What is wrong in the Western Economies?

And you are so wrong it's hilarious Michael.

It would take the current TSA annual budget 125 years to cost a Trillion dollars.

And that's ignoring the fact that the TSA replaced the also expensive Airline operated Security system which drastically failed us. So even if the Gov system costs a billion or two more than the lax and patronage based private system, the extra cost is worth it (in Atlanta for instance, every screener was Black prior to the TSA).

And Michael, if anyone is sticking their finger up your ass before you fly, you are being hustled, becaues I can assure you, that finger doesn't belong to a TSA agent.

Once more Michael claiming mental superiority.
That he can see what the rest of us miss.
But, as shown above, Michael you are wrong about nearly everything you post.

 

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While I agree Michael gets much wrong or at least is confused, or not well informed, etc. He is 100% correct in his post above so your comments, if on it and they appear to be as placed immediately below his text, are in error.

What he states above, is simply a re-worded version of Pogo´s: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

There are many ways to state this fundamental truth; first cleary stated in 1835, in full book form: Democracy in America.
Read more about that book, and the fundamental problem here: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2573119&postcount=1
But note that now with fiat money that serious problem in America is now in soluble - worst ever depression is coming soon after the run on the dollar.

 

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FINALLY, something we agree on.

No Billy, I quoted what I was commenting on.

We did not spend 1 Trillion dollars on the TSA and TSA agents don't stick fingers up your ass as part of the security drill.

The rest was not worth commenting on, but we all know of your bragging about untold riches and your prediction and so there is no reason to keep repeating it.

 

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In post 81 you quoted Macheal in two well separated sections as anyone can see.
Your comment: " ... Once more Michael claiming mental superiority. ...That he can see what the rest of us miss."
was placed under your second quote of Michael, where he had correctly said:

"What's wrong with Western Economies? Mainly the Cattle that make up the society. The have almost no idea about anything that's going on around them. They watch the idiot box, nod, and eat their grass."

Your correct comments about Machael´s silly assertions that TSA agents fingers were going up asses, was correctly placed under your first quote of him.

It is very dishonest for you to now claim that your comments placed under your second quote of Machael were really about his "fingers up ass" statements in your your first quote of him, even though they were placed under your second quote of him.

Your comments under your first quote of him had already shot down his silliness about fingers up asses. So clearly your comments under your second quote of him were about your second quote of him, where he was correct.

All this just shows is that to avoid ever admitting you were wrong, you will be dishonest, but that is nothing new.

SUMMARY:
Here is your second quote of Machael:

And here is what you posted immediately under that:

You are now lying to claim this was about his distant first quote, not about the one it is immediately under.

 

I am not LYING Billy.

I think though there is some confusion because of your rather ambiguous post.

You wrote:

(bolding mine)

And I took 100% correct in his post above to refer to Michael's ENTIRE post that I've been commenting on.

I suspect, based on this bizzare childish response from you is that what you meant by that was NOT to apply to 100% of his original post but just to that short QUOTE fragment from his post about us being cattle.

So, you could try to be a tad clearer in your posts to avoid confusion Billy.

A Short Quote from a Post is NOT a Post.

I know the difference is subtle, but still you should know the difference.

And just maybe you should seek clarification about what someone means before calling them a liar.

Just sayin.

As to just that fragment.

No, I totally disagree that he is 100% correct with that assessment either.

 

Yes that is from my post 82. If you want to make a word in it bold, make that word "above" as it points directly to what I called 100% correct.

In my post 82 there is only one part of a post of Michael´s quoted and it is ABOVE the rest of post 82 text, which is no way ambigious.

This is 100% of post 82´s quote of Michael in full:

You do understand the meaning of “above” do you not? Only if you don´t could you think post 82 is ambigious in what I am making reference to of Michael´s text.

You could not possibly understand me to be referring to silly thing about fingers up ass holes in some other post and calling them100% correct.
Above means above! UNAMBIGIOULY

Also there is no possible way for me to call his silly “fingers in ass holes” just a rewording of Pogo´s “we have met the enemy and he is us.” But clearly Michael´s “What's wrong with Western Economies? Mainly the Cattle that make up the society.” Is a variant of the idea that it is the American population that is the “enemy” Pogo spoke of.

Quit blowing smoke. Quit ducking and weaving. Quit squirming for a twisted interpretation or false referrence. Quit making post fact claim as to what you were speaking of, etc. I. e.
Quit LYING! – Just do as most do when they are wrong – admit it and move on.

I know you have never done this, but it does not really hurt. I have admitted errors many times. Several, besides me, others have called you a lier or worse. By twisting and squirming, blowing smoke, etc. you only discredit yourself, but it is for your lying, observed by several mods, that consideration has been given to banning you. (I voted against that as you do very good job of searching for fact you can quote.) If the subject comes up again, and it probablly will, I will switch my vote - your searching ability is not worth the agrevation you cause to many.

 

Both the quote was Above and Michael's Post was Above that line, so yes the meaning of your post was ambiguous Billy.

YOU made the error when you referred to a QUOTE as a POST.

They AREN'T the same thing.

So no Billy, I wasn't LYING as you claimed, I just misunderstood your ambiguous post.

And to repeat, now that I understand what you were saying in that post, I totally disagree that he is 100% correct with that assessment either.

 

RE: TSA

ONLY a complete fool would think it's worth $10 BILLION+ per year to scan and virtual-anal probe Americans. If YOU want that kind of service, YOU can pay for it - but don't make ME pay for it. I fly once every few months and it's ONLY in the USA where I have to put up with this bullshit. Seriously, it's so f*cking ridiculous.

Picture this: Everyone from Italians to Japanese are in their respective lounge waiting to fly here or there. Then there's one lounge off to the side, with a few fat-arse TSA agents and an entirely separate additional set of scanning equipment set up in the lounge for those who are flying into the USA. There's the American Cattle all lined up nicely getting their anal probes and full body nude scan. Everyone else is looking at us and thinking WTF is wrong with these people!?!?!

Some even take pictures - I know I do. It'd almost be comical if it weren't so sad. All these fat-arse brain-dead American Cattle lined up for an additional scan and body pat-down.

That's not what happens when you fly to Japan - - or even Communist China. No. They don't put up with that kind of horse shit. They still have a bit of dignity left. Oh, but you want to fly into the USA, line up just one more time there's some fat loud American with an IQ of 65 who can barely speak proper English with a virtual anal probe greeting you in the god damn lounge curtsy of Income Taxed American Cattle.

.... and Cattle is an apt description.



Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
-- Benjamin Franklin

 

As for competing currency within the USA.

I just wonder WHAT society would be like without the Federal Reserve. What would life be like in the USA if States and private individuals could print their own currency. Would the general public be more attuned towards currency and what it's value is? What it's role in society is.

As for getting out of USD as a currency. I did that long ago with the exception of one long term energy stock I own and plan to hold onto. Many things are going up relative to the USD. Some 100% in as little as 5 years. Which is good for me, but doesn't make me happy. I'm NOT happy to watch the USA implode in on itself. I hate seeing Cattle being brought to the slaughter as is happening in the US. I expect this will continue to be the case if the Fed continues to monetize the debt. Which it seems like it's going to do at least until 2013-14. The USA will end up exactly like Japan. A flat shitty economy. Only unlike Japan - I expect fat Cattle arsed Americans to bend over and willing give up most of their Civil Rights for a hand full of hot off the press USD feed pellets as society turns ugly. Real ugly. There's a difference between us and Japan, we're not Japanese.

 

I am courious as to how you picked 2014 (or slightly before) as date for FED/Treaasury fiat money presses may stop running. We agree. About 6 years ago, I set a six year wide window for the colapse of the dollar with end of Halloween 2014.

My thoughts were that it was possible, but unlikely, that investors would realized that buying 10 year or longer T bonds was sure to be a lossing investment, if held to maturity. It could be profitable only under the greater fool system and has been until last week when interest rates surge up and prices down. - I.e. profit by selling them to some greater fool willing to buy. But my projection of the growing interest on the growing debt (15.4 Trillion now) with ever growing annual defficits (1.5 trillion now) was that the bond borrowing was, as they say, "unsustainable"

I had sort of expected many to get out of Treasury paper now as now the FED is the largest owner of Treasury´s promises, and China was a net seller in 2011. When some start to wake up, to fact current system of US finances is unsustainable, and sell their bonds, their falling value (rising interest rates despite the FED´s efforts to hold them low) will be seen by others as time to get out before the value of their bonds drops even more. Unsustainable things, end - and very rapidly when some rate of getting out threshold is crossed.

My expectations are than Obama & Helicopter Ben will be able to print money and buy bonds with it until both are safely out of office (Obama not getting a second term, perhaps even refusing the democratic nomination, "for personnal reasons" when he see the end is near.) I still think he is too smart to want to go down in history with the world´s worst depression starting on his watch, but the ego trip as POTUS may have cancelled his better judgements.

 

And it's not 10 Billion+ per year and no one is anal-probed.

No what is ridiculous is your idea.

As you enter the terminal you can select full screening or pre-9/11 screening.
Of course BOTH end up on the same plane, so there you are, at 30,000 ft when the Terrorist next to you sets off the bomb he snuck on board in his shoes, because of course, like you, he chose the cheaper screening.

AMF

The fact is every major country has security pretty much like we have it.
Having flown to many destinations outside the US since 9/11 what is clear is that our system is pretty much the same as all the others and better than most.

Now I haven't been to Japan, so I checked and sure enough, your BS about Japan is just that:

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Gee, that system is remarkably similar to the set-up I use to board my flights.

And the changes made to security and aircraft and procedures, nearly identical:

http://www.mlit.go.jp/koku/english/04_security/index.html

http://www.jal.com/en/safety/airport/

 

Excerpt 1:

Keith1 reply to Excerpt 1: This statement is an opinion only. --Capitalism can (and maybe in most instances) allow unfair profit levels for the profit-or (person A, who makes a profit), that cannot be sustained by the profit-ee (person B, who is the source of the profit), unless B can make up the discrepancy in the exchange, by being a profit-or in a separate exchange.
--Capitalism cannot guarantee everyone is a Profit-or, which is an inherent weakness in the system, whether the market is free or otherwise. One might add the frightening conclusion that all capitalism is a "pyramid scheme" of inevitable breakdown and failure over time, without measures that adjust those crippling disparities (hense my K1 strategy posted elsewhere--"Local Public Investment Strategies").

Excerpt 2:

keith1:This finding is not conclusive, as there are extraneous factors created in an atmosphere of national security threats, that would reduce this quote's conclusions to a possible circumstantial coincidence only (not actually verified as fact, and perhaps even intended as fear-mongering).

Excerpt 3:

keith1: This is exterior observational opinion at best.
Apathy, if correctly diagnosed, can be from any number of causes. To suggest a demeaning character of complacency doesn't address the possibility of depression, a feeling of helplessness, escapism or distraction through entertainment venues, heightened level of intellectual pursuit, etc.
The quote was loose conjecture, unfair propaganda, more at revealing the angry, venomous undercurrent issues of the poster, an outright attempt to demonize and demoralize a chosen target group.

 

There is a lot of truth in that. It is generally a problem of most people in the world that they basically don't show a good understanding of how human culture ought to relate to a finite planet.

Socially advanced peoples no longer see it as acceptable to wipe out whole groups of people in order to steal what they had, and for very good reason. Humanity has yet to take the next step and try to universally discourage new people being brought into the world both by overcoming the drive to reproduce and by voluntary behavioral restraint.

Western countries have some of the troubles that Egypt has. Egypt is suffering and struggling mainly because it is overpopulated. Western economies are suffering from population pressures to a lesser degree, yet enough to contribute greatly to the present joblessness. There are plenty of folks in the world willing to work for a smaller slice of that finite pie that is the physical planet.

I can't overlook greed as a factor, however. Greed can cause one person to gather a larger piece of the planet pie than they ought to, and way too often they end up wasting it gluttonously. --Best to you all.

 

This CRB Index. is a basket of 19 commodities, everything from energy (33% of the index weight) to aluminum, corn, hogs, gold and silver.

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Why are most things, stocks included, are going down?

Billy T´s quick answer: People are scared; paying down their debts and avoiding buying if they can.

Also oil production by OPEC is at the highest level since 2008 (31.62 million barrels per day.) due to increased production from Saudi Arabia, the recovery of the Libyan oil industry and increased production from Iraq. Plus, production is higher in the U.S., Canada and Russia, which alone have increased their production by 600,000 barrels a day year-over-year. The U.S. is now exporting more oil than ever before:

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This gives a new meaning to “Peak Oil.” (Production has peaked well above demand)
What Ben Bernanke fears most is an economy stagnating in deflation (as do most central banks). Why they have pumped out trillions of printing press money in the last couple of years. Yet politicians in several key nations (including the U.S.) seem deadlocked into a stalemate of stagnation and the German dominated ECB, with fresh memories of run-away inflation, seems fixated on austerity, even though unemployment rates in the PIIGS nations — Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain — are approaching or exceeding the 24.9% level that America saw at the very bottom of the Great Depression. In contrast, even China is easing – last week cut its benchmark interest rate by 50 basis points (half a percentage point) as if there were something wrong with 8% GDP growth rates.

Text above taken, with minor editing and some rearrangements from: http://www.uncommonwisdomdaily.com/...l-copper-and-other-commodities-14247?FIELD9=2

Sadly, nothing seems to work. Despite the flood of new cash economies are slowing and because of the European austerity, basic commodity prices are falling and most of Europe is already in recession. With almost certainty US will be soon too if QE3 is not forthcoming soon.

Austerity causes social chaos and floods of new printing press money will eventually lead to dollar collapse chaos. You can´t win, for losing but Ben will go down fighting, and take the dollar with him.

As the bible states: The sins of the fathers (those now living) will be visited (huge un-payable debts) on generations yet to come. The Devil´s tricks leading to our sins were well described more than150 years ago here: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2573119&postcount=1

 

Youth (25 or less) unemployment is above 50% in both Greece and Spain (and both are officially in recession, along with several others).

This and many other measures of economic state are available in and interactive map for European countries at: http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/business/euro-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I found it best to switch from often overlapping circles on the map to the bar chart alternative. Only country that seemed to be in good shape by all measures was Estonia, but they are not growing much. Do they use the Euro?

 

Later by edit:
As I was shutting the video down, I learned you can read full text by shutting video down and when asked if you want to leave page (box over the text) say no - stay on page and the text remains. Then you can skim to the interesting facts, see included graphs such as:

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with this associated text: "Overall, 1 in 6 Americans now receives some form of poverty aid." AND:

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with this earlier text: "After all, advances in medicine have cured or eliminated many of the problems workers had 50 years ago, right? And many of the backbreaking jobs of the 1960s are now automated... or done with machines or computers.
Yet the percentage of the American workforce that has convinced the government it is "too physically or emotionally handicapped to work"— and thus receives a handout from the government every month has gone from 1% of the workforce to an astonishing 5% of the workforce."

Go to: http://pro.stansberryresearch.com/1206CORRUPTN/LPSIN714/ and if wanting to hear video, turn volume down for at least 30 minutes while doing something else to avoid the self promotion, then back up as you get to the factual points that clearly show that for many white Americans it is economically better to not get married, collect government hand outs, than to take a "Big Mac" job. Note this is more true of blacks, but they wanted to avoid the complexities of racial discrimination etc. so only considered white American in their research.

The point is that the lower classes no longer have the work ethic they did 50 years ago and that the government makes net negative incentives that have destroyed what once made the US strong and great. The upper class, especially the top 1% have even worse attitudes. (Get my bonuses bigger now at share holder´s expense, etc.) For example, about five minutes are on details of what Steve Jobs did to the share holders of apple to make him self much richer - concluding that Jobs should have been sent to jail as he embezzled from share holders million with legal tricks (got back dating options etc. but did not exercise them as that would have been illegal, so he sold them back to Apple for many millions. etc.)

One of the facts that shocked me is now 41% of all births in the US are to unwed mothers. Marriage is no longer the norm. Part of this is due to the increased opportunity of women with good jobs seen in graph below (from Wiki, not the video):

Graph shows percent of work force that is employed. Blue is men, pink is women and black is average.

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Note also that men drop out of the work force to stay home and watch TV, etc. much more than they did 60 years ago mainly to ride free on the government´s gravy train. (13% of work force now grown to 30%) There are plenty of jobs they refuse to take to keep the hand outs coming even in Detroit! (Many Detroit land scaping firms can get workers, etc.) Some of this is due to more in college or retired, so study of the video looked at only those in 30 to 50 year group - more than three times more now are staying at home watching TV than working than 50 years ago. US work ethic is dead for most. "Get all you can for the least effort" now rules.

Reported is interesting university study which asked what was most important characteristic making a job attractive: 50 years ago leading the list was "meaningful work" now it is "shorter working hours" and "low probability of being fired." - Why government employees now out number more than the total employed in more than a dozen other areas (each of which I would have guessed alone have more workers than the government)!

Thread is on "Western economies" and above is only US related but briely report shows it is much worse in Europe - Nearly all think the government should care for them. Government employees shut down essential services if their gravy train is questioned, etc. Month long vacation (or more) are the norm, less than 40 hour work weeks is the norm, etc. US is becoming more European is why it too will soon collapse is point of the video.

 

The ultra wealthy don´t pay their taxes:

"... The world's super-rich had between $21 trillion and $32 trillion of wealth hidden in tax havens by the end of 2010, a new study says. The size of these unreported financial assets is equivalent to, or even larger than, the combined GDPs of the United States and Japan, representing up to $280 billion in lost tax revenues.

The study, titled "The Price of Offshore Revisited," was released Sunday by the advocacy group Tax Justice Network. ... The number of the global elite who parked their fortune overseas is fewer than 10 million people, or 0.14% of the global population, the report says. It also shows that major private banks such as UBS, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America and HSBC handled the most assets on behalf of the super-rich.

According to the group's 2011 Financial Security Index, which ranks nations and territories providing tax havens, Switzerland, the Cayman Islands, Luxembourg, Hong Kong and Singapore are among the biggest destinations. ..." From: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/23/business/super-rich-hidden-wealth-offshore/index.html?hpt=hp_mid

Billy T comment: The study could be wrong by a factor like two as to know how much is hidden surely is hard to do accurately, but exact amount is is not needed to know the rich are screwing the typical on-salary tax-paying American, whose real wealth is decreasing. Too bad that Joe American has gone soft so when the revolution comes, he will not actually make heads roll - bring out the guillotine as was done in the "good old days."

 

This happened because the process for applying for disability was liberalized, and because rising income inequality means that more and more workers will get disability at a higher rate of repayment than they used to:

http://www.nber.org/bah/fall06/w12436.html

Well, that's some nasty right-wing cant, right there.

Yep, you've clearly veered into the bullshit that is producerism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Producerism

No wonder neo-Fascist states like China appeal to you so much, with a worldview like that....

Wow, it is really kind of crazy to see you veering so firmly into wingnut territory. This is the kind of garbage I expect to hear from the likes of Gleen Beck or Rush Limbaugh. What happend to you?

 

I was just reporting some facts, posted by others, and university studies, government data on the decreasing fraction of the male work force that is employed, etc. ,which don´t cease to be facts by your calling them "nasty right-wing cant" "garbage" "wingnut territory" etc.

If one of more fact I quoted is wrong, identify it and preferably correct it too with your reference.

BTW, thanks for link to "producerism" - I had never heard of it. I think there is some truth to fact that some at the bottom of the economic pile have become lazy and expect government to support them, but they are a small fraction - most not supporting themselves never got an education that would allow them to in the modern world with little need for manual labor as they were born in poor neighborhoods with terrible schools and teachers* (all the poor neighborhood´s tax collections could support). I have many posts suggesting the US will not be able to compete with Asian countries that give good education to all their citizens. US´s educational system is designed to produce a few well educated elite and masses with math and science skill far below the typical Asian´s. That is not a POV you are likely to hear from Gleen Beck or Rush Limbaugh or even most well off Americans. "I got mine, to hell with you if you can´t get yours" is more likely. They don´t want to be taxed more to help pay for better schools and teachers in poor neighborhoods.

With few exceptions, I think "producerism" has the story basically correct about those at the top of the economic heap. For example, Warren Buffett with his promotion of the Buffett tax on the very rich seems to be an exception, but he also has "dirty hands." Like most of the super rich, he built factories in China, not the US (now own 11% of Chinese BYD motors etc.).

This export of manufacturing jobs is inherent in the US (and all capitalistic systems) systems when much lower wages are paid in some parts of the world - Of course those with means to do so will make jobs where the rate of return is several times higher than in the US and the markets are larger and unsaturated. (e. g. Chinese buyer of a new refrigerator is buying his first, not replacing his 18 year old one, etc.) With US lower performance levels in math and sciences (most go to poor schools) even the "brain work" is increasingly leaving (Indian IT experts etc. work for MicroSoft etc.).

* In some of the US´s worst schools a teacher can get raped or at least bitten by a rat. - So, of course, even if offered twice the salary paid in a wealthy neighborhood´s school, she will not agree to work there. I.e. with few exceptions inter city schools get the teachers who could not get a job in a good school.

To answer the thread´s question: Excessive greed and too little concern for those less well off.

 

Again you try to deflect into this "fact" issue, when the whole point is the interpretations you provide ("work ethic that made the country great" "people these days prefer to live off of the government gravy train" "government hand-outs make the poor not motivated to work"). The implication that it's a bad thing that the government is doing more to help out Americans who are too disabled to work, etc. The implication being, apparently, that the disabled should just suck it up and regard their hardship as a form of motivation.

Of course there are issues of simple fact involved as well - you are citing material from the well-known fraudseter Porter Stansberry, who has repeatedly been successfully sued for fraud, exactly in the form of internet newsletter containing info he knew to be false - but even if you stripped them out the ugly right-wing worldview would still be evident (the lamentations about the decline of marriage and segue from that into issues of women in the workforce, etc.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_Stansberry

Overall though, the fact that you'd respond to a complaint about your ideology by insisting on reading that as a challenge on a purely factual point indicates that your "fact" line is exactly a tactic.