Debating Theists.... So Impossible

As an athiest I love debating my beliefs in hopes of gaining even a bit of new knowledge. But one thing I've noticed about debating with theists, is it's a never ending debate... Simply because they do not incorperate logic in to the debate... And it seems that is the foundation debating is founded on... Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or comments on this.

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You're a little late

Unfortunately, Notme, you're a little late on that one. We just went through a couple of months of that very debate, and, unfortunately, atheism didn't fare much better.

In what way do you find logic absent from the debate?

At Sciforums, we saw the assertions that morality is what each person decides, that reality is what each person decides, that the purpose of all life is whatever each person decides, and that God is what an atheist says it is in order to debunk it.

It wasn't a pretty period for any of us, so please excuse us if we're not rushing to cover old ground. Any specific aspect of debate you could pull out would be helpful in finding a more effective answer to offer you.

thanx much,
Tiassa

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PS--Here's a search of topics related to atheism and atheists. These are, obviously, easier to pick out than those involving theism specifically. I mean, I suppose I could run a search for a wildcard attached to the term "God", but that would be a huge list. Since atheism pertains directly to theism, you'll find much about theism, atheism, and God in those debates, whereas searching for "God" would land you with a thousand posts containing the word "goddamn".

 

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Confronting Childishness ... So Tedious

I've been an atheist for some 4 decades. I've had more than a few discussions with fools, and I've had formidable debates with some remarkably good people - good both intellectually and personally. My comment would be:

• The 'logic' inherent in such childish generalizations is faulty, and ad hominem is a pretty poor foundation for a thread.

 

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Bring it on

What you wanna debate? You shouldn't generalize.

 

This is notme2000, just on someone else's account. If you want to have an intelligent debate go to the religion/Religion is a pop-culture thread.

 

2 simple points

Hey there, Notme, Empty Dragon, whomever ... 2 simple points:

• Make your debate here or shut the hell up.
• You might want to list all the ID's you post under so we know who we're talking to.

I mean, why are atheists such cowards when it comes to backing up their rhetoric? Hiding behind second ID's, trying to move the debate away to another topic ... what is it about atheism that just saps a person's courage and intellect like that?

(See? Even I can generalize inappropriately. What is the problem with having an intelligent debate here in this topic, aside from the puerile topic post and the idiot trying to start a goose-chase by posting under multiple ID's?)

Question: Is it that our topic poster is unable to figure out how to sign out someone else's account and sign itself into Sciforums as itself? Or is it just that our topic poster is unwilling?

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,
Tiassa

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kiss my ass, i do what i want.
the end

 

p.s. Empty Dragon is someone else, but I happened to be at his house so I used his account. So there.

 

Oooh ...

Is that what you call "intelligent" debate, Notme or Empty Dragon or whoever you decide to be next?

A piece of advice for the future: If you're too scared to have the debate, perhaps you shouldn't start the topic.

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,
Tiassa

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Why is it that these pathetic, peurile, peckerheads take so much pride in advertising the fact?

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Look, I'm here to have intelligent conversations. You people want to rub your egos, be my guest, but I don't want to witness it. I did not mean to offend or generalize in this thread, but that's how it turned out, so I gave up on the thread. And, no, I was not willing to switch accounts, is that ok with everyone? Why do you people have to ruin such a good site? I don't see any need for insults on a site like this? My kiss my ass remark was me realizing this thread, or the people in it, are not worth my time... With some exceptions of course. Just leave me alone, ok? Geeze.

 

You Just Don't Get It -- Grow Up

That is less than apparent.

It's called cognitive disconnect ...

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Debating theists is kinda like trying to fight a drunk idiot using only orthodox boxing rules. You fight by the rules, but the other guy doesn't. And what's more, he's too stupid and drunk to know he's defeated if he is, so he keeps on going. Impossible, just conclude that theists are beyond repair and have pity and mercy on them.

 

All's fair in love and war

Does that mean that atheists have smoked enough crack to think there are rules to fighting?

Or does that mean that atheists can only fight if they fight according to rules?

Like those atheists who wanted to establish their own versions of God in order to fight against it (old man in the sky, beard, judgment, &c.) ... would they assert that boxing is the only way to fight?

thanx,
Tiassa

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how cool
a debate about a debate
new heights of boredom have ............

 

"You people want to rub your egos, be my guest, but I don't want to witness it."

Woh, woh, woh. Everyone here is rubbing their egos eh? This from the guy who started a thread to say; 'ya know, theists are so dumb! they can't debate!'

 

Tyler: Touchee..... lol

 

Tiassa, I have to agree with Zero, however this only applies to about 99.9% of theists, occasionally there is a smart one such as you although I must say you sometimes do stretch things to make it sound like theism has won an arguement that hasn't even happened.

 

Well, I hear you ... but ...

Why thank you.

Nope ... I'm waiting for the atheists to catch up so we can have that argument.

The thing is that atheists need to realize: if you challenge one of the many stupid people, you freeze the issue, and make it a focal point. Human nature being what it is, that's a horrible point for someone to make a stand on pride. But many religious people do.

Watch the various Christian wars get out of hand. Christians misrepresent Christians, the opposition lashes back, nailing all of Christianity, and suddenly Christians who weren't paying attention in the first place and may not actually support the issue at hand are in the fight because they feel some public manifestation has lashed out at them. Practical example? OCA goes after gays, community responds with frustration over Christian intrusion into people's lives (press, medicine, religious freedom itself) ... and suddenly thousands of Christians who wouldn't have given the OCA the time of day are onboard and arguing a very petty, very stupid issue that may become a fairly defining moment for them.

One of the saddest things I see in atheism is that atheists tend to miss a certain idea that religious people are in on. Now, whether those religious people are in on it correctly is its own issue. But ...

Is it possible for an atheist to deal with a religious person in any terms other than religion? It would seem so. For instance, I generally push people away from religions; I cannot recall actively pushing anyone toward one. Well, maybe a couple of reckless Satanic advocacies a few years back, and maybe a couple of excitable moments as a witch. But I'm not about to tell someone to pray about it and leave the situation at that. Such a resolution is irresponsible and without compassion toward legitimate human needs. Where God comes into it, I take it out of that context. When all is said and done, what I do with those ideas pertaining to God will have a permanent effect on how that individual views God.

If it came right down to it, I could destroy people's confidence in their religion faster than any atheist can. Why? Because in addition to whining about religion for a good portion of my life, I've learned how to observe religion as a functional principle in people's lives. That is, I know what works better than an atheist. I know how to manipulate religious ideas better than an atheist. And I can get better functional results in "converting" someone away from a religion than any atheist on the face of the planet.

Why? A few reasons, at least.

• I have no stake in disproving God. Therefore I can communicate on an equal term, not from an assumption of authority.

• I understand religious sentiment and psychology better. Simple rules of familiarity support such an assertion.

• I'm in on what atheists are not: the presumption of compassion.

This last point is the vital one. It's not a matter of supremacy to me; it's a matter of people's happiness and how they feel. If someone is legitimately happy and not harming others, I have no right to interfere in how they view the world. But if someone is harming others, I have an obligation to interfere. If someone is unhappy or harming themselves, it is a presumption of compassion that compels me to interfere. I do not accept unhappiness for myself, nor will I accept it in others. If that unhappiness is brought by the disease of ignorance, for instance, as is common among many religious believers, I should go forth to heal the disease with compassion. I should not work to reduce the sick, but to augment them.

Now admittedly many religious folk get the presumption of compassion all snarled up into something beyond recognition, but at least it's there. I'm not so sure about atheism, and the evidence for the legitimacy of that doubt comes from the seemingly eternal hostility atheists show religions.

Understand them, don't hate them. If you understand them they'll go away quicker. I don't get why nobody's figured that out. I mean, I know why the religious people haven't figured that out. But the atheists ... man, I don't know. It really seems that obvious.

In the meantime, if the atheist wallows in the superstitious shallows of the religion, what can he or she expect but the simplest, most superstitious, most ignorant and assumptive religion possible?

If 99.9% of theists are sick with it, then heal them. For God's sake, man ... er, I mean ....

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I mean, take a look at Notme2000 and Zero's characterizations. Take a look at the contempt that even other of our beloved Sciforums' atheists show religion. Great. We know you guys are atheists. Could you all try being useful with it, so to speak? It's getting a little hard when the broadminded theists trying to fix the situation have to shout to be heard over the voices of scorn and condemnation. Many of us know much about theistic idiocies, and probably even more than the atheists. But it's really quite hard to communicate with the narrowly religious when they spend their time worrying about the guy over there who's calling them stupid.

Understand: as an atheist, I found God to be too important; that is, for being an atheist, thinking about God took up an awful lot of my time.

Once I found a definition of God that my integrity required me to accept, everything got easier. God is considerably less important an issue.

Atheists simply need to get to know the religions they oppose better. They'll learn a tremendous lot about their declared enemy, and even more about human nature in general. I'm not saying anyone has to believe a word of what they're reading or hearing. But it would be helpful if atheists treated theistic ideas as something other than platforms upon which to be poseurs.

thanx much,
Tiassa

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Wow, Tiassa, you are a truly warped and twisted individual...