Harry Potter Star Afshan Azad Attacked by Father, Brother in attempted Honor Killing

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by madanthonywayne, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Afshan Azad, famous for playing Padma Patil in the Harry Potter series, was nearly attacked by her father and brother in what appears to be an attempted honor killing.
    The father and brother of a British actress who starred in the more recent "Harry Potter" movies have been charged with threatening to kill the 22-year old actress, apparently in disapproval of her boyfriend.

    The actress, Afshan Azad, played Harry’s classmate Padma Patil in the popular series. Her father, Abdul Azad, 54, and her brother, Ashraf Azad, are accused of threatening her in May during a fight at her Manchester, England, home. The brother is also accused of assaulting her.

    Details of the alleged threats and assault weren't immediately clear, but prosecutors have said the Muslim men did not approve of her relationship with her Hindu boyfriend.

    The case has been adjourned until July 12, and both men were granted bail on condition that they do not contact Azad at her home.

    The potential role of religion in the case has raised questions about the men's motivation.

    “In traditional [Muslim] societies the family comes before the individual, and the woman represents the honor and purity of the family, so for a woman in the family to engage in a relationship that is taboo can be viewed as a violation of the family,” said Haroon Moghul the Executive Director of the Maydan Institute, a consulting firm that seeks to raise awareness of Muslims.

    “Also in more conservative circles of Hindu or Muslim families, people don’t date before they are married, and it can be a lot worse for the girl and she is the one who is blamed and punished by the father, uncle or elder brother.”

    Such cases can lead to what some people term “honor killings," though the term often is denounced in religious communities as a misnomer.

    “It is poorly named since there is no honor in killing a woman. What these crimes are about is controlling a woman and it is not something unique to just Muslim society,” Hussein Rashid, a visiting instructor at Hofstra University’s Department of Religion, told Fox411.com. “I can’t put words in these men’s mouths, but it sounds like they had real issues with the success of a woman in their household and that this is about a loss of power.”

    Warner Brothers, the studio that released the Harry Potter films, did not respond to calls for comment.

    Afshan Azad first appeared in the Potter franchise in "Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire." She will also appear in Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows, the final film in the saga.
    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...y-potter-actress-afshan-azad-charged-assault/
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Its good to see that Fox News is so worried about Muslim women in England.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    I'd like to know why this is being called an "atempted honor killing", when it just looks like a simple domestic dispute?

    Is it honor killing or attempted honor killing when it's a Muslim but domestic violence when it's not a Muslim or Indian?
     
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  7. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    You've got to be kidding. Publicity stunt for sure....
     
  8. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think they're particularly interested in Muslim women in England, but rather weird and/or salacious stories involving celebrities.

    I think the possibility of an honor killing comes up when the people involved are of a culture with an active tradition of honor killing.

    Here's the definition from wikipedia:

    Honor crimes are acts of violence, usually murder, committed by male family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce — even from an abusive husband — or (allegedly) committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that "dishonors" her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life.[5]

    and here's a bit that seems particulary on point:

    The loose term honor killing applies to killing of both males and females in cultures that practice it.[6] For example, during the year 2002 in Pakistan, it is estimated that 245 women and 137 men were killed in the name of Karo-kari in Sindh[citation needed]. These killings target women and men who choose to have relationships outside of their family's tribal affiliation and/or religious community.

    Some women who bridge social divides, publicly engage other communities, or adopt some of the customs or the religion of an outside group may thus also be attacked. In countries that receive immigration, some otherwise low-status immigrant men and boys have asserted their dominant patriarchal status by inflicting honor killings on women family members who have participated in public life, for example in feminist and integration politics
     
  9. Kernl Sandrs Registered Senior Member

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    Yay religion!...

    ...


    ...

    ...Right?
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    On possibilities, and leaps into the abyss

    Is it possible that FOX News and other agencies might exploit the fact of the family being Muslim? As Bells noted, there is nothing in the report that establishes this specifically as an "attempted honor killing".

    Does the fact that these honor killings take place mean that no family dispute among Muslims that results in some sort of violence can be anything but an attempted honor killing?

    I think that, as the details emerge, the idea of an "attempted honor killing" will either be supported or proven sensationalist. From the information we have now, it seems a bit of a leap. We expect this of FOX News. Should we expect it of you?

    So far, even as Abdul and Ashraf Azad prepare to plead not guilty and are granted bail, we still haven't the details of how this came about.

    Now, maybe where you're from, fights between people are simple, straightforward affairs with no nuance to distinguish between narrative and fact, but around my corner of the Universe, it's usually better to figure out what those details and nuances are.

    Yes, this could be an "attempted honor killing". And yes, it could be a simple family disagreement that got well out of hand.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Manchester Evening News. "Harry Potter star in court as dad accused of threatening to kill her". July 2, 2010. MENMedia.co.uk. July 3, 2010. http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...urt_as_dad_accused_of_threatening_to_kill_her
     
  11. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I'm glad she's ok, because damn she's a cutie! And, just on general principles.
     
  12. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Thank fuck she's okay.
     
  13. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    Happens even in non-Muslim families..
     
  14. Psigknosis Registered Member

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    My thoughts exactly... +1 for religion! w00t!

    [/sarcasm]
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    Yes, she certainly looks like she is from that "culture", doesn't she?

    I read the story in your OP and do you know what I saw? A simple case of domestic violence. But because she is a Muslim, then it is automatically an "attempted honor killing". I had a neighbour who used to beat the shit out of his wife. Once he threw her our of window, shattering the glass, because, from his screaming, she had smiled too nicely at a workman who'd come to their house to install the airconditioning system. Was that an attempted honour killing? Or domestic violence?

    The police treated it as domestic violence, the courts did as well. Yet, a family argument (that happens in just about all families where there is a daughter in the household.. 'there is no way in hell I'm letting you go out of this house to see that boy'..) got out of hand which degenerated in domestic violence and we are calling it "attempted honor killing" because she's a Muslim? I'm sorry, but no matter how you paint this, it's such a massive leap at the moment with what you have presented that I have to wonder why you have taken such a leap.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    @Bells:

    Its an advantage that Afsha'an [always loved that name] is a Muslim

    There are so many others that no one will pay attention to:

    Why you might have people converting just so they make the news!
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,882
    Sad songs

    Strangely, you remind me here of a song ....

    Hilary went to the Catholic Church because she wanted information.
    The vicar, or whatever, took her to one side and gave her confirmation.
    Saint Theresa's calling her, the church up on the hill is looking lovely.
    But it doesn't interest, the only things she wants to know is how and why and when and where to go.
    How and why and when and where to follow.
    How and why and when and where to go.
    How and why and when and where to follow.

    But if you are feeling sinister,
    Go off and see a minister;
    He'll try in vain to take away the pain of being a hopeless unbeliever.

    When she got back, her spirituality was thrown into confusion.
    So she got a special deal on renting
    From the man at Rediffusion
    "Look at me! I'm on TV,
    It makes up for the shortcomings of being poor.
    Now I'm in a million pieces", picked up for deliberation
    By the people listening at home.
    By the people watching on the telly.
    By the people listening at home.
    By the people watching on the telly.

    But if you are feeling sinister,
    Go off and see a minister;
    Chances are you'll probably feel better
    If you stayed and played with yourself.


    (Belle and Sebastian, "If You're Feeling Sinister")

    I think, though, you make an excellent point, which I will twist just a bit: FOX News, and plenty of others, in leaping straight to the sensationalism of "attempted honor killing", do domestic violence survivors a disservice. Much like the unfortunate case of a pop singer last year. Chris hit Rihanna; no, Rihanna hit him first ... but, wait, Chris has a history of domestic violence .... It played out as a sensational public drama, and it seems to me another chance for society to deal with the realities of domestic violence was squandered at the altar of celebrity scandal. What discussion I encountered of domestic violence in general during that period was superficial at best, if not downright insulting to the intelligence.
     
  18. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently the issue is about her forming some kind of a relationship with a Hindu fellow. Beyond that I can't say, but presumably it's a religious issue, then.

    I suppose the furor relates to the not-quite-sanction-but-sympathetic-eye that such crimes are given in Jordan and Syria until recently. (Possibly there have also been changes in Jordan since.) Apparently, the perp is or was given more leniency because the victim is expected to have engaged in "unlawful actions", however such is defined by those states. I looked around a little for updates but didn't find much about changes in the law.

    Morally shitty, which is why people get worked up about it.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I almost regretted adding that statement. It seemed too flippant to consign domestic violence to ideological meanderings. But that song was totally worth it.
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    We should tolerate and honor their culture. Beating up women for dating isn't wrong, it's just a different cultural form.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    But it does not happen just in "their culture". It (domestic violence) happens in every culture.

    Tell me, how may Christian and white fathers in the UK get the shits that their daughter is dating a Muslim or Hindu?

    I have many friends whose family disowned them entirely when they married someone of colour and of a different religion. Most of them have made peace with their parents and family, usually happened after they would have children, but some still refuse to acknowledge the spouse of their child because he/she is not the same as they are. I know at least one, white Christian girl who had to leave home at 16 when her father threatened to lock her in her room if she continued to date the Vietnamese boy she had been dating and she left after her father beat her and threatened him because she was still seeing said boy.

    That kind of violence is quite common in all societies. But it seems to only be referred to as an "honour killing" when it's a Muslim or Hindu.

    This particular case has nothing to do with "honour killing". It is a family argument that has turned violent and is thus more appropriately termed a domestic violence issue.


    Heh..I actually have that on my playlist... Love that song.

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    Thanks for the link though. And oh so appropriate..

    I have to wonder though.

    At the heart of this we supposedly have a very strict Muslim household with a father and brother supposedly hell bent on her not dating a Hindu guy that some violence was involved.. So strict in fact that they allowed her to play a non-Muslim girl in movies about witches and warlocks and magic.. And allowing her to pose for photos like the one Madant posted in the OP..

    I mean from that alone, it has to amount to an "attempted honour killing" right? Right?

    In any other case, it would be domestic violence. But wait. She's a Muslim, ergo it has to be an attempted honour killing (even though her injuries were not even close to life threatening) no matter how much of a stretch it is..
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2010
  22. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    That was sarcasm, right? Please tell me it was sarcasm...
     
  23. superstring01 Moderator

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    Not even approaching the degree that it does with Muslims. You don't hear many christian families amputating labia, throwing battery acid on a woman's face, or murdering sisters because she dishonored the family. Moreover, the abuse that happens in most nations, happens because people are evil. The abuse fostered within Muslim nations is religiously instilled and done--quite regularly--in the name of Islam.

    ~String
     

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