01-21-11, 08:45 PM #1
Is there revolutions in arab countries coming near?
after the tunisian revolution almost finished succecfully, and it will because people are protesting everyday to do everything they want, and people are following every political move that the new goverment that will be removed later, protestations in thousands accross the country to remove the RCD and all all it's members and tell them stay away! and to cutt all the old roots whatever it is.
that revolution (wich it wasn't protestations for food prices or unemployement, it was about removing ben ali and all the goverement, since it's first day)
anyway, also, protestations in jordan entered it's second week, about also removing the goverment, and also other social problems like food prices and unemployement, right after the protestations in tunisia entered it's second week, and when there was no protestations in jordan at that time, the jordan leader, kind, presedent or whatever you call him, said he will reduce food prices, more jobs, more money ,and etc etc... yes he was affraid, and now, protestations their are in it's second week, and i doubt that he would make the same mistake that ben ali did, wich is shooting people, that maked protestations effect faster.
egypte, protestations started by small groups, and on january 25, 50000 will protest about the same things, the facebook isnow boiling, and preparing to boom in egypte.
yeman: also protestations about the same things.
algeria: protestations happened, but not the same thing, they thought we were out because of food prices by then so that's what they did, but it didnt last much, but also they did have reduced prices, anyway, i can't know what will happen their next, because what happened in tunisia, was like a miracle, here's how it was, a guy burned himself, people went on protestations in sidi bouzid, fall ben ali, police shooted gas bombs, protestations spreaded, and spreaded, and spreaded, all people had the same cause, same thoughts, and the revolution, had no leader, so no one could kill that revolution, it was, people revolution, the presedent, started to fire some ministers, then, the country inner security minister, then, him, and there was about 80 dead person in all that, caused by the police violence, and the rioting people, were the mafias and slaves of ben ali, when ben ali ordered the army, the army general refused, and protected the people from police, in the first week protestations, libya, opened borders to tunisians to work, knowing that libya also have unemployement too, when ben all runned away,
01-21-11, 08:46 PM #2
ghadhafi, libya leader, said we shouldn't remove our presedent and blablabla, also, ghadafi, helped ben ali to go to malta and take he's plane from their, because he's plane pilot in tunisia, refused to transport him, and runned away, when the presedent went to that plane, it was with no pilot
01-21-11, 08:47 PM #3
it seems that the libyan leader, was affraid from similar reactions, in he's country
01-21-11, 08:50 PM #4
also lebanon, it seems that it removed all it's old goverment, and started a new one.
also in sudan, yes, in sudan, well, idk, but, by some politicians, it's expected to happen their too;, but it would be a blood bath, because there, people have weapons.
will Tunisia start a domino affect? will revolutions, start in other arab countries? this year? next year? or even later with 3 years or something? or some of the arab leaders will start to rethinkg about what they are doing and give more democracy and etc... to their people, so maybe they can keep the chairs and espace from justice? what do you think will happen next? it seems in jordan, even with all those prices reduces and promises to more jobs, protestations flamed
01-22-11, 05:15 AM #5
Sure there is. Once the US pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan the puppet governments left there will collapse in short order.
01-22-11, 06:38 AM #6
Not a chance.
01-23-11, 04:23 AM #7
Isn't this exactly what the USA initially said they wanted to have happen - a domino of democracies in the ME? The only thing left to do now is send in the sexy Arab ninja's for mopping up detail.
01-23-11, 12:32 PM #8
for example, why no one talked about tunisuia when it's revoiolution? and no one talked about
the dictator and he's crimes seriously, he's a friend for them, and even israeil was sad for the left of ben ali
oh pleas, u.s.a hates democracy in middle east, maybe little democracy, but not too much to become deveoloped and even rule the world, you can't be that naiive,
01-23-11, 08:04 PM #9
We needed to take control of one of Earth's largest oil deposits - is there something wrong with that?!?!? As Americans we use most of the world's oil - together with China we use almost ALL of Earth's oil. ChinAmerica needs that oil Shadow, so we can continue with humanities progress forward.
The oil is going to be America and China's one way or another - either by our printing 01010101 on a computer, a $1000 Fed Note with Obama's/Mao's picture on it or by direct control. Rest assured, one way or another, Earth's oil WILL eventually be in the hands of America and China.
I think you can clearly see it's all about freedom and democracy Shadow. ChinAmerica's freedom and democracy. But don't worry, there's not much oil left, give it another 20-30 years and we'll pull out.
By the way, is YouTube open to Tunisian's yet? There's some good Japanese anime on there all thanks to ChinAmercia and our new found source of OIL!
Last edited by Michael; 01-23-11 at 08:10 PM.
01-23-11, 08:31 PM #10
01-23-11, 08:32 PM #11
well, thank god we have no resources here, or you would be already here, actually i was surprised of that much money that we actualy have, well, the stolen one actually
yes youtube and all cencored sites are open, free speech
01-23-11, 08:47 PM #12
if we had oil here in tunisia, u.s.a. would be making thousands of meetings and helps and etc... to tunisia, till it sends armies here, and then start stealing resources, with keeping the unstable security :/
ok, here's a rul:e THERE ARE NO PEOPLE IN POLITICS THAT CARES FOR JUSTICE IN THE WORLD OR FRIENDSHIP OR HUMANITY OR SO ON, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE INTERESTS, ok?
hmm, let me think, for example, why do you think israeil is affraid from the tunisian revolution? because ben ali, was a very good allie to them, they are sad that he have been gone, and they are affraid from a coming tunisian presedent that consider israeil as an ennemy, and sence the new goverment would be parlimentary, and all people practice in it, also affraid from the revolution in other arab countries, means, the awakement of arab countries, because arab countries have massive potentials, yes, massive potentials, that keep being assasianted and killed by those dictators, besides no human rights, and those mafias who run the countries, corruption, torturing, etc.... and why would u.s.a want democracy in arab countries? so after all arab countries become democratic, there may be an arab league, means, even can reach to be a world power, not saying major, anyway, let's go on a smaller scale, just a democratic maghreb, and after democracy and rights and etc... it comes unions, since the strong will of maghrebians esspecially for union.
tunisia revolution may be the start of other revolution, well, notall would be like tunisia's exactly, wich was the first of it's kind in history because it have no leader in anyway, all people from all kinds to one goal; that revolution, brought back to the other arab people the will to live in democracy, and gave a blink of light to fight for their freedom, soem arab countries are now ijust a metter of time intill something happends, maybe jordan, maybe egypte, etc...
do you know what also democracy brings, freedom of speech, independent justice=less corrutpion, people rule them selves, (like in tunisia, the people are a light year ahead from that stupid goverment that still work like if we still in 1950 and treat people as fools and ignorants) and also, it brings economic growth, greta economic growth, economic growth= everything, would u.s.a. want that to happen? would u.s.a. want to lose it's puppets? and even maybe, alot of oil? would israeil, want the arab countries, to be strong and loose it's controll on them by loosing it's puppet, like it lost it's ben ali puppet?
back to your question, why don't arab kick u.s., means, why don't arabs, kick their dictators: they will, tunisia started it, and when it finishes, means in 6 monthes when the official goverment and parliement gets elected, other arab people would try to do a revolution wich they strated now, in jordan, it just started now like it started in tunisia, but their presdent or leader or whatever, have learned from ben ali, he never throw gas bombs, and he said he will make cheap prices more jobs and blabla, tryingto make people happyand forget about the democracy thing, even before protestations started in he's country, now if he shoots anyone in the protestations their, it will surely be a sucide for himself, and also, if he don't too, it's only a matter of time, till they go on bigger and bigger numbers in protestations and things start to get more seriously, that's, if he don't start democracy, many arab countries now, are time bombs.
do you know why no one could stop the tunisian revolution? nor israeil, nor u.s.a nor france could? because it's a people revolution, revolution for freedom, with no leader, if it had a leader, i bet they wil certenly try to stop it in all ways, because that way, tunisia may be at risk to be lost from their hands, and loose their controll on it, and also, the success of this revolution, may also start other time bombs to count down, many arab leaders are now terrified, yes, terrified
now your saying that u.s.a want democracy and etc... for us, we don't any any one to help us,here, we never waited for any country to help, it's a personnal thing, our problems, are for our selves, well, look what happened to iraq, u.s.a used the situation of the protestations that could be a revolution, and with all that massive oil contities for the country it can be a big threat to u.s.a, anyway, u.s.a and other western powers, uses the situation, to rob the country, everything, historic artifacts, oil, other resouces, people soels :/
Last edited by Shadow1; 01-23-11 at 08:56 PM.
01-23-11, 09:21 PM #13
Nevertheless, minus a world-wide economic melt down (something I want to see happen) the USA will continue to secure ME oil and China will continue to finance said security. That said, I don't think the ChinAmerica cares about whether countries in the ME have Democracy or not. Just look at Iran - and they're "democratic".
01-23-11, 09:36 PM #14
01-24-11, 03:00 AM #15wich it wasn't protestations for food prices or unemployement, it was about removing ben ali and all the goverement, since it's first day
Removing Ben Ali will not make any difference to Tunisia unless the new government can change the economic policies set for them by the IMF
In September 2010, an understanding was reached between Tunis and the IMF, which recommended the removal of remaining subsidies as a means to achieving fiscal balance:
Fiscal prudence remains an overarching priority for the Tunisian authorities, who also see the need for maintaining a supportive fiscal policy in 2010 in the current international environment. Efforts in the last decade to bring down the public debt ratio significantly should not be jeopardized by a too lax fiscal policy. The authorities are committed to firmly control current expenditure, including subsidies,... IMF Tunisia: 2010 Article IV Consultation - Staff Report; Public Information Notice on the Executive Board Discussion; and Statement by the Executive Director for Tunisia http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/...10/cr10282.pdf
It is worth noting that the IMF's insistence on fiscal austerity and the removal of subsidies coincided chronologically with a renewed upsurge in staple food prices on the London, New York and Chicago commodity exchanges. These price hikes are in large part the result of speculative trade by major financial and corporate agribusiness interests.
These hikes in food prices, which are the result of outright manipulation (rather than scarcity) have served to impoverish people Worldwide. The surge in food prices constitutes a new phase of the process of global impoverishment.
"The media has casually misled public opinion on the causes of these price hikes, focusing almost exclusively on issues of costs of production, climate and other factors which result in reduced supply and which might contribute to boosting the price of food staples. While these factors may come into play, they are of limited relevance in explaining the impressive and dramatic surge in commodity prices.
Spiralling food prices are in large part the result of market manipulation. They are largely attributable to speculative trade on the commodity markets. Grain prices are boosted artificially by large scale speculative operations on the New York and Chicago mercantile exchanges. ...
Speculative trade in wheat, rice or corn, can occur without the occurrence of real commodity transactions. The institutions speculating in the grain market are not necessarily involved in the actual selling or delivery of grain.
The transactions may use commodity index funds which are bets on the general upward or downward movement of commodity prices. A "put option" is a bet that the price will go down, a "call option" is a bet that the price will go up. Through concerted manipulation, institutional traders and financial institutions make the price go up and then place their bets on an upward movement in the price of a particular commodity.
Speculation generates market volatility. In turn, the resulting instability encourages further speculative activity.
Profits are made when the price goes up. Conversely, if the speculator is short-selling the market, money will be made when the price collapses.
This recent speculative surge in food prices has been conducive to a Worldwide process of famine formation on an unprecedented scale." (Michel Chossudovsky, Global Famine, Global Research, May 2, 2008, http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8877)
From 2006 to 2008, there was a dramatic surge in the prices of all major food staples including rice, wheat and corn. The price of rice tripled over a five year period, from approximately 600$ a ton in 2003 to more than 1800$ a ton in May 2008.
(Michel Chossudovsky, http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=9191, For further details, see Michel Chossudovsky, Chapter 7 Global Poverty and the Economic Crisis in Michel Chossudovsky and Andrew Gavin Marshall, editors, The Global Economic Crisis, The Great Depression of the XXI Century, Global Research, Montreal 2010, http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20425 )
The recent surge in the price of grain staples is characterized by a 32 percent jump in the FAO's composite food price index recorded in the second half of 2010.
"Soaring prices of sugar, grain and oilseed drove world food prices to a record in December, surpassing the levels of 2008 when the cost of food sparked riots around the World, and prompting warnings of prices being in "danger territory".
An index compiled monthly by the United Nations surpassed its previous monthly high – June 2008 – in December to reach the highest level since records began in 1990. Published by the Rome-based Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), the index tracks the prices of a basket of cereals, oilseeds, dairy, meat and sugar, and has risen for six consecutive months." (Jill Treanor, World food prices enter 'danger territory' to reach record high, The Guardian, January 5, 2011)
Bitter irony: Against a background of rising food prices, the IMF recommends the removal of the subsidies with a view to reaching the goal of fiscal austerity.
Manipulating the Data on Poverty and Unemployment
An atmosphere of social despair prevails, people's lives are destroyed.
While, the protest movement in Tunisia is visibly the direct result of a process mass impoverishment, the World Bank contends that the levels of poverty have been reduced as a result of the free market reforms adopted by the Ben Ali government.
According to the World Bank's country report, the Tunisian government (with the support of the Bretton Woods institutions) was instrumental in reducing the levels of poverty to 7 percent (substantially lower than that recorded in the US and the EU).
Tunisia has made remarkable progress on equitable growth, fighting poverty and achieving good social indicators. It has sustained an average 5 percent growth rate over the past 20 years with a steady increase in per capita income and a corresponding increase in the welfare of its population that is underscored by a poverty level of 7% that is amongst the lowest in the region.
The steady increase in per capita income has been the main engine for poverty reduction. ... Rural roads have been particularly important in helping the rural poor connect to urban markets and services. Housing programs improved the living conditions of the poor and also freed up income and savings to spend on food and non-food items with resulting positive impacts on poverty alleviation. Food subsidies, which have been targeted to the poor, albeit not optimally, have also helped the urban poor. (World Bank Tunisia - Country Brief)
These poverty figures, not to mention the underlying economic and social "analysis", are outright fabrications. They present the free market as the engine of poverty alleviation. The World Bank's analytical framework is used to justify a process of "economic repression", which has been applied Worldwide in more than 150 developing countries.
With a mere 7 percent of the population living in poverty (as suggested by the World Bank "estimate") and 93 percent of the population meeting basic needs in terms of food, housing, health and education, there would be no social crisis in Tunisia.
The World Bank is actively involved in cooking the data and distorting the social plight of the Tunisian population. The official rate of unemployment is 14 percent, the actual level of unemployment is much higher. Recorded youth unemployment is of the order of 30 percent. Social services, including health and education have collapsed under the brunt of the IMF-World Bank economic austerity measures.
Tunisia and the World
What is happening in Tunisia is part of a global economic process which destroys people's lives through the deliberate manipulation of market forces.
More generally, "the harsh economic and social realities underlying IMF intervention are soaring food prices, local-level famines, massive lay-offs of urban workers and civil servants and the destruction of social programs. Internal purchasing power has collapsed, health clinics and schools have been closed down, hundreds of millions of children have been denied the right to primary education." (Michel Chossudovsky, Global Famine, op cit.)
01-24-11, 03:47 AM #16
I hear China lent more money to poor, mismanaged, countries last year than the World Bank - it will be very interesting to say the least ....when these loans come due.
China banks lend more than World Bank
Then again, I also read the World Bank was nearly bankrupt - maybe China can lend them some money
Last edited by Michael; 01-24-11 at 03:58 AM.
01-24-11, 07:06 AM #17
anyway, i didnt meant a country with no goverment, i was talking about the revolution, and the presidentioal goverment, wan't be allowed anyore, the new goverment will be a parlimentary goverment.
Last edited by Shadow1; 01-24-11 at 12:51 PM.
01-24-11, 07:11 AM #18
p.s.: poor people here, are not like africa anyway, they have a house, and, well, they can get food, but, with hard work, and yes that can be also a reason, but am not saying that also had an effect, i mean, what maked that guy burn himself, is, that, and whjat maked people go all protesting fall ben ali, is also that guy that burned himself, because of the injustice, and that, maked people, in a magical way, all go and protest about the corruption, an tc etc... and fall ben ali, even when ben ali gave us full free expression and less prices and etc.. people didnt stop protesting fall ben ali
and we refuse to call it the jasmin revolution or the jasmin protestations of whatever, it's the free people revolution
and what that? less poverty because of ben ali? huh? i think they meant, more corruption and stealing money by ben ali and he's wife and their two families, hmm, weird
and like if it was us who were rioting and etc... the rioters, are the small mafias of ben ali, and he's wife, that are kept for times like this, to make security distrubings and etc... to make people call for ben ali to come back, but didnt work it seems, on the contrary, people formed neighborhood committees, military can't hold all the security on it's own, it can't watch all streets, anyway, now security is back, and, we'll be back to school this friday, and i think there will be more protestations, well, maybe
Last edited by Shadow1; 01-24-11 at 07:21 AM.
01-24-11, 07:12 AM #19
01-24-11, 08:23 PM #20
I wonder why that is.
Does China really want to control these nation's economy's? Perhaps, but how are they going to do that? They don't even own a single aircraft carrier, they don't have the ability to project force anywhere outside of Asia, etc.... So, could it be that maybe they just want to invest in these nations in a manner whereby the loan ensures money spent is met by local responsibility? Let's face it, loans are simply a way to ensure obligations are "felt" and agreements are adhered to. If these debtor nations don't pay, maybe China will call on the USA Police force to bring about Justice.
Who are Tunisian's going to borrow money from to try and get their economy back in order? If Tunisian's are going to use production and utilize International trade to get their economy going - How much money are you going to pay to the USA for developing these systems and ensure international trade is possible? How much is access to the USA world dominated trading community worth to you?
Last edited by Michael; 01-24-11 at 08:29 PM.
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