SAM thats a poor inditement on the US. The only reason i can think of that a goverment would do this is if they were worried about persicution either by the goverment or the people if a certain position is expressed. As the US proclaimes itself as the "bastion of freedom" and free speach specifically, these sort of refuges are a real inditment on the way the US is currently
It isn't nearly so bad here that any US citizen (such as myself) who is opposed to the war in Iraq is intimidated into leaving the USA. The persecution in question is of a growing number within the non-officer class of servicepeople who wish to leave their military jobs before the end of an enlistment contract, because they don't want to fight in Iraq (or less often, Afghanistan). The blue-collar segment of the military does not enjoy the same respect as officers if members choose to resign, because enlistees are still to this day considered state property for the periods they have enlisted, like the conscripts of empires over the centuries. A friend of mine recently decided not to renew his enlistment, 3 years from retirement. He had been through 5 combat tours (4 in Iraq, 1 in Afghanistan) as an Explosive Ordinance Disposal specialist. He abandoned a lifetime pension, because they will keep sending him back for more. He has seen enough sacrifice, having served in a very dangerous role. He's seen many friends killed. He has decided that he's done enough, and that serving the last 3 years before retirement "isn't worth it, for me or my wife and kids". I am convinced that my friend has already more than earned his pension, and should be allowed to serve out his career elsewhere, which he would gladly do. The Army doesn't see it that way- he had the choice of rolling the dice in another tour, or giving up a significant pension that would have provided his family a lot of economic security. Anyway, I'm very glad he's back in one piece- we'll be skydiving together this weekend. He lost his pension, but at least he's alive and no fugitive. Although I don't know any deserters (they are mostly underground) I believe it to be true that in certain enlisted MOS/Rates/Job titles such as the infantry, it is very difficult to avoid specific combat, because the military establishment does not want any precedent for easy migration away from unpopular combat duty in cases of unpopular wars. So there are young USAmericans on the run in the Land of the Free, because they have turned away from fighting in wars they do not wish to fight. So the "war resisters" seeking asylum in Canada are not just any USAmericans who oppose the war. They are enlistees who are not permitted to contest their combat deployment to wars that they do not support. Officers may resign and depart the service without persecution- but the enlistees, who take the brunt of combat casualties, are an indentured underclass with reduced freedoms. In my own view, our combat forces should be truly volunteer for all non-emergency deployments. That is, our clear duty is to protect the nation in times of emergency, but: In the case of protracted campaigns, anyone who does not believe in the overall mission should be free to serve elsewhere or leave the service without persecution. I don't believe this would weaken our armed forces, or unreasonably constrain Administrations in their foreign campaigns. I believe we live in an age when an advanced society can thrive with every citizen free to honororably participate or not participate in particular theaters of combat.
There is a reason deserters of the military are punished for deserting you know, it's not like up and leaving a job at K-Mart. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Up and leaving your post could cost the lives of your military buddies. When you sign the dotted lines when joining the military, you should KNOW you may be put into a war, and if you can't handle it or don't like killing, you can always sign up as a conscious objector. And if you sign up thinking you can handle it, but can't later, that's what shrinks and councelors are for that the military provides. Left-wing "peace" demonstrators are sympathetic to current deserters (of the U.S. military) because they know it's a blow to the military and the "evil" U.S. Other's who are TRUE pacifists are also sympathetic, I have no problems with that, because they're motivated by morality and not politics.
Cazzo: "Left-wing "peace" demonstrators are sympathetic to current deserters (of the U.S. military) because they know it's a blow to the military and the "evil" U.S." I'm a left-wing peace demonstrator who recognizes it is a blow to our military to be bogged down in a needless war of domination in Iraq, that can neither succeed, not produce any benefit to the security of the USA. Our military readiness, and our strategic/economic interests will be enhanced when we get out of Iraq, and the sooner the better. Our unrealistic mission there, founded on lies, is not worth the life of one more soldier.
Absolute rubbish hype - unless you demonstrate complete subservience to your government and their agenda, you are a fucking commie just like what cazzo said :crazy:
Well, despite patel's sarcasm, we haven't had a terrorist attack in the US since 2001 which is the longest stretch in a very long time. But I know that many are not as afraid of terrorists as they are of the evil neocons.
So if German soldiers upon finding out about the treatment of Jews by their own government and military, deserted the army and went over to the Allies, you think they are being immoral? You have presented a timeless contextless moral stance which fits perfectly with the 'I was just following orders' defense that is generally looked down on. As far as left pacifists vs. 'true' pacifists... The right wing is always trying to say that the left wing has no morals. The right wing for some reason finds it painful to notice that the left wing CLEARLY has morals just that they are different than the right wings. Even those members of the left who are against every war - remember this is certainly not all of them - AND critical of the US in a general way are critical from a moral standpoint based on what they consider immoral foreign policty and use of the military currently and in times past. They ALWAYS explain their position in moral terms. You just have different values or different information or trusted authorities on which you base your opinions.
Sorry - engaging TAKE THE wORLD SERIOUSLY FOR A MOMENT Mode ...bzzz hummm........ But neither have you caught any terrorists - so the reason why you havent had any terrorist attacks is...........?
Indeed - who and what the hell are they http://thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1123 http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1866720&postcount=762
Doubt it will pass, reminds me of when people dodged the draft in the 60s,70s, they came to Canada. So many people come to Canada running from something. The most Ironic thing about the U.S and Canada is: Americans will tell you how "free" and "Liberated" they are, loudly. Canadians simply live it.
Indeed, Canada is one of the freest and most transparent nations on Earth. I have a solid respect for Canadians. Friendly, outgoing, proud without being annoying flag wavers. Most importantly, Canadians generally practice what they calmly preach. ~String
It's one year short of the gap between the last two Islamic Jihadist attacks on US ground. That's due in late 2008 or 2009. So we're right on schedule, if that crowd is still operating - especially if someone wants to trash the first year of the next President, or disrupt the election, or solidify the establishment of Homeland Security and related changes in the Federal governance of the country. The Canadians are, seemingly, aware of some of these issues and how they may affect the influx of various kinds of refugees.
CSIS, RCMP and CSE averted the terrorist attack in Toronto, in such a way I bet hardly anyone in the world knows how close we came to losing the CN Tower. I bet hardly anyone knows what those letters stand for. Canada currently gathers most of western intelligence(passive), i'm willing to bet. It was that way in the 80s and considering how much CSE has grown in 20 years since, it's probably an even larger ratio. No one expects Canadians to spy. Quiet - that is the way to usually describe Canada. Very quiet.
Anyone who seriously opposes US actions should fly to Jordan, drive to Iraq, and blow themself up in a crowd of Iraqi school girls. Otherwise it's just empty words with no meaning.
Them cats is a good question We may have caught a few terrorists, but they're not at Gitmo. Please see my recent comments regarding Guantanamo detainees, including the following excerpt from a 2006 episode of This American Life: _____________________ Notes: Chicago Public Radio. "Habeas Schmabeas". This American Life #310. March 10, 2006. http://thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1123 PDF transcript: http://thisamericanlife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf
Cardinal Fang! Fetch ... the Comfy Chair! I am forced to disagree until such time as I see conclusive evidence that we have employed that most dreadful of enhanced interrogation techniques ... the Comfy Chair.
