Who is the most spiritually advanced member of Sciforums?

**Buddha12** · 05-31-12, 01:30 PM

Does a man have to live morally to live spiritually

No, he just must do the best he/she can in their life to be the best they can be for no one is without problems.

keith1 · 05-31-12, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Knowledge91

Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality; an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the "deepest values and meanings by which people live."
-Wiki

I'm interested in seeing the self proclaimed spiritual leaders on Sciforums respond to this.

(Not this, but you can

)Does a man have to live morally to live spiritually?

A garden fence, finer then nano in gauge, that can be only passed by the most naked of one's bared essence, needs no sentry for the contently-focused berry groomers and grazers that pass there.

**Kittamaru** · 05-31-12, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by The Marquis

Well, to be fair, Kittimaru, it was actually Bells who used an "appeal to emotion" in her preceeding post regarding her father, yet you chose not to censure her. So you are indeed to be accused of bias.
I would also add that I think Bells' skin is a little thicker than you might think; in some cases, perhaps intervention may be warranted, but in others it really isn't. This is not a court of law, and as such perhaps a little judgment should be exercised on occasion as to who might welcome intervention and who might not.

To add to that, I'm more than a little tired of this "logical fallacies" thing. As I have mentioned above, it was actually Bells who began it; and yet her post made sense and reinforced a point. While the list of logical fallacies might be valid in many cases, they are surely more a guide than the solid set of rules most seem to take them to be.

I, certainly, do not.
It becomes far too easy to dismiss another's argument when it should instead be taken in and considered, simply because it is perceived to be a logical fallacy. Particularly in the case of an appeal to emotion. The list of logical fallacies is far too often used a little more than a tool enabling one to dismiss anything they don't particularly like out of hand... which is rather ironic, considering they were designed to prevent that very kind of behaviour to begin with.

What Bells actually did was to enhance the impact of a point through the use of emotional appeal.

One of our greatest assets is our imagination.

Lawyers use it arguing a case, and without it there are a great many defendants who might not be free today, or at least would have been enduring far tougher sentences. I'll save the thought that the pendulum in the case of sentencing might actually swing too far in the other direction for another day. Politics thrives on it. The Americans, in particular, have made an art form of promting the emotional appeal of a presidential candidate. I'm not even going to begin on political commentary and journalism.

There are many examples of emotional reasoning which, should we deprive the world of it, would make for a far more boring planet than the one we have.

The only question is balance. Judgement. Don't use the excuse of a logical fallacy so dismissively.
It's boring.

In my defense, the fallacy was just the icing on the cake - it was the blatant attack on common human decency that irritated me most, especially having watched my own grandfather pass away not three years ago... the one man in my life that was a true father to me... and the one family member who actually treated me like a decent human being. Nobody should be forced to watch anyone else die... and to say it doesn't change you is utter nonsense.

And as you said - sometimes the use of emotion can add emphasis to a point. When it alone is the entire basis of your argument, however, it is a simple fallacy

keith1 · 05-31-12, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Knowledge91

Does a man have to live morally to live spiritually?

In a spiritual context, "moral" and "immoral" may be considered two excessive behavioral conditions. These collective behaviors may be retained to the spirit as "extra irremovable weight"-- adding to a higher level of eternal "workload" to the individual. Understanding these conditions may be a more efficient deterrent to entering unwanted behavior states.

**Stoniphi** · 06-01-12, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

...Nobody should be forced to watch anyone else die... and to say it doesn't change you is utter nonsense...

Just went through that Feb of last year with my old mom in the nursing home. She just quit eating, drinking, taking her meds, pulled out the oxygen tubes from her nose. I had to talk to her about what would happen because that. My son was with me, it was very hard, depressing and no fun whatsoever. She died that evening. Yeah, that changes your' perspective on things, for sure.

**Buddha12** · 06-01-12, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru
...Nobody should be forced to watch anyone else die... and to say it doesn't change you is utter nonsense...

Being forced to watch and choosing to be there when they die because you love them and they love you is a whole other situation. You become much more aware and so do they when you are with them that they are loved.

keith1 · 06-01-12, 09:16 AM

Sentimental "last days" details are adjustable:

--Environment (home, nursing facility, nursing staff, non-family events, family events)
--Causes/treatment of pain
--Personal health/diet/mental health practice levels of "last year(s)"
--Level of relationship between family members.
--Preparation, rehearsal, dress rehearsal.

Personally, I like the end of Lord of the Rings "sailing off to new adventure" scenario.
Prepared, purposeful, bittersweet.
And the Annie Lennox song.

Or Amazing Grace with bagpipes.
Or Thus Sprach Zarathustra (Theme from 2001 Space Odyssey)
Or all three on a loop.

I have personally requested from my family:
--dumpster dump (if funds allow, upgrade to... "flaming dumpster")
--theme from Kelly's Heroes (Burning Bridges)
They thought that was funny.
Salty waters, tickled cheek, heart losing weight.

**~~Neverfly~~** · 06-01-12, 09:42 AM

Aww... I can't take it anymore.

C'mon you lot- Group hug!

C'mere Stoniphi, you big bald headed lurch, you.

So much love all of the sudden from such a negative thread.

Rock on.

**kx000** · 06-01-12, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stoniphi

Just went through that Feb of last year with my old mom in the nursing home. She just quit eating, drinking, taking her meds, pulled out the oxygen tubes from her nose. I had to talk to her about what would happen because that. My son was with me, it was very hard, depressing and no fun whatsoever. She died that evening. Yeah, that changes your' perspective on things, for sure.

Hey man, this is life. It was her time. I believe she passed to the other side. I wish you all the best my friend, may you be graced again by the joy of new life.

RIP.

**Kittamaru** · 06-01-12, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha12

Being forced to watch and choosing to be there when they die because you love them and they love you is a whole other situation. You become much more aware and so do they when you are with them that they are loved.

While this is true, it is also untrue... I did not "have" to be there to watch my grandfather pass, in the strictest sense (nobody was holding a gun to my head and forcing me to be there)... but where else should/could I have been? Emotionally and spiritually, there was no "choice" - I had to be there with him in his last moments, even though he was technically "braindead" (which I still disagree with as he would respond to us talking in subtle but visible ways)... but no, I HAD to be there.

**The Marquis** · 06-01-12, 01:50 PM

Oh, please.

**Kittamaru** · 06-01-12, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by The Marquis

Oh, please.

You contend that what I said is untrue?

keith1 · 06-02-12, 12:39 PM

It seems I have met the requirements of the OP.

Evidence:
(1) presented first-hand account of the dynamics of claimed advanced spirituality.
(2) demonstrated the strength of claimed faith in (1), with an added promise of a lie detector test.
(3) all other spiritual-dynamic members cannot repeat or match (1) & (2).
(4) all members who are not "spiritual", cannot repeat or match (1) & (2).

Conclusion:
Keith1 has shown exemplary spiritual depth and validity, and rightly claims the OP's mantle of "most spiritually advanced member of Sciforums".

**Aqueous Id** · 06-02-12, 12:54 PM

The most spiritually advanced member is the one who doesn't give a damn about the question.

keith1 · 06-02-12, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Aqueous Id

The most spiritually advanced member is the one who doesn't give a damn about the question.

The evidence that "the most spiritually advanced member is the one who doesn't give a damn about the question", doesn't apply to Keith1, who has made a rightful claim to that status, so would give a damn, even if it negated the claims of all atheists and all theists who were participating, or who were not aware of the OP, as well as those who don't give a damn.

**~~Neverfly~~** · 06-02-12, 01:05 PM

Now that Keith has claimed the prize... Can we have a thread on the most Evolutionarily Advanced member?

**Aqueous Id** · 06-02-12, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Now that Keith has claimed the prize... Can we have a thread on the most Evolutionarily Advanced member?

Noting that it took you only 2 minutes to arrive at that, you are placing eveyon else at a serious disadvantage.

Originally Posted by keith1

It seems I have met the requirements of the OP.

The check's in the mail, payable in Yap stone dollars.

Some may have their virtual money, but this is what others call transcendental money. More better. Spiritually that is.

**~~Neverfly~~** · 06-02-12, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Aqueous Id

Noting that it took you only 2 minutes to arrive at that, you are placing everyone else at a serious disadvantage.

That's nuthin'... You should see my other evolutionary advantage...

**Aqueous Id** · 06-02-12, 02:21 PM

I know, I have it too. Sometimes I think it's a curse. Yeah... everytime I'm trying to groove to my favorite music, my perfect pitch creeps in and all I see is all those notes, properly notated with articulation and accents and the whole 9 yards.

Speaking of 9 yards... oh yeah... perfect pitch. It matters.

I guess if we can't meet some arbitrary definition of "spiritual" we can at least remain relevant for being "spirited". I would even go so far as to say it takes soul.