fun of him). literal possibility a)Genesis IS the divine truth and physical laws were created along with the rest of the universe scientific possibility b)Dimensional theory: there are more dimensions than humans would like to know about. for instance, because time contains reality, it also has a dimensional aspect. The universe was created before time (outside our own dimension), and out of space ("nothing") - a dimension we can't even imagine. My opinion: Nothing is a waste of time, because time concerns itself with nothing. What existed before time *could* have been a waste, but God gave it meaning and called it into existence. Wasting time is relative... but I'm no Einstein or Hawking, so I won't elaborate further.
Well, if sticking to your opinion is being obstinate, I plead guilty.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! However, I admit that I feel provoked by hard-core Creationists, and I thought I smelled a couple of'em here. And I've been trolling for those, but no takers, so I guess you're right, its time to call it a day. I'll not bring up the subject again, unprovoked that is, hehehe. Hans
