Holy Spirit Come

[jayleew]

Why is it that whenever something good happens, God gets credit. As if God only exists when good things happen. No one ever wants to hear about the bad things that happen in the presence of God. If you are a believer, then they are all events to cherish, good or bad.

I send my daughter to a private Christian school. It is the best education in the city, but I think about her attending often because it has an massive impact on our lives. But, not all of it may be beneficial.

Anyway, this happens all the time in church (that I haven't attended in over a year), but I wanted to bring this up here:

There was a lot of email and snail mail going across about how great it was when the school experienced a revival at chapel time during school. There was an inspirational story told by boy who gives God the credit for his making it through his trials. After the story was told and the music faded, an altar call was given and many children including my own were moved to walk up and confess their sins and renew the vows to God. Religion aside, I give credit to the event of inspiration. It is a credit to inspire the youth of today into action to make everyone's lives better.

But...

Why does it take an inspirational story for the Holy Spirit to manifest? Why can't an inspiration just be cherished and applauded? Why can't something good happen without Christians dragging in the Holy Spirit?

As for me, I'm undecided with the existence of God, and partly because those who confess Jesus as their lord and keeper of their soul cannot recognize their Holy Spirit. Well, to give them credit if there is a God, then I'd say maybe they are recognizing it 50% of the time. By their own admission they fear that they become a church that operates without correctly acknowledging the Holy Spirit...thinking the Holy Spirit is with them, but it is not. That is a fear told by many preachers I've heard sermons from, many times. I think the root is perhaps from the scriptures talking about people, like the Jews, who did not accept Jesus as the savior. Or those like the Pharisees, who Jesus condemned. Jesus himself says the even some of the elect will be deceived. Given this fear, it is enough to say Christians are not completely confident in their God radar. So, how can it be assumed that an event is of the Spirit, or an event is without?

Here's the problem I have with the existence of God: All these events that are reproducible. Every single event I hear about how God was so good is reproducible. They all can exist without God. You take a huge tragedy or calamity. When people band together it is inspirational. It is the stuff of legends and heroes. But, these things can happen without God. Every event in history is the result of man or nature. So, what is God, and what is circumstance??

That is the problem I have with Christians assuming things are through their filtered reality. It is both their strength and their undoing.

The bottom line is if it can be reproduced...if there is plausible explanation...the conclusion about the existence of God, in any situation, cannot be achieved. In fact, we are left with the fact that the event in question above was the result of heroism. I wonder if any revival would have happened if no story was told, and no music was played. What then? Can revival happen without all these man made things? I challenge any Christian to point out a case where people got together and said nothing and did nothing, but God came in and they had revival.

[Bishadi]

Why is it that whenever something good happens, God gets credit. As if God only exists when good things happen. No one ever wants to hear about the bad things that happen in the presence of God. If you are a believer, then they are all events to cherish, good or bad.

good point as both are a part of the whole

, an altar call was given and many children including my own were moved to walk up and confess their sins and renew the vows to God. Religion aside, I give credit to the event of inspiration. It is a credit to inspire the youth of today into action to make everyone's lives better.

the homage to a diety offers an example and rituals a method of observing self reflection

parents can do the same (be the example) and teach responsibilities without the story lines; that is the spirit

But...

Why does it take an inspirational story for the Holy Spirit to manifest?

because it is allowed and sought by people like you and i who paid to have our children educated beyond the public system, that fails in maintaining personal responsibility upon the child.

Why can't an inspiration just be cherished and applauded?

because you and i did not have the knowledge base, that is capable of rearing our child and teaching them, while having to work.

The inspiration of 'good' is observed by your child knowing how to choose between selfish and compassionate acts. (what they do)

Why can't something good happen without Christians dragging in the Holy Spirit?

because in the 'x' game, 'we the people' are born bad (why we my be baptized)

reality is, we all equally capable of compassion, good, bad and even being as loving or evil as any, ever written about.

They claim all good was by 'god' or all bad was by 'satan'; both other than your choice

As for me, I'm undecided with the existence of God, and partly because those who confess Jesus as their lord and keeper of their soul cannot recognize their Holy Spirit.

Hey, even jesus said we all capable not to mention what Gen 3:22 says outright.

the problem is not that 'we the people' are not capable it is that few believe they are because our parents don't hold us and themselves to being responsible.

Well, to give them credit if there is a God, then I'd say maybe they are recognizing it 50% of the time. By their own admission they fear that they become a church that operates without correctly acknowledging the Holy Spirit...thinking the Holy Spirit is with them, but it is not. That is a fear told by many preachers I've heard sermons from, many times.

at least you are thinking on your own

now teach your kids that but to be responsible for their actions (they have as much holy spirit as any, if they just listen (use compassion within honesty as the guide).

[sandy]

1-Why does it take an inspirational story for the Holy Spirit to manifest?
2-Why can't an inspiration just be cherished and applauded?
3-Why can't something good happen without Christians dragging in the Holy Spirit? ...

1- It doesn't. He is ALWAYS there living inside His/God's/Jesus' children. All we
have to do is call on Him and He answers. We often get too busy/emotional/ tired/whatever to remember to talk to Him first.
2-It can. It's just better to give credit to Him who caused/enabled it.
3- Because we know everything is better with God. We love to give Him the praise and glory.
If you doubt God's existence I am perplexed by the purpose of this thread.

[pjdude1219]

1- It doesn't. He is ALWAYS there living inside His/God's/Jesus' children. All we
have to do is call on Him and He answers. We often get too busy/emotional/ tired/whatever to remember to talk to Him first.
2-It can. It's just better to give credit to Him who caused/enabled it.
3- Because we know everything is better with God. We love to give Him the praise and glory.
If you doubt God's existence I am perplexed by the purpose of this thread.

yeah god made all those abortion clinic bombings, the 30 years war, the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the missionary work of the spanish under threat of force, and the bigoted slaying of homosexuals good and better

[sifreak21]

you forgot all the genisides

[pjdude1219]

you forgot all the genisides

I do not know of any christian motivated genocides

[jayleew]

1- It doesn't. He is ALWAYS there living inside His/God's/Jesus' children. All we
have to do is call on Him and He answers. We often get too busy/emotional/ tired/whatever to remember to talk to Him first.
2-It can. It's just better to give credit to Him who caused/enabled it.
3- Because we know everything is better with God. We love to give Him the praise and glory.
If you doubt God's existence I am perplexed by the purpose of this thread.

The purpose of the thread is to bring to light reality and make Christians maybe think about how God fits in it, or vice versa. And, it is also to raise the question why do Christians jump at the chance to give praise to God when they experience something inspirational, even if it has nothing to do with God.

[sifreak21]

I do not know of any christian motivated genocides

he created everythign didnt he? he planned out every acting before we do it so he knew thoes people he created were going to do that

[jayleew]

I do not know of any christian motivated genocides

Crusades and the Salem Witch Trials. A lot of innocent people were executed because they were labeled Islamic, Hethen, or Witch.

[Medicine*Woman]

I do not know of any christian motivated genocides

*************
M*W: Well, let's see, there were:

The Crusades
The Inquisition
The Holocaust
The Destruction and Resettlement of The Native Americans

to name just a few.

[pjdude1219]

*************
M*W: Well, let's see, there were:

The Crusades

political

The Inquisition

iffy

The Holocaust

WTF the holocaust had nothing to do with christianity and certainly wasn't motivated by it. your hatred of faith is blinding you.

The Destruction and Resettlement of The Native Americans

nothing to do with religion

to name just a few.

so out of four you got like a 1/2. way to go.

[John99]

Hitler was an Atheist and so was his main ally Mussolini, not to mention the Japanese who maybe not Atheist. I am not sure what religion they are though.

[TFL]

Hitler wasn't an atheist.

[Pinwheel]

Hitler was an Atheist and so was his main ally Mussolini, not to mention the Japanese who maybe not Atheist. I am not sure what religion they are though.

What makes you think the Japenese are atheists?

[John99]

Hitler wasn't an atheist.

It is hard to really pinpoint what Hitler was and it really doesnt matter. Hitler had mental problems and his problems were exacerbated with daily doses of methamphetamines. From a political standpoint Hitler chose to have no Christian allies if we are talking about in positions of leadership.

I thnk he bounced around between Atheism and a buch of other things, including the occult- just depended on how he felt that day. Then there is the whole eugenics part of things that the Nazi's were very much involved with. If you look at what Hitler said in private it contradicts his speeches.

His link with Mussolini is pretty revealing though because he was definitely an Atheist, especially around that time.

[jayleew]

Witch hunts were sanctioned genocide spurred on in Europe from 1480 to 1700's. The Puritans sparked the Salem Witch Trials, even with some Protestant antagonists who upheld the separation of church and state from the Bible. Of course only 20 people were hanged in the Salem Trials. But, there were an estimated 40k to 100k people executed in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt

During the Early Middle Ages, witch trials were the direct result of Christian Church doctrine, despite Canon law, which in Canon Episcopi, followed the views of the church father Augustine of Hippo (400 AD) that belief in the existence of witchcraft was heresy, since according to Augustine "a heretic is one who either devises or follows false and new opinions, for the sake of some temporal profit".

The Council of Paderborn in 785 explicitly outlawed the very belief in witches, and Charlemagne later confirmed the law. The Council of Frankfurt in 794, called by Charlemagne, was also very explicit in condemning "the persecution of alleged witches and wizards", calling the belief in witchcraft "superstitious", and ordering the death penalty for those who presume to burn witches.

Nonetheless, Pope John XXII formalized the persecution of witchcraft in 1320 when he authorized the Inquisition to prosecute sorcerors. In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII issued Summis desiderantes affectibus, a Papal bull authorizing two inquisitors, Kramer and Sprenger, to systemize the persecution of witches.

[Anti-Flag]

Holy Spirit Come

Is that what happens on palm sunday?

[lightgigantic]

Why is it that whenever something good happens, God gets credit.

In short, because we are never in a state of complete independence

As if God only exists when good things happen. No one ever wants to hear about the bad things that happen in the presence of God. If you are a believer, then they are all events to cherish, good or bad.

True, but initially its easier to simply see it in terms of what one sees as positive

Why does it take an inspirational story for the Holy Spirit to manifest? Why can't an inspiration just be cherished and applauded? Why can't something good happen without Christians dragging in the Holy Spirit?

I guess it depends what scope for independence one is entertaining. For instance if a person tells there own success story divorced from the personalities who supported them through such a move, it looks badly.

As for me, I'm undecided with the existence of God, and partly because those who confess Jesus as their lord and keeper of their soul cannot recognize their Holy Spirit. Well, to give them credit if there is a God, then I'd say maybe they are recognizing it 50% of the time. By their own admission they fear that they become a church that operates without correctly acknowledging the Holy Spirit...thinking the Holy Spirit is with them, but it is not. That is a fear told by many preachers I've heard sermons from, many times. I think the root is perhaps from the scriptures talking about people, like the Jews, who did not accept Jesus as the savior. Or those like the Pharisees, who Jesus condemned. Jesus himself says the even some of the elect will be deceived. Given this fear, it is enough to say Christians are not completely confident in their God radar. So, how can it be assumed that an event is of the Spirit, or an event is without?

Strange irony
You're already making that assumption with the conclusion that some don't have it with them

Here's the problem I have with the existence of God: All these events that are reproducible. Every single event I hear about how God was so good is reproducible.

reproducible by what?

They all can exist without God.

reproducible by your imagination?
What isn't?

You take a huge tragedy or calamity. When people band together it is inspirational. It is the stuff of legends and heroes. But, these things can happen without God. Every event in history is the result of man or nature. So, what is God, and what is circumstance??

Its not clear on what basis you are drawing the exclusive conclusion that everything can be determined (or perhaps imagined) to be a consequence of random circumstance.

That is the problem I have with Christians assuming things are through their filtered reality. It is both their strength and their undoing.

The bottom line is if it can be reproduced...if there is plausible explanation...the conclusion about the existence of God, in any situation, cannot be achieved.

plausible to who?
someone who imagines everything can be reproduced otherwise?

In fact, we are left with the fact that the event in question above was the result of heroism. I wonder if any revival would have happened if no story was told, and no music was played. What then? Can revival happen without all these man made things? I challenge any Christian to point out a case where people got together and said nothing and did nothing, but God came in and they had revival.

I challenge you to indicate how a revival of anything is possible while doing and saying nothing