Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    Explain.
    :yawn:​
     
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  3. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    What evidence have you shown?
     
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  5. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Your figures are grossly off. 21 minutes for a Galaxy class starship at absolute best to level the crust. Remember it takes 15 seconds to reload launchers properly after an Alpha Strike. plus you would need enough torpedoes to fire 66 spreads of 6 torpedoes from each launcher. Vessels do not carry that many. Now again this is just to level the surface as the attack on the Founder world visuals suggest.



    Okay first of all big difference between BDZ and level a crust. BDZ are fnot fanfic they are canon material approved by Lucas. A BDZ destroys all life on the planet, destroys all trace of civilization, destroys ALL natural resoruces meaning everything form water to atmosphere, tousable land. the result is a lifeless mudball that is nearly impossible to terraform. That is a whole different ball park than just levelling the surface.
     
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  7. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    I have given plenty of evidence again and again. My evidence is Star Wars canon material and Star Trek canon material. You know those two pesky things that invalidate the entire trek argument.
     
  8. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    1,265
    Ah yes, but did Lucas even know what he was doing when he approved of it? Just like that Ep. II AotC book that you love oh so dearly.
     
  9. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    PTM
    - Droidekas need I say more
    - when R2 fixed the shields on the naboo cruiser suddenly the very accurate bolts that had been picking off the other droids were stopped.
    - The gungan theater shields.
    - The shields on the Trade Federation Freighter/Cruiser that the fighter weapons were not able to penetrate.

    AOTC:
    -Shields on the carriers, notice they were only truly vulnerable when they had to land or take off.
    -Droidekas

    ROTJ:
    -Droidekas
    -Ray Shield trap
    -Shields on the mining facility

    ANH:
    -Shields on the ISD and the Tantive IV at one point a turbolader bolt struck something well above the Tantive and then the bolt splintered and refracted down inot the ship.
    -Shields on the Death star hangar bays
    -Shields on the Millenium falcon
    -Shields on the fighters.

    ESB:
    -Shields on the Hoth
    -Shields on the Millinium Falcon
    -Shields on the ISD's only one vesell even took moderate damage from asteroids and it still survived. However three ISD were destroyed by the shields of the Executor.

    ROTJ:
    -Shields on the Deaht Star and Endor.
    -Shields on all capital ships.
    -Shields on Rebel fighters.



    see all the times there are shields and 99% of the time they work perfectly, however it that 1% of the time they are knocked down that is the dramatic moment of the story.
     
  10. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Does it matter it is approved thus is canon and thus you can just choke on it.
     
  11. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    OMG, someone started another debate.. Will this thread ever..ever end ? .
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    1) Trek can go Warp 8 reverse to warp 9.7 forwards and still not experience any appreciable shudder... a mere vibration if that!
    2) That's lovely... it applies to anything how?
    3) What vessels... you mean the odd x-wing or two? Come now scott... given how many TL's that thing had... it should have killed them all if they were half as good as you claim.
    4) Actually... it was a disruptor bolt. The Scimitar never seemed to fire Photon Torpedoes at all... you know, considering that photons are red. Plasma torps, on the other hand, are red or green (TOS or TNG)

    The Picard maneuver is to give the impression of a ship being in two places at once... duh. It's a confusion ploy, not a tactical maneuver.

    Janeway didn't invalidate it at all. She simply altered it. After all, the future fed fleet was still there when Voyager arrived home, wasn't it. Ooh, got you didn't I!
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    The kinetic energy output of a scramjet is NOT in the same realm as a .50 cal... consider that the energy of the scramjet is spread across a large area, and that the energy of a .50 cal is concentrated at the TIP of the bullet.

    Now, do that with a phaser strike... see what I mean?
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    ... Wow scott... just wow... you have impressed me


    ...


    with your stupidity...

    The Sovereign class has thrusters and impulse engines FAR larger than the Galaxy class's, yet it is LIGHTER than the Galaxy class... it is also ARMED TO THE TEETH compared to the Galaxy class. It can pull maneuvers that would rival an Akira class! Oh, and the inertial dampeners wouldn't be shuddering... even at a mere 50%.

    It takes the Sovereign about 4 seconds to fully reload the Q-torp launcher after an alpha strike. Photon torps (the rear secondary launcher) reloaded after 4 shots in under 2 seconds... so either it holds an ass load of torps, or it reloads quick. Where the fuck you got 15 seconds from is beyond me.

    Fine... photon and quantum torps wouldn't work. Transphasic torpedo up the ass. Better yet, we'll just deploy the Ablative Armor and RAM YOU AT .75c USING THE IMPULSE ENGINES. Sound good? Good! Now stuff yer theories or back them with facts!

    You say you have quoted facts already. Prove it. Do it again. If you did it once, it should be EASY to do it again, right?
     
  15. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Really? I wasn't aware of this. Perhaps you would wish to tell me where you heard it?





    Except that we never see GG level firepower from any of the ships in Star Wars. Using calcs from lower canon is not only dishonest, but is also just plain wrong as it contradicts the firepower we see on screen.

    Also, I call bullshit. You are manipulating quotes. They did not say 30% of the surface or any such nonsense, the Romulan said "...30% of the planetary crust has been destroyed."
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  16. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Really? Care to name them? Because I remember you ignoring my posts when they defeated your points before.



    No it isn't. It's one of the slowest because it has the largest mass. That's why the Excelsior, Defiant, and Soverign can fly rings around them, because they are meant for speed and have less mass.

    What are you talking about? 80% of the shots we see are hits. Just because a few Klingons had some accuracy problems in a year old Klingon Bird of Prey isn't an example of Star Trek accuracy and claiming it to be is dishonest.

    So something that is twice the length and height of a GCS has ten times the mass?

    Yeah, rather than tactics. Sadly, the Federation has that and far superior firepower.

    Don't worry, I'm sure you'll be able to have ISDs go mono a mono with shuttles.

    That was only the Galaxy class series that proved to have that problem. The other ships are insanly tough. As for why the CCS acted that way, it was likely given just how advanced and multi-platformed that ship was. It was basicly a city flying in space.

    Which are pretty damn tough, but again, that hardly matters when a phaser hits the ship, as a large part of that ship is fucked.

    :bugeye:

    Really? Because I recall in ST 9 that they ejected the warpcore and were still able to use shields and weapons.

    Yeah, because we all know a that small warships that carry the firepower to slag a planet is far weaker than fighters that carry gernade level torps (Phantom Menace, when Anakin hits the generator with two proton torps) or are incapable of scratching the surface of rocks(Empire Strikes Back)...


    Prove it.

    Which is why the ISDs eventually found Han...oh, wait.

    Except the UFP would know where Han was hiding by using logic to determermin that he's using the magnetic pole to block their sensors. Rather than assume that he has technology that would be physically impossible to deploy.

    Except there is no evidence of GG level impacts. Just your claim that they do. Well, prove it.

    Prove it.

    Prove that HTLs are this powerful.

    Your numbers are off. Lets work with real figures, shall we? Okay, we have 1.5% of the destruction of a planet and an 80% hit rate. So that would be (1.5*100) divided by 80 = 1.875% of planetary destruction.

    Congrats, your fleet has now been vaporised.


    Or perhaps becuase the UFP has been produing the Excelsior for about a hundred years and the Nebula for at least 10+ years?


    Now if only ET was a part of Star Wars rather than just a cameo appearence...

    No, I say there is 20 ships because the people in the fucking episode SAID THERE WERE 20 ****ing SHIPS!

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    Really? Care to give me a quote? A screencap? ANYTHING?!

    Wow, so good to know that the Romulans can't read their own instruments.

    My God, were you beaten over the head as a child? It was stated that 30% of the planetary crust was destroyed. You can't just say no because you don't like it. And again, the majority of that damage would be underwater and caused by phasers, so there wouldn't be much of a lightshow.

    Or rather because you can't contest the fact that there were 20 ships and they destroyed the 30% of the planetary crust. Oh, and prove that they were modified warheads.

    Um, no. You made a mistake in that calculation. You increased the time index from four seconds to 15. There is no evidence of a reload time that long. At most it takes is about four seconds. So at most that would just double my calculations to about eight minutes.

    Also, your calculations also fall flat becuase we only see about a dozen or so torps launched at the planet's surface. That would be closer to 48 torps, or even doubling the figure would still put it to 96, which is well within UFP ranges.

    And again, most of the damage was likely caused by the phasers and disruptors. And they have a lot more of those than torps.


    Oh, ha ha Scott. You knew that was a simple error in typing. Given how late it was, that is to be expected. Good job in proving how desperate you are to sound smart.

    That's because the ST forces don't go around vaporising worlds just because they don't like them.
     
  17. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    No you don't. You just say things and hten expect us to believe it as if you're entitled to such a thing. You say that UFP has a max of about a hundred megatons, but you never rpove it. You say that the Empire has GG level firepower, but you haven't proven it. You say that the fleet in TDiC only leveled 30% of the planet's surface, but this contradicts what was stated in the episode. You claim that the Defiant is a fighter that has pathetic firepower, despite the fact that it can slag a planet and Imperial fighters can barely burn asteroids.

    You say a lot of stuff, but you present no evidence. You just say stuff. That is not debating, that is stating an opinion.
     
  18. Hellblade8 Valued Senior Member

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    1,099
    Where did this bullshit come from? Imperial torps are not shielded. Their appearence is a rip off of the photon torp because Lucas didn't want to think up something more original.

    Sadly, the games are more accurate than the books.:m:
     
  19. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    • Ship to ship shields I mean, sure we've all seen the droidekas, they need to drop their shields to walk and roll. The naboo cruiser really had shitty shields if the sheild generator can be hit from the OUTSIDE of the shields.
    • Gungan Sheilds don't really give anyone a tactical advantage, they could just be advanced through. If your worrid about getting creamed by a bunch of frogs with funny grenades, send in a bomber or something.
    • A well, I see explosions on the hull, but we see no damage. SW ship shields do something here.

    We really don't have proof on the carriers, I guess I'll just have to take your word for this, lets assume their as bad as Imp sheilds.

    • Ray Shields? Funny name, at least Lucas was original this time.
    • On the mining facility? Where?
    • Did you mean RotS?

    • So wait, your telling me SW shields actually deflect fire onto the ship thats using them? :wtf:
    • There really is a difference between a Shield and a forcefield. Yet the forcefield let the MF escape...
    • I don't really have an argument with that, although it seem that after a few TIEs attacked it that it was suffering system failures. Not nearly as good as a good ol' Defiant.
    • NO! We have not seen so much as a TIE or X-Wing surviving a hit from anything!

    • Once again the shield generator can be destroyed from the outside of the protective shielding. This always annoyed me when I watched ESB.
    • Haven't we talked about this before?
    • Dude, stop making up stuff, an asteroid frikin blew up the bridge tower of an ISD.

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    • Maybe, but yet again, the generator is OUTSIDE of the shield. I'd just take my ship, and use a planetary assault on the shield generator. Say bye-bye to DS2.
    • All I'm seeing is turbolaser fire damage hulls and insane rebel pilots effectivly going kamekazi on the SSD bridge.
    • Once agian, anything that hits a SW fighter, destroys a SW fighter. "I hear that SW pilots have a low life expectnancy."

    No, we have never seen effective shields on-screen, unless as you may reply to this, "that now the shields were down on the ships" or something like that. All I can say is SW is one big fat plot-device.
     
  20. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    Ha ha ha.
     
  21. USS Exeter unamerican american Registered Senior Member

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    Look at yourself, you rip on Star Trek with unreasonable and fake information praising Star Wars. You ignore any statistic that isn't about either topic (i.e, physics and scientific reasoning) and you biasly follow SWs mechanics simply because "Lucas said so." Who really is the one who should be thinking? To many people on this thread, you have not proven a thing to them other than that you are extremly unreasonable.
     
  22. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    I know.

    -Photon Torpedo
    -P'r'oton Torpedo

    I know both Photons and Protons are real things, but too coincindential.

    As well with Deflector Shields. ST was ther first franchise to use them.
     
  23. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    Also here is a little domonstration of the effectiveness of ST sheilds.

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    Okay, this team of Bio-Ships here focusing all of their energy can destoy a planet.

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    Now notice here as a bio-ship is giving chase to Voyager.

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    It fires, seeing that each ship has at the very least, 1/8 the power to destroy a planet, it hit Voyager. The shields deflected it, and the ship still had enough power to go to warp.
     
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