luminiferous aether - Is it natural?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by NO1, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. NO1 I Am DARKNESS Registered Senior Member

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    I did some reading about it. Seems very complicated stuff. A buddy asked if its real/natural? I dont know what he he means by this. Maybe someone can elaborate about its properties?
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wiki.
    It's not been shown to exist and the Michelson-Morley experiment provided good evidence against its existence.
    Therefore: real? - most likely not. Natural? - how natural can something be if it doesn't exist? Properties? - of a non-existent medium?

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  5. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The ether was suggested as an answer to the problem of how waves propagate through a vacuum. The absence of an ether wind, as objects such as the earth speed through space, showed that it didn't exist.

    Did they ever solve the original problem?
    I believe they are still not sure what space is, just that it's definitely not an ether.
     
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  7. NO1 I Am DARKNESS Registered Senior Member

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    OK. This is what I read late last night. However i need major elaboration on it. From what i can remember it is a subatomic particle of electrons and it has been studied. So if it is studied, does it make it a 'real' element? Im lost. please help: Quantum Aether Physics Moddel
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    19,252
    Hmm, it looks to be crank physics.
    Okay, so they feel that space-time needs renaming.
    And then the outrageous claims...
    And then the woo woo spiritual bit.

    Plus the links to
    Slightly "out there", to say the least.
     
  9. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

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    2,257
    Crank physics indeed.

    Thread moved to pseudoscience.
     
  10. NO1 I Am DARKNESS Registered Senior Member

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    'We have successfully unified all the forces.' You see this as crank? A false statement?

    So a new lexicon is not needed? As I see it, it has not been defined properly.

    You must start with a theory to prove something right?

    Is that their or your supposition? It being spiritual?

    give me time to catch up on those links. Euclid > Pythogoras
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    19,252
    More specifically the phrase "No other theory has ever come close to matching the scope and promise [of ours]" is standard crank claim.
    But yeah, anyone with a successful unification that really is successful would have been all over the media, not an internet site. Plus, of course, the usual woo woo claims of anti gravity and clean energy.

    Why dump a perfectly good (an understood) term to reuse a name that was discredited decades ago?
    If they truly did require new terminology "aether" is a singularly bad choice.

    You start with observation. Not sure what you're getting at here.

    The claim is that truth comes in two "flavours": what you feel to be true and what you can prove to be true. Physics, by definition, doesn't deal in emotions.
     
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    This pseudoscience physics looks very similar to real physics.
    Can't understand much of it.

    They suggest that the speed of light could be a quantum value.
    Do any real physicists say that?
     
  13. NO1 I Am DARKNESS Registered Senior Member

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    269
    Real physicists might state that it is Non-Euclidian, however there is no empirical evidence.
     
  14. Aether Wizard Registered Senior Member

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    50
    Aether Physics Model

    The properties of the Aether as explained in the Aether Physics Model are:
    1. It has quantum structure
    2. It is non-material reality (Electric, Magnetic, and Gravitational Fields)
    3. It is measurable,
    4. It is a quantum rotating magnetic field,
    5. It is the "substance" of space,
    6. Effects upon the Aether are observable (General Relativity, phonons, frame dragging, p-holes, Sagnac effect)
    7. It is the source of electric and magnetic charges,
    8. It is the container in which subatomic particles exist.
    The model was not previously discoverable because nobody thought to question whether the dimension of charge was properly notated in dimensional analysis (all charge should be squared relative to the dimension of mass). Further, nobody thought to quantify the magnetic charge as a unique dimension along with the electrostatic charge. These two types of charges are different in geometry and also have a reciprocal relationship between them.

    The Aether Physics Model uniquely presents a Unified Force Theory that is entirely expressed in terms of Newtonian type force laws.

    Although Western science shuns the Aether Physics Model because they incorrectly believe the Aether does not exist, the Aether Physics Model has been nominated for an Iranian science prize (by Iranian physicists). It is likely the Iranians are going to take the lead in understanding and developing the Aether Physics Model.
     
  15. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    6,702
    Dirac considered the relationship between magnetic and electric charges in the 30s.

    Demonstrate it can successfully derive the differential cross section for electron+positron -> muon + antimuon.

    You fail to provide any evidence therefore there is no reason to believe.

    And the nut Paul Dixon here has on his CV that he's been nominated for a Nobel Prize 3 times, even though such nominations were by himself for himself and he has no work of any kind related to physics published. Or Myron Evans who made up his own university and gave him and his pals professorships and honorary degrees in his 'pet theory'. Its easy to impress yourself, that's why there's peer review, you have to convince others too.
     
  16. Aether Wizard Registered Senior Member

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    Translation: "Here poochy poochy, jump through this hoop. When you are done, I'll have more for you to jump through until you get tired and complain, then we will ban you from the group."
    You failed to ask for any evidence, and therefore you didn't receive it. But I'll bet you don't want to hear it in the first place. You have already taken aim with your sight and are ready to pull the trigger.
    The old straw man argument gets them every time. I concede. Your excellent wisdom has made a fool of me and now I will cower into the corner while you stand valiantly upon your pedestal admiring yourself. And it wasn't even necessary for you to ask one single scientific question about the actual theory. You are amazing. :bravo:
     
  17. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,832
    Suppose the aether exists, and is 'responsible' for the finite speed of light so that: without a 'resistance' to the flow of light particles, they would have infinite velocity through a medium with zero resistance to the 'flow' of energy.

    So you must have, if a force is acting on light particles, something like \( F\;=\; \alpha c \), where the RHS has units of Newtons. So \( \alpha \) must have units kg/s
     
  18. Aether Wizard Registered Senior Member

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    You are setting up the parameters for the argument. Let's first examine the parameters.

    First, you talk about light having a speed. Technically, light is like a river and photons are like water molecules. The photons possess the speed of interest, not light. The "river" might change its course over time, but the flow of interest is the flow of photons.

    Second, you are proposing that photons (light particles) need an external force to maintain velocity. This would be true if photons are ballistic particles of objective matter. But the observations clearly show that light is neither concretely a particle nor a wave. It appears to be something different, but which behaves similarly to both. So is it really in the interest of good scientific investigation to propose a paradigm based upon the behavior of ballistic particles (or waves of particles)?

    What if a different paradigm is presented for consideration where photons are seen as a manifestation of angular momentum (neither a physical entity nor a particle, but capable of being treated as either)? Further, the Aether what if the Aether is presented as a non-particulate medium of quantum rotating magnetic fields? The photon could then be modeled as the transfer of angular momentum through the "surfaces" of the quantum rotating magnetic fields. The photons would be like expanding bubbles where the skin of the bubble (angular momentum) becomes continually thinner. Thus, the same photon could be viewed in several different locations at the same time.

    Furthermore, if the expanding bubble of angular momentum expanded with a geometry similar to the Compton function (a cardioid), the photon would be traveling through space and yet a portion of it would remain connected to its source.

    Cynthia Whitney provides the mathematics for such an expanding (traveling) photon. If these physics are correct, and this theory were properly pursued by engineers, it would be possible to build telescopes that could see all the way to the source of light without any distortion at all.

    As for your proposed paradigm, your are suggesting the Aether acts upon photon velocity as though photon velocity was something separate from the Aether. Have you considered whether photon velocity is a property of the Aether? That is, everything is limited by the speed of photons because the Aether itself oscillates at a frequency equal to the speed of photons? That is, the quantum Aether units have inherent frequency of \(1.236 \times {10^{20}}Hz\) at one Compton wavelength (\({\lambda _C}\)).

    If we look at Coulomb's constant with dimensional analysis, we find:
    \(\begin{array}{l} {k_C} = c \cdot Cd\frac{{{\mu _0}}}{{{\varepsilon _0}}} \\ c = 2.998 \times {10^8}\frac{m}{{sec}} \\ Cd = 2.112 \times {10^{ - 4}}siemens \\ {\mu _0} = 1.257 \times {10^{ - 6}}\frac{{kg \cdot m}}{{cou{l^2}}} \\ {\varepsilon _0} = 8.854 \times {10^{ - 12}}\frac{{se{c^2} \cdot cou{l^2}}}{{kg \cdot {m^3}}} \\ {k_C} = 8.988 \times {10^9}\frac{{kg \cdot {m^3}}}{{se{c^2} \cdot cou{l^2}}} \\ \end{array}\)

    Velocity is one of the components of Coulomb's constant, as are conductance, permeability, and permittivity. Analyzing Coulomb's constant is appropriate since it is the force mediator of the electrostatic charge in Coulomb's electrostatic force law.

    The Aether unit itself is proposed to quantify as the Coulomb's constant times a geometrical constant of \(16{\pi ^2}\).

    \({A_u} = {k_C} \cdot 16{\pi ^2}\)

    The dimensions of Coulomb's constant (and the Aether unit constant) are equal to magnetic field times frequency, which is a unit of rotating magnetic field. Naturally, the Aether constant relates to several other physically observed phenomena, such as the Casimir effect.

    Of greater interest is the conductance constant, which directly relates to the magnetic charge of the electron and proton.
     
  19. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    It's simple. It's not real physics. Just woo-woo pseudo-crap.
     
  20. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    6,702
    You claimed you have a unique unified theory. I want you to demonstrate as much. If you haven't got the work ready to present then you shouldn't be making those claims. If you don't want to jump through that particular hoop (the differential cross section one) then simply provide a full and detailed analysis and development of your 'theory'.

    If you can't then please explain why you're making claims you won't back up.

    I want evidence, I asked for a specific case which is pretty simple on the scale of things. Whenever I ask people for a demonstration their work can do as they claim I ask things which can be done with minimal knowledge of the mainstream. Things like the differential cross section of QED processes or the orbit of Mercury can be done with 4th year level physics or below. This isn't a difficult problem, on the scale of things.

    I asked, you refused to provide. And my comment was to demonstrate that Iranians giving prizes to themselves is hardly a sign its right. The important thing is to be able to convince others. I'm requesting you try to do so and you seem to be trying to avoid backing up your claims.
     
  21. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    Ooooooh, an "Institute"!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    How very impressive and believable. :thumbsup: I'm envisaging the spare bedroom converted into a home office.....


    Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
    Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
    Homer: Thank you, dear.
    Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
    Homer: Oh, how does it work?
    Lisa: It doesn't work.
    Homer: Uh-huh.
    Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
    Homer: Uh-huh.
    Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?

    [Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]

    Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
     
  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    12,738
    Interesting thread.
    I predict fireworks.
     
  23. Aether Wizard Registered Senior Member

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    The theory is quite developed and is too much to post in a simple message on this list, although, I did start to do so in a message, above. If you would like to read the paper on the Unified Force Theory, you'll have to wait until I make 20 posts to this foolish forum. I can't post links, yet. Or you can type the url in from this "unified dash force dash theory dot com."

    What you asked for was something of interest to you, which is not a part of the presented theory. Did anybody ask the same thing from Isaac Newton or Charles Coulomb? It should have been simple for them, too.

    If someone presents a theory for space flight, do you ignore their theory and ask if they can cure cancer? On the scale of things, curing cancer is easier than sending a rocket to the Moon.

    You didn't ask me for a demonstration of my work, so don't go there.

    Ask me for a cure for cancer, or how to build a microchip. Ask me for whatever you want, but if I ask you to actually review my work, will you listen? Will you look at what I am actually presenting? Or are you going to be like the many fools who are too lazy to investigate the actual theory being presented and just ask a plethora of unrelated questions?

    Having said that, half of my present work arose because people kept asking me to expand into other areas of physics. So I kept answering their questions and the theory kept developing. My analysis of magnetic moment, kinetic energy, Sagnac effect, Casimir effect, and General Relativity arose because people wanted to know how they fit into the Aether Physics Model. But did that interest them? No! Because they weren't interested in the first place. They were merely asking questions, which they had no interest at all in hearing the answers for. You are just the same. If you are truly interested in my work, you will read what I have already presented in my papers and books (and they are now available free online, so don't accuse me of trying to make millions from ideas).

    Again, you are off base. I am not Iranian. I am a thirteenth generation American of Scottish descent. My father is a retired high ranking official with the US DOD. You demonstrated nothing but your ignorance.

    Once again, you weren't even the slightest bit interested in my physics work. You just came off with guns fully loaded and ready to pull the trigger. As for me having to convince you or anybody else of what you choose not to believe, that is not my responsibility. You have a right to investigate my work, or ignore it. It is just as much your responsibility to listen as it is for me to talk.

    And fyi, I have been approached by the Iranians for the past two years about my physics work. They have been taking a sincere interest in it and asking good questions. They are also satisfied with my answers.

    I just received this morning an email inviting me to Iran to present my work to the prize committee, with all expenses paid (full accommodations, plane fare, and spending money). You think I'm bullshitting you, but I'm not. I have been in contact with my local congressman over the years and he has presented my theory to the House Science Committee. Apparently, they have the same arrogant and ignorant view of Aether theories that you do. Even DARPA and other government science agencies have blown off my work. I just keep shaking my head in disbelief.

    If you and the rest of the Western mainstream establishment do not get off your duffs, you are going to pass scientific superiority to Iran, which they will rightfully deserve. Despite what you and I might think about Iranian policies, they now have a working nuclear power plant and the US and Israel can only cower in the corner. The Iranians are clearly a lot smarter than what they are credited for.
     

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