Military service as a mitigating factor

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Sep 20, 2007.

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Should military service in Iraq be a mitigating factor in this case?

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    30.8%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%
  3. If anything, it increases culpability

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other (I deserve a vote, but really need a dodge on this)

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    From The Stranger, September 5, 2007:

    Now, in the first place, I'm not complaining that Rodolph was not charged. This is one of those pure accidents of stupidity. We all have those moments, and if things go horribly awry, someone loses an eye, or a hand, or, in this case, a life. There is no question that Rodolph conducted himself as well as he could in the wake of the tragedy, and no question that this was an accident. (Really, could I roll a 23-lb. rock down a mountainside and actually hit a target? Probably not.)

    But it seems odd to me that one's service in Iraq should be a factor in the decision to not prosecute. Humility in the face of such a stupid accident (e.g., "extreme remorse"), lack of intent, and honorable conduct in the aftermath are all reasonable and proper considerations. But how, specifically, does service in Iraq make a difference? Should recent military (wartime) service really be a mitigating factor? It seems irrelevant. I mean, if I really want to split the hair, I might even be able to build an argument that it increases culpability, but let's not be ridiculous here.

    Okay, we can be ridiculous. I'll include it in the poll, but I won't make the argument.
    _____________________

    Notes:

    Schmader, David. "Last Days". TheStranger.com, September 5, 2007. See http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=309688
     
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  3. shichimenshyo Caught in the machine Registered Senior Member

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    5,110
    Poor guy is going to feel horrible for the rest of his life.


    I love the stranger!
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    He might get over it at some point. I don't think he'll ever erase it, and it sounds strange even to my ear to say that I hope he doesn't. But I prefer the depth of humanity to sociopathy, and would hope that the burden can have its effect without torturing too greatly.

    Usually, when posting from The Stranger, I refer to it as Seattle's best newspaper. I tend to actually believe it true. Of course, if it went daily, it would probably be neither free nor as good, so we're stuck with the Times and P-I. And, of course, the Tribune, but to be honest, I can't recall the last time I read it.
     
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  7. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    Yes.
    Being a cop or fireman are also considered. It generally shows what kind of character you are when you are willing to risk your life for others.
     
  8. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    yes I do think military service should be a mitigating factor
     
  9. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Not a helluva lot of difference between this guy's stupidity and the Oklahoma police officer's stupidity is there? You ranted and raved for days about that one, here you're waving it off as an accident. From this and that thread, I can only conclude that you're prejudiced against cops ...ain't no other excuse for it.

    I can only imagine that if the guy had been a cop, you'd have accused him of malicious murder or, at the very least, vicious manslaughter ....and recommended a minimum of life in prison without parole.

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    As to this guy's military service as a factor ...why not? It's just one more of many such "community/country" services that might have some significance to show his basic character and morality and honesty.

    Could you shoot a 9mm handgun into the air and hit a little kid in a pond a few hundred yards away ...when you couldn't even see the little kid?

    Baron Max
     
  10. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479

    cept the cop your refering to went above and beyond the normal realm of stupidity
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Subtle differences, Max, can be significant. You ought to start a topic about it.

    You're actually edging toward what I called, in the topic post, ridiculous. I knew I could count on you.

    Perhaps people should consider 23-lb. rocks in the same context as a device designed specifically for killing. You ought to start a topic about that.
     
  12. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Can't answer the points I made, huh, Tiassa? ...LOL!

    Baron Max
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    I'll answer them in your topics, when you post them.
     
  14. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    Yeah there is. A cop is trained in gun safety. I don't know of many people who are trained in rock/cliff safety. The guy looked over the cliff and sent the rock over. He didn't see that the guy was climbing the face of the cliff.
     
  15. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    So people who are trained can't be stupid and have accidents? People are trained in driving cars, but they still have accidents.

    And the cop in Oklahoma didn't see the little boy either.

    No, sorry, Orleander, from this thread/topic, I think it's safe to say that Tiassa is simply prejudiced against cops ...perhaps against any legitimate authority.

    Baron Max
     
  16. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    That's absurd. Certainly wiht police there are people drawn to the work for all sorts of other reasons, many of them not good ones: likes to control people, like power, want to seem tough.....
     
  17. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    No. It has nothing to do with the crime. Perhaps in sentencing. I mean I feed the poor my whole life and then get pissed off one day about my financial situation and rob a bank, killing some teller in the process, I should still be convicted. The judge can take into account my good deeds in the sentencing.

    But 'being in the army' is not necessarily a good deed. Someone joins up for the free education and is shocked to find themselves posted to Iraq. I don't see where that plays into leniency. A civilian who dove into frezing water and pulled out the kid. Sure. The es-soldier who dove in freezing water to save the kid. Sure. A factor.

    Also we don't really know how innocent the guy is. He could have been trying to fuck with the climber, scare him and then freaked out at what happened. I am not saying he should be convicted, but it seemed strange that everyone assumes it was simply an accident. We don't know. Which makes him legally innocent in my book, but not necessarily morally innocent, and we have no idea if he really will feel terrible for the rest of his life as one person said.

    Look at defendents in court. They often look like rosy-cheeked innocents and then they go out and do whatever again.
     
  18. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    I've forgotten when I took that rock/hill safety course, but I guess I must have, because oddly enough I know that wasn't the smartest thing to do.
     
  19. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    No, defiantly not. He tossed the rock not because of some emotional issue dealing with the war but because he wanted to see what would happen if he did push the rock, like start a landslide or the like. I really don't know if he knew their was someone down at the bottom of where he threw it but if he did I'd say he would be up on at least manslaughter charges.
     
  20. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    there wasn't anyone at the bottom. The man he hit was rock climbing. (it was on the news).

    And yeah, maybe he should be brought up on charges. But it still should be a mitigating factor. Isn't being a career criminal a mitigating factor in cases? Well, so should this.
     
  21. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    At the bottom or climbing up still the man should not be pushing boulders off of cliffs if he doesn't know there's anyone there or not. Being in the service isn't a means of avoiding punishment in this case. I don't believe he will be punished anyway but only think we should let the courts and jury decide.I bet we never find out like with all other news events like this one.
     
  22. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    No, you'd have to have some evidence he knew, then he might be up on those charges.
     
  23. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264

    That's why I stated that a Judge or jury should be the ones to decide .
     

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