The FBI reported Monday that hate crimes against Muslims and people who appear to be of Middle East ethnicity surged in 2001, "presumably as a result of the heinous incidents that occurred on Sept. 11" of that year. The report found that incidents targeting people, institutions and businesses identified with the Islamic faith increased from 28 in 2000 to 481 in 2001. Muslims previously had been among the least-targeted religious groups. The report did not say how many occurred after Sept. 11. http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=1767 Six days after the terrorist attacks, the Council on American-Islamic Relations reported more than 300 incidents of harassment and abuse in the six days after the terrorist attacks, ranging from families being spat and yelled at, "Go back to your country," to assaults on people and businesses. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.hate.crimes/ Slavery should be illegal. It is not practiced in any Muslim country. Islam allows the capturing of prisoners of war, which is referred to in Arabic terminology as slave of the state, yet this is far different from how the Americans and Europeans treated their black slaves and this person was recognized to have the right to pay the state for freedom and also to teach or help the Islamic state to gain freedom. It's against all ethics and morals and directly contradicts the Quran. I am personally aware of his teachings, this is a lie. This page does not prove your point at all. Kaffireen are impure only to enter Holy mosque and not allowed for Muslim women only. You should have read the books of Hadith of Bukeri and Muslim. It's quite evident you try to take a vague quote, strip it of its points and present your own view on a phrase you copied from a website. The Prophet Muhammad (s) himself said, 'Whoever hurts a people of book (christian, jew) wrongfully, has also hurt me.' Honesty might be too much for you. Peace.
Proof, please, not unsubstantiated nonsense. I've illustrated time and again where your posts are nothing more than fluff, including the "pregnant muslim woman killed by the evil Christians in Chicago" ruse. How is this a cultural war against islam? I agree that there are many things in islamic culture which need fixing, but where is your proof of this motivation? By contrast, mosques, national news organizations in the Middle East and other organs of neo-fascist propaganda regularly spew out vile generalizations of Western secular society. But no such attacks have occurred. Where is this increase in hate crimes against muslims from the cartoons? You have no statistics to back you up: if anything, they show the opposite trend. And it's 1.2 billion, not 1.7. Allah is indeed derived from a Ka'aba moon-god. What should we say about that? The Ayatollah did think that it was all right to derive sexual pleasure from infants. Do you blame me for his writings? Kufr and urine are listed as unclean things. Should we be honoured to be on the same page of verboten quatsch as defaecation?? It's astounding - your culture insults ours, degrades our very existence, and then demands an apology from us when we take offense. Do you expect us to??? What in the hell does race have to do with this? But neither is the ummah (muslim world) allowed to kill apostates and other innocents. You may wish it were, but we take a dim view of that, and of the 'high honours' you heap upon us by comparing us to urine. And when people reject islamic rule, convert from islam and want secularism in the government and institutions, what then? The answer is easy: You want to kill them. Which proves my view of your system. Tell me: when all individuals in the islamic state are islamic, what then? Where will you turn to next? I imagine I can guess. And when we say "no" and refuse the spread of your religion - what then? History suggests a probable chain of action by the ummah. Laughable. Egypt just now has finally posted a law that - despite being worthless in practice - might allow Christians to rebuild their churches and you're telling me that jizya has been used for the support of Christianity in Egypt. Total, utter, bollocks. A contemptible lie. Note, too, the phrase "non-Muslim areas" she uses. In other words: Kufr ghettos. Go to hell, Diamond. Geoff
why not argue my links then? also by Non-Muslim areas I mean every country where Muslims are not a majority. I dont need you to give a fake commentary and implicate things to me which i never said. As brian and mountainhare have proved, you are full of fluff, not me. Go wash your hood.
You said that the cartoons were responsible for attacks. Where are these attacks? No one doubts that the islamic attack of 9/11 resulted in anger. Both economic slavery and actual slavery are practiced in islamic nations. Really? How many black Middle Easterners are there? I've never seen even one. Seems they all vanished. I wonder why. Then why did he say it? Translate the page, if you can. Oh, so kaffir can marry muslim women and enter a mosque, then? Because this is exactly what we're talking about: considering non-muslims on par with urine. You tell me how your viewpoint differs precisely with that of myself and the other posters here. Go on. Maybe you consider us all to be more like "sparkling urine". Your cite means that you should wash after touching a non-believer the same as if you stuck your hand in a jar of urine. Who would be offended by that? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Cite your quotation, if it's truthful. It's certainly exceeded your requirements, anyway. "By any means necessary", indeed. Geoff
WHAT links? You said the cartoons were devised to increase attacks on muslims. Prove it then. Find some links. Oh, so once muslims are a majority, the human rights of everyone else go out the window? Nice. You're damaged best by quoting things you HAVE said. Show where, then. They proved NOTHING, and they're a hundred times the arguer you are. I'm not the bigot, Diamond. Ladies first. Geoff
From 2001? You said that the cartoons promoted hatred of muslims hence my reply. Are you really suprised that after the 9/11 attacks some people acted out thier anger? Given the circumstances I think the reaction while detestable was understandable and rather reserved. Compare it to riots embassy burnings and the killing of over 100 people by muslims the world over as a result of cartoons in Denmark. Claim Negation of the claim Again just because you say so doesn't negate what he wrote. What does it say? He makes no distinction we are on the same list of unclean things as piss and shit. He said "It is not improbable that kaffir are clean but they are best avoided" Bukhari and muslim are not Ali Sistani, the quote is not vague it is in black and white on his website The sayings of the prophet that contradict this are too long for me to gointo here, mostly from Bukhari and Muslim. Not a problem at all. Irony
not true. give proof. Yemen, Oman, Southern Saudia. Arabs are mostly brown, not white. How many blacks in China? It has nothing to do with this argument. Its concerning wives. Maybe you believe we think this, but you are wrong. Your views are that of bigots who promote violence and hatred of others like the makes of these cartoons. No, you dont have to wash hands after touching Kaffir, this is a lie. Kaffir are human beings like Muslims, some of them are better than some of our Muslims. The Quotation is an authentic hadith from Sahih Bukhari in the chapter title Treatment of Ahlul Kitab. ... ok whatever Peace
Diamondheart is Sudan a Muslem State, then explaine this?Slave Trade Thrives in Sudan Arab Masters Can Do as They Please By KARIN DAVIES MADHOL, Sudan (AP) - Stacks of money pass from the Christian foreigner to the Muslim trader, an exchange anxiously watched by a 13- year-old girl with diamonds of sweat on her brow. The Sudanese trader, his lap buried by currency worth $13,200, waves carelessly to free his merchandise - 132 slaves. Akuac Malong, the young Dinka girl, is among them. She has spent seven years - more than half her life - enslaved by an Arab in northern Sudan. Her brilliant smile belies the beatings, near-starvation, mutilation and attempted brainwashing she endured. ``I thought it would be better to die than to remain a slave,'' Akuac says. Trafficking in humans has resurged with civil war in Africa's largest and poorest country, said John Eibner of Christian Solidarity International, a humanitarian group that bought Akuac's freedom. For all but a decade since Sudan's independence in 1956, southern rebels, mainly black Christians and followers of tribal religions, have fought for autonomy from the national government in Khartoum, which is dominated by northern Arabs. The southerners believe the north is trying to impose Islam and the Arabic language and to monopolize Sudan's wealth. Since the rebellion resumed 14 years ago, fighting, famine and disease have killed an estimated 1.5 million Sudanese - more than died in the genocides and civil wars in Rwanda or Bosnia. More than 3 million people have fled or been forced from their homes. Much of the fighting on the government side is done by local militias. Unpaid, their bounty is as old as war itself - slaves. Sudan's radical Islamic leaders encourage soldiers to take slaves as their compensation, according United Nations investigators and the U.S. State Department. Young women and children are the most valuable war booty. Eibner said old people are beaten and robbed while young men are killed because they cannot be trained into useful, harmless slaves. ``According to the Khartoum's regime ideology of jihad, members of this resistant black African community - be they men, women or children - are infidels, and may be arbitrarily killed, enslaved, looted or otherwise abused,'' Eibner said. The Sudanese government denies condoning slavery, insisting the practice persists because holding prisoners for ransom is a tradition rooted in tribal disputes. No side has a claim on morality in this war. The rebel Sudan People's Liberation Army has been accused of forcibly inducting teen-age boys into its ragtag army. But the southern blacks do not take Arab prisoners for slaves. Paul Malong Awan, a regional rebel commander, said enslavement is a government tactic to weaken the morale and military might of the south. Many of the blacks taken away are Dinkas, a million-member tribe that is the biggest ethnic group in southern Sudan. Dinkas are vulnerable because they predominate in northern Bahr el Ghazal, a region that is close to the front between north and south. Christian Solidarity International estimates tens of thousands of black slaves are owned by Arabs in northern Sudan. The Swiss-based charity has made more than a dozen risky, clandestine bush flights to southern Sudan to redeem 800 slaves since 1995, most recently in Madhol, 720 miles southwest of Khartoum. Some criticize its work Alex de Waal, of the London-based group African Rights, said that by paying large sums to free slaves, the Swiss charity undercuts Dinkas living in the north who do the same secretive work for a fraction of the cost. Eibner countered: ``There is no evidence to suggest that our work has undermined efforts to redeem abducted women and children. In fact, Dinka elders encourage us to press ahead with our activities.'' Gaspar Biro, a researcher for the U.N. Commission on Human Rights for Sudan, has cited ``an alarming increase'' in ``cases of slavery, servitude, slave trade and forced labor'' since February 1994. ``The total passivity of the government can only be regarded as tacit political approval and support of the institution of slavery,'' he said. A U.S. State Department report said accounts it received on the taking of slaves in the south ``indicates the direct and general involvement'' of Sudan's army and militias ``backed by the government.'' The centuries-old tensions between Arabs and blacks in Sudan are linked to slaving expeditions by Arabs to the upper Nile, a trade that the 19th century explorer David Livingstone called ``an open sore on the world.'' Akuac's mother, Abuong Malong, sobs when she sees her daughter for the first time in seven years. ``It's like she's been born again.'' She recognizes her only from her straight, square teeth. ``She was very small when she was taken, her features have changed, but she came back with the same spirit.'' Recalling that traumatic day, Mrs. Malong says they were fetching water when Arab militiamen on camels and horses thundered into their village, Rumalong. The raiders began shooting at the clusters of mud and wattle huts and rounding up cows and goats. ``I was running with Akuac for the trees when a horseman grabbed her,'' Mrs. Malong says. ``I was afraid that if I chased the horseman, he would kill me.'' Akuac and her older brother were tied to horsebacks and taken north with more than a dozen others from their village, a short walk southeast of Madhol. The women and older children had to carry the booty of their captors. In Kordofan, Akuac was sold to an Arab who made her wash clothes, haul water, gather firewood and help with cooking. She survived on table scraps, and slept in the kitchen. ``I was badly treated,'' Akuac says. Her master also tried to make her a Muslim - taking her to mosque and giving her the Arabic name of Fatima. But Akuac says she maintained her Christian faith, praying and singing hymns in secret and never forgetting her true name. ``My name is my name and nobody can change that.'' She does bear scars - in the local Muslim tradition, she was forcibly circumcised with her master's daughters when she was 11. ``It was very brutal. It is strange to our culture,'' Akuac says. ``The master told me, `If I don't circumcise you, I will have to kill you because you will still hold the ideas of your people, and you will try to escape.''' Her heart is scarred, too. Her older brother, Makol, was killed two years ago at age 13 while trying to escape. Another returnee, Akec Kwol Kiir, who is in her 40s, says she was repeatedly raped by four soldiers who took her north. She ended up in a camp where slaves were bought and sold. ``They treated us like cattle,'' she says. Her Arab master insisted that she, too, be circumcised. She refused, and was brutally slashed. Her ear is notched and her chin and neck scarred. Kwol finally submitted. ``Otherwise, they would have killed me. Because I was a slave, they had the right to do whatever they wanted to me,'' she says. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Deng, Former Sudanese Slave, Human Rights Activist Submitted by admin on 21 June, 2005 - 13:02. Victims of Jihad 2005 | Sub-Saharan Africa I wish to open my remarks by expressing my profound gratitude to the International Humanist and Ethical Union, the Association for World Education, and the Association of World Citizens for their invitation to me to address this conference at the Palais des Nations in Geneva. A symposium on “Victims of Jihad” could not be more important or urgent. Let me be very clear: this meeting is addressing the worst evil presently confronting the world. Jihad is on the march across the globe, and the people of the Sudan have experienced its cruelty more than any other group on earth. It is also fitting, if only in the most blackly comic way, that this conference coincides with the meeting of the 61st Session of the UN Commission on Human Rights, a body whose purpose is to uphold the rights and dignity of all people, and yet it has among its members some of the most inhumane regimes on earth, among them the genocidal slave jihadists of Khartoum. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to address you, and not only or primarily on my own behalf, but far more importantly on behalf of my people, the Southern Sudanese victims of Islamization, Arabization and enslavement at the hands of the tiny Arab minority in my country. Through my presence here you have given voice to millions of voiceless victims; you have made the invisible visible; you have helped me break the silence that has surrounded the destruction of my people. My name is Simon Aban Deng. I am from Sudan. I am a Shiluk by tribe. I am a Christian by religion. I belong to a people who have been subjected to mass murder, slavery, systematic rape, religious persecution, enforced starvation, dislocation, exile. We are the victims of genocide, both physical and cultural. We have been targeted for annihilation as human beings and as members of a culture. These miseries did not fall upon us from the sky; we have been and remain the victims of the radical jihadist regime in Khartoum. The scale of our losses has been enormous in the two genocides perpetrated by the Islamists – two, not one. Starting in 1955, the year before independence was granted by the British, up until 1973, 1.5 million Southern Sudanese Christians were slaughtered by the Arab/Muslim dominated government in Khartoum. From 1983 until just 3 months ago when a peace treaty was brokered by the United States, we Southern Sudanese lost 2 million more to what Khartoum calls a holy war against the infidels. Yes, I am an infidel according to their definition. I think many of you are as well. We black “infidels” in the South, Christians and other non-Muslims, refused to be ruled by Islam, and we refused to be Arabized. Our only offense was our determination to remain faithful to our religion and to honor our African cultures. For these “crimes” The National Islamic Front regime has committed genocide against us. Not only has that genocide produced the largest body-count of murdered innocents since the Nazis and the work of Joseph Stalin’s followers, but it has also produced the largest population of refugees anywhere on earth since the Second World War. I am standing before you today, ladies and gentlemen, a victim of Sudanese Arab enslavement in Sudan. I was a slave. I am not ashamed to say it. When I was nine year’s old, my village was raided by Arab troops in the pay of Khartoum. As we ran into the bush to escape I watched as childhood friends were shot dead and the old and the weak who were unable to run were burned alive in their huts. I was abducted and given to an Arab family as a “gift.” A “gift,” ladies and gentlemen. When you look at me, do you see a gift? Do I look like an object or a commodity? I am a human being, a person created in the image of God, a simple truth the jihadists did not and can not recognize. As a child, I lived as a slave for several years. I was beaten time and time again for no reason at all – even the whim of my “master’s” children could produce these beatings. I was subjected to harsh labor and indignities of every sort. A beloved child in my own loving family, I had to become accustomed to sleeping next to the animals and to clean the ground where I slept. I became accustomed to awakening first in the household to begin my labor, eating the leftovers from the plates of my “master’s” and going to sleep last – only after every bit of heavy work had been performed. I will not dwell on this time in my life. I speak of it because you need to understand that if you take my experience as a child slave and multiply hundreds of thousands of times only then can you begin to understand the nightmare of the African peoples of Sudan at the hands of the jihadists. While the life of a slave is like hell, there is no shame in being a slave; it is not a choice. There is only shame in being a “master.” If any one is to feel shame for the suffering of the people of the Sudan who have lost 3.5 million lives at the hands of a barbarous regime, it is the radical Muslims in Khartoum and their Islamist allies throughout Sudan and across the whole of the Islamic world. It is important to bear in mind that by definition the African Christians of the Southern Sudan are the victims of jihad Islamism. The war against us (I should add that the word “war” is misleading because it has not been conventional war we have experienced but a genocidal war of extinction) has been and is being conducted in the name of jihad. According to the murderers, rapists and slavers – they are engaged in a holy war in the name of Allah. The Sudanese jihadists have a simple-minded, cruel, binary worldview. If you are not a Muslim you are a khoufar, an infidel, an enemy, a human being with no right to life who may be treated with terrible inhumanity. The jihadists in Khartoum have a great challenge in Sudan, the Land of the Blacks. Those Arabs and Sudanese who have chosen to be culturally Arab are so comparatively few – and the blacks are so many. Still, they have done their work with great efficiency. They have been well-armed by their friends in the Arab world. They committed genocide against us in the South and they got away with it: the world simply looked away. Now they have turned their attention west, to Darfur. Some are watching; most are not. When millions of African blacks were being slaughtered and hundreds of thousands of Southern Sudanese children were and are being enslaved, the world was indifferent. Perhaps worst of all – the UN turned its back. Ladies and gentlemen, there are very painful questions which must be asked, and I will ask them. How long will mass murder, slavery, religious persecution, systematic rape, enforced starvation, and “ethnic and religious cleansing” be allowed to go on? When will those with the power to act to stop these crimes stand up and say enough is enough? Not long ago – only yesterday in historical terms – after the Nazis slaughtered millions of innocent Jews, the UN was created. At that time, standing on the ashes of the victims of Auschwitz and the other places of torture and mass-murder, the world said, “Never Again.” The words seemed to mean something at that time; they seemed filled with purpose and power. It appeared as though a brave new world was coming into being in which such atrocious evil would never again be permitted by civilized nations. When Pol Pot slaughtered his own people in Cambodia we returned to that phrase and once more said, “Never again.” But in Sudan, when 1.5 million were lost in a genocide perpetrated by the Islamists, nobody said anything at all. Then Rwanda came, and even though no one lifted a finger to save the 800,000 so horribly slaughtered, yet again, everybody said “Never Again”. In Sudan, in the second genocide in the South, 2 million were being slaughtered up until two months ago in the name of jihad by the Islamic government in Khartoum. Once more, there was a deathly silence. When are we going to say “Never Again” with respect to the people of Sudan? And more to the point, when – at long last – will the international community act on the meaning of those words? But perhaps this is not the right question. I have begun to think that the right question to ask the so-called civilized world is to stop saying “Never Again” since those words carry no meaning. Why bother repeating the phrase when you know in your heart you do not mean it? That is the question I leave you with today. If we live in a world in which simple moral understanding is dead, perhaps we should at least have the decency to speak that truth. Lest us bury the empty words. It is an act of indecency to the victims to permit these words to have lost all meaning. Let us bury them along with the bodies of the innocent. I ask this question as a victim of enslavement in Sudan; I ask it for my fellow Southern Sudanese who are always asking this question. My voice is their voice. We can not stop wondering why no one cares about our fate, why nobody does anything about it. We have been victimized by the Arabs in the name of the ideology of jihad, but no one seems to care. We have endured and are enduring the most systematic destruction of a people since the Nazi Holocaust, but our fate seems largely invisible to the world. It is very painful to say this, but we Sudanese victims can not avoid uttering the truth, at least among ourselves: we are black, and therefore nobody cares about us. We are the ultimate victims of a global racism that continues even in the new millennium. We also have the great misfortune to be the victims of Arabs who slaughter and enslave us in the name of jihad. And everyone sitting here surely knows that when it comes to the ideology of jihad, open discourse at the Commission for Human Rights is muted. People refuse to speak the truth because no one wishes to be seen as anti-Islamic, especially not at the UN. Finally, let me turn to address Muslim believers. Surely you know the enslavement and slaughter of millions of people is evil. Does your religion condone these crimes against humanity? If it does not, why don’t you speak up to condemn these crimes, these sins? The genocide and slavery perpetrated by the government of Khartoum is done in the name of the ideology of jihad. Thus, these crimes appear to be committed, by implication, in your name, in the name of the religion you hold sacred. If you are silent, I can not help but think you condone these crimes against humanity. If any religion, condones mass murder, slavery, religious persecution, systematic rape, forced starvation, and ethnic cleansing, what can be said about the peaceful, beneficent character of that religion? I speak with an angry voice because I am a victim. I am a victim of the great evil of slavery. I have witnessed the slaughter of my people – the death of 3.5 million innocent human beings created in the image of God. My enslavement, the murder of my people – these crimes were often committed in the name of jihad. Muslims: if you believe your religion does not condone these crimes against humanity, shouldn’t you collectively say it is wrong here at the UN? As a child in Southern Sudan, I witnessed my people being slaughtered with my own eyes; I witnessed young girls and women being raped. As you surely know, the rape of black women in Sudan counts for nothing because the Arab regime of Khartoum sends its soldiers in the field to rape and murder because black African infidels are not judged to be entitled to human rights as defined by the international instruments. The ideology of jihad places infidels outside the law. No religious authority or system of justice holds the perpetrators responsible because their crimes are a matter of government policy and are sanctioned by the state religion, a religion that pretends to be universal but that slaughters the “other” without mercy. In the Sudan I witnessed my people who escaped slaughter in the South become refugees. I assume all of you know how the Khartoum government deals with black African refugees: it denies food to the needy, water to the thirsting. To receive humane treatment as a refugee you must become a Muslim. Thus even the system of relief to needy refugees is part of a process of forced conversion. There are 2-3 million Southern Sudanese refugees in another part of Sudan where they are treated like dogs; they are not even considered citizens because in Sudan citizenship is based on religion, and only Muslims qualify. The laws relating to citizenship rights place the nation’s black African Christians at the bottom, in legal limbo without status or rights. Muslim men are first-class citizens. The second–class citizens of the Sudan are Arab Muslim men from any other Islamic country, and the third-class citizens are the Arab Muslim women. The infidel Africans of that nation are not considered by jihadists to be full citizens; this despite the fact that nearly 90% of the population is black African. Let me draw to a close. In conclusion, I repeat the question that never stops troubling me and my fellow Sudanese who have suffered so terribly: how long will the world be silent? How long will the world let my so-called “infidel” people be slaughtered and enslaved in the name of the ideology of jihad? How long will the world silence moral judgment in a pointless effort not to offend the murderers and slavers and the supporters of murder and slavery? Is the sacrifice of ethical principle more important than not offending violent jihadists? While the world watches on the sidelines, the government of Sudan wages its war of jihad against the black African people of the land, the true indigenous people of Sudan, focusing now on Darfur. Because the world has failed to act decisively millions have died, hundreds of thousands have been enslaved, hundreds of thousands have been raped, and millions more have traveled the painful path of exile. To be silent is to condone. The international community must accept responsibility for every evil that it could end yet chooses not to. I direct these last words principally to the United Nations. Do you stand for all human rights? Do you stand for all human liberties? Do you care about the dignity of all of the people of the world, including those branded by jihadists as infidels? The questions I have asked are repeated every single day by millions of black Sudanese. Can you answer me? The failure of the United Nations to guarantee the basic rights of the slaves of Sudan and other black African “infidels” is shameful beyond my ability to express. Thank you very much.
Buffalo took a buffalo-sized dump on that request. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Thanks Buff. Those slaves were imported all over the Middle East, yet seem to have no extant descendants. Again; why might that be? Diamond. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! It's a little hard to believe you given your predilection for using "any means necessary". Your religious leaders say otherwise. Explain why we are in that list, or refute the list. I'll investigate. I hope it doesn't say that such consideration is only due Christian or Jewish dhimmis in islamic countries, because that's a common theme in Buhkari. ... ok whatever Geoff
I doubt the sources of these articles, and I believe them to be completely xenophobic. From ym experience with my Sudani and Somali firends, this is not the case but rather a lie issued from the outside sources and anti-government forces who themselves are guilty for massive genocide against native sudanis and the little heard nation of eritrea which is in danger from christians in ethiopia. Peace.
I doubt your supposed "Sudani and Somali friends", and believe them to be completely xenophobic. The UN itself is debating whether to intervene in the Sudanese genocide (or, at least, whether to call it a genocide) and you think it's not real because it insults islam. This fits with your ongoing hypothesis of "islam can do no wrong; muslims can do no wrong; kufr are always to blame for everything" hypothesis. Have you nothing honest to offer? Geoff
You logic does not matter, you have been proved over and over to have no beliefs of value. Islam is perfect and without error. Muslims are human beings, hence subject to fault. Where Muslims are to blame, they are wrong. Where Non-Muslims are to blame, they are wrong. I don't always chastise one group, as the readers have seen I actively speak out against the false governments of the Middle East and especially Saudis, Mubarak, Karimov, and Musharraf. However this seems very funny you would say such a thing. Your views are the exact opposite of phrase. Let's hear you say something good about Muslims for once. Peace.
These governments do not serve the wishes of the people and openly oppose the self-realization of Islam as a governing system in the Muslim world. The governments of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan are participating in open support or complete silence on issues which the people care about and pursuing policies against the will of the Muslim masses. Peace.
If all those governments do not serve the people why don't the people rise up and overthrow them? We see in many places that muslims are fully capable of violent actions when they perceive some slight against islam yet when it comes to thier own governments there seems to be very little action.
Define "beliefs of value". But your answer to everything seems to be "more islam". And in this "more islam", you would kill apostates and homosexuals. This is not justice, and it proves your humanitarian sentiments are lacking. They are people. There are no generally assignable traits to either Christians or Muslims or Jews. Their characteristics range too widely. Their beliefs on the other hand, might be characterised. There seems to be a good sense of responsability in islam. There seems to be evidence of charity. Geoff
The danger in preferring beliefs over logic is that the illogical and irrational are allowed to reign supreme and are justified through beliefs. People are people and will rarely err if following logic - that has been made evident with science and what science has brought mankind. But if we look back on the history of what religion has brought us, it is evident that people will severely err in its practice and implementation. So, the proof has been in the putting.
