i wonder...

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Lori_7, May 20, 2010.

  1. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i saw a thread regarding parapsychology and mental illness, and i'm aware of some opinions, regarding an explanation of paranormal events, made by people on this board.

    several years ago, i went through a very intense paranormal experience. one that i describe as spiritual in nature. i was 37 when this happened to me. up until that time, and going through it, i was as sane as anyone, and i have a lifetime to prove that. i actually think i dealt with it really well...considering.

    it was very isolating, and frustrating. and it damn near drove me insane trying to deal with it...trying to reconcile it...alone. because if you don't live through it, you can not understand. i had tons of family and friends who really loved me. and it's because of them, that i had to take an objective look at my behavior and change it.

    i had a conversation with my mother on the way to a funeral one evening, and i proposed that if the insane were to take an objective look at their lives, and in comparison with other people around them, surely they would realize that their behavior was not constructive, beneficial, or for all intents and purposes, right. and my mother looked at me like i was insane.

    so this is what i wonder...

    i wonder if it is those who can not and will not reconcile paranormal experiences who end up chained to hospital beds?
     
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  3. Bebelina kospla.com Valued Senior Member

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    I think you have a very good point there.
     
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Those people who have mental illnesses cannot, for the most part, distinguish their reality with that which you and I live within. That's why they have the problems to begin with, they believe they are right and everyone else is wrong or at least going about things in ways they cannot realize.
     
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  7. Bebelina kospla.com Valued Senior Member

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    It's an integration problem.
     
  8. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    to feel isolated, justified, and to just go with it, whatever the cost. their home, job, family, freedom. can they perceive that loss? do they just not care? do they think they don't have a choice? reminds me of that movie "a beautiful mind".

    i've wondered in particular about people who are devout and adamant atheists and general naysayers, who don't "believe" in anything that can't be put under a microscope or measured with a ruler. rather apparently having their egos all tied up in that premise for some reason that i don't understand.

    so the paranormal is experienced by a person like this, and they diagnose themselves mentally ill because of it. then what do they do?

    it's proposed that mentally ill people aren't able to make objective, healthy decisions about their lives.

    it's proposed that paranormal experiences are the result of mental illness.

    what does that say about those who attest to paranormal experiences, and are able to make objective, healthy decisions about their lives?
     
  9. Bebelina kospla.com Valued Senior Member

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    They have learned to live with it.
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    What makes you think they diagnose themselves mentally ill?

    Quite possibly.

    Where? By whom?

    Even if the bit about "paranormal experiences are the result of mental illness" were true, don't you think there are degrees of mental illness? Or are you under the impression it's an all-or-nothing thing?
     
  11. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    It might be some kind of pride issue. An "I am special / gifted / chosen because I have these experiences" type of deal possibly. It could also be that their minds are hard-wired (for whatever reason) to take the most destructive path for themselves.

    I might qualify for this type of "atheist"; however, I am not sure nor am I sure what it is specifically that you are trying to understand.

    If the experience doesn't correspond to reality then why should there be anything to do?

    I *think* mental illness might be reserved for those people who can't make objective, healthy, decisions due to how their brain works.

    I am sure some are. Others are probably just forms of natural human hallucination.

    Those people aren't mentally ill. They simply have experiences that others don't have (and I suspect that objective observation will show the experience to be completely within the confines of the mind of the experiencer).
     
  12. Danny G "Listen.. you smell something" Registered Senior Member

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    Lori, forgive me for asking, but do you mind detailing the experience? Fully understand if you say no.

    My reason for asking: I don't believe in the paranormal yet, but have had a few people in my life whom i respect very much due to there intelligence and honesty that have had paranormal experiences, one about me!!, so to try and understand it better, its good to hear people experiences.
     
  13. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    correct. as i did. it wasn't easy. a learning experience for sure. you at least learn what you're made of.
     
  14. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    because they (armchair) diagnose others that way.



    some people on this forum. if you frequent the religious forum you know that a belief in the spiritual realm is attributed to stupidity by some. then, if you state that you believe because of a spiritual experience, the armchair diagnoses start, and you're told that you hallucinate, or are a schizophrenic, or a liar.


    degrees? yeah, sure. alzheimer's, ocd, clinical depression. i do not however, to the best of my knowledge, believe in temporary and/or selective mental illness, as it relates specifically to a paranormal experience that someone just doesn't want to believe, for whatever reason. i consider it an off the cuff and defensive response in regards to an ideology that they hold dear, rather egotistically and arrogantly.

    so i wonder what their reaction would be if they experienced something like i did and can't explain.
     
  15. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i observe that everyone is hard-wired to be destructive to some degree.



    i'm trying to understand the benefit of being adamant and close-minded toward an experience one has never had. as if a lack of experience somehow equates to knowledge.



    if because of your own ideals and experiences, you were to think you were either hallucinating or schizophrenic, what would you do?



    why do you suspect that?

    do you see the difference between your response, and the response of danny g?
     
  16. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    And you're still assuming (despite information to the contrary) that everyone who is "adamant and close-minded" (i.e. the disbelievers) has never had any such experiences.
    As if YOUR experience equates to an infallible all-encompassing knowledge.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Untrue: SOME are diagnosed that way.

    If someone told you persistently that cats are green and 8 feet tall what would be your opinion of them?

    So, egotistically and arrogantly you assume that an one-off "paranormal experience" is
    A) always diagnosed as a mental illness, and
    B) can never occur as a one-off.
    So do you also hold that ANY mental illness or aberration cannot be temporary or due to selective illness?
    On what basis?

    As I have told you before: my reaction was "Hey that's neat" and then it gets filed under "Weird shit that can't be explained at the moment, but may be worth investigating if it occurs again".
     
  18. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    first of all danny, i really appreciate your attitude and response to my post.

    secondly, to my knowledge to date, there has never been a beneficial outcome from me attempting to describe my experience to anyone. like i said, and i do not mean to patronize in any way, if you don't live through it, you can not understand. but, i honestly believe that an open mind and humble heart invites knowledge. because, if you think you've got the answer already, and you're prideful about that, there is just no capacity for learning.

    with that said, looking back, i can see that in some ways, i was prepared for what happened to me. then again, it seems like nothing could have prepared me for what happened to me. i already believed in god because of experience. i had also offered myself up to help, and to not be afraid to help, some people, again, because of experience.

    in a nutshell, i believe that a manifestation of the holy spirit is taking place on this earth right now that is unprecedented. i swear to god, i felt like noah going through this, and i know i'm not the only one. thank god, i've been privy to a lot of verification and substantiation, albeit from people i don't know.

    the experience involved lucid dreams, astral projection (not on my part as i have no idea how to do that), channeling, and the sensation and observation of myself and my immediate environment being manipulated by something i could not see. i received biblical prophecy revelation that i still do not understand from a logistical point of view. i do understand that what happened to me is a part of something much bigger than i am, and that is important. and even though i don't understand it entirely or logistically, it was very meaningful, and rational, and the experience ultimately benefited me personally. it opened up my mind, humbled me, and made me stronger than i ever thought i could be.
     
  19. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    no, no, no, no, no...not infallible, and not all-emcompassing...at all.

    what i wonder is what their response might be to such experiences. i mean, what would it do to such a person to think they're hallucinating, or schizophrenic, when in fact, they are not!?
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Yet you make claims that you previously been told are not true.
    I.e. you're assuming that everyone who disbelieves has never had such experiences.

    You've already had the answer to that. And the last sentence is certainly open to dispute.
    How do you know for a fact that they aren't hallucinating or schizophrenic (or going through any other temporary aberration)?
     
  21. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i was diagnosed that way, and i did not appreciate it one bit.


    i've seen a lot of cats in my life.


    is there such a thing as temporary and selective schizophrenia? are schizophrenics typically able to reconcile what they experience and lead positive and productive lives? do hallucinations and mental illness typically result in what is ultimately a positive learning experience?


    i can live with that.
     
  22. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i'm actually wondering what they may do in light of them. how it would affect them.


    granted. you know, when i was in college and experimented with acid, i was very disappointed that i didn't hallucinate, but if i had, i would have known that's what it was, and why.
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    And you are not all people.

    Which doesn't answer the question.
    How many have you seen that are green and 8 foot tall?

    Why do you keep associating hallucinations and mental illness with schizophrenia? There are other forms.

    Already answered.
     

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