The Australian Light Horse
 

[QUOTE]
[B]The Australian 4th Light Horse Brigade[/B]

by Robert Niblock

Copyright © 2001 Robert Niblock All Rights Reserved

The attack on Beersheba was Australias' "charge of the light brigade". The British called our ANZAC soldiers "gladiators with the eyes of children". It left an incredible legacy to all Australians as the word ANZAC (Australian New Zealand Army Corp) is now a symbol of the Australian character tough, just, self sacrifice, honour, humor in the face of adversity and foremost, sticking by your mates when your backs are against the wall.

I actually met as a boy a man who was in the charge and have a photo of the men taken as a lead scout turned in his saddle and snapped a photo of the ranks behind him. Note the men holding their bayonets out in lieu of sabres.

Everything depended on speed. The Australian mounted infantry achieved a feat unheard of in modern military warfare. A cavalry charge across nearly five kilometers of open ground against entrenched enemy supported by artillery, machine guns and aircraft. How could such a charge be made by men unequipped and untrained for such action riding horses that had been without water for 48 hours?. How could it succeed without appalling losses ? But these were Australian soldiers and the war in Palestine & Sinai hinged on 40,000 men and horses accessing the intact wells of Beersheba before nightfall.

From the Turkish trenches the three lines of charging horsemen stretching 1100 meters across the broad gently sloping valley were a daunting site , so much so the Turks forgot to lower the sights on their rifles set at 1500 meters allowing the Light Horse to charge in under the hail of rifle and machine gun bullets.

Though many men and horses were to come crashing down within seconds after the photo was taken, the photo shows the three echelons of Light Horse lunging to the gallop with the three lines hurtling across the rock strewn plain, the Australians yelling wildly ---stockman yells , coo-ees, even laughter--- as they thunder towards the astonished Turkish trenches. Having no cavalry sabres the men can be seen gripping their bayonets to flash their sharpened blades in the coppery sunlight.

The gallop turns to a thundering full charge with men laying flat across their mounts necks. The horses, having smelled, water are at a full frantic gallop towards the wells ignoring the bullets whining past their ears. The first wave jumps the Turkish trenches with the terrified defenders stabbing upwards at the horses with their bayonets.

The Australians dismounted and launched themselves at the Turks in vicious hand to hand fighting joined by following waves. The Turks surrendered while a number of Lighthorsemen road into Beersheba just in time to stop the German commanding officer from blowing up the critical water supply, the seven wells of Abraham.

Incidentally this charge, resulting in the capture of Beersheba, made it possible for the creation of modern day Israel and Saudi Arabia because of the subsequent capture of Damascus and driving the Turks out after 600 years occupation.

There is a very sad ending to the story however.

At the end of the war the Australian government would not allow the faithful horses of the Lighthorsemen to be shipped back to Australia for fear of introducing disease. These men had been with their adored horses from the beginning and they had traveled literally thousands of miles together across the burning desert and been through at least 9 major battles. When they heard that the horses were to be sold to the local Arabs the men went berserk. They had seen the Arabs treating horses and donkeys in a most cruel manner.

The day they embarked at the wharf to return to Australia, each Aussie horsemen quietly took his faithful mount aside gave the noble steed a hand full of carrots. Then, with gentle words and tears streaming down their faces, they shot their horses dead rather than consign their four legged buddies/mates to a life unthinkable.

Old veterans said it was the most gut wrenching scene they'd observed in all the war. Consider Australia ...and America for that matter were built by men such as these. We owe it to the honor of their memory to hold safe the flame they gave us.

[URL=http://www.bluestarbase.org/anzacs1.htm]Source.[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

[URL=http://www.lighthorse.org.au/histbatt/beersheba.htm]Another site about this story.[/URL]

[quote]ANZAC (Australian New Zealand Army Corp) is now a symbol of the Australian character[/quote]

Hey, nationalistic creep, don't you think it means anything to New Zealanders?

And it's Australian and New Zealand Army Corps, not Corp.

Australia never produced fighters of the quality of the Maori Battalion. In WWII, the Germans feared and respected the Maori Battalion more than any other foe.

Nationalism Nannygoat? you seem guilty as well. The Australians threw their lives away for The Commonwealth, as did New Zealanders, as did the Englishmen.

Corp/corps, Flamebait, please just let it go.

[QUOTE]Australia never produced fighters of the quality of the Maori Battalion. In WWII, the Germans feared and respected the Maori Battalion more than any other foe.[/QUOTE]

This is pure conjecture, Maori battalions were massacred along with every other poor soul that thought German machine gunners were useless technological idiocies.

It's not pure conjecture, it's what the Germans themselves said. And FYI, there was only one Maori Battalion.

Nationalism? I don't think so, New Zealanders have never denied that the ANZACs were composed of the troops from both countries. It's the Australians who consistently pretend that the ANZACs were a purely Australian force.

I think the proof is in the pudding- any fool who ignores what the initials ANZAC stand for should be accused of idiocy as well as Nationalism/Jingoism.

The Germans comended many allied divisions, Ludendorff himself constantly drilled German training camps with the idea that they were up against the best. (He was refering to the English) I don't think you have any grounding to conclusively say that the Maoris fought harder than anyone else.

Nannygoatgruff
 

1) You're an idiot.

2) You are a nationalistic creep.

3) This article was not written by me; if you ahve a problem with it, take it up with the author.

4) This article is clearly, as the title indicates, about [I]the Australian Light Horse Regiments[/I], which were [I]part of[/I] the ANZAC force but not the whole of it.

5) Look up the source of the word Corp/Corps.

6) Provide some evidence to support your claims of Maori greatness perhaps.

7) You're an idiot.

So the best you can do is an "et tu, quoque", and you call [i]me[/i] an idiot? Well nobody ever said Australians were bright.

There were Kiwis signed up with the Australian Light Horse, as it happens. I knew some of them personally (they've passed on now). Of course the article is far too dishonest to admit that.

I am not the nationalistic one here, New Zealanders have never denied that "ANZAC" includes Australians. It's the Australians who have created, and perpetuate, the myth that the ANZACs were purely Australian. I lived 18 months in Australia and my kids even got taught in school that "ANZAC" equals "Australian".

Proof of the Maori Battalion's superiority. Well, for one thing, the Germans themselves said the Maori Battalion were the best fighters. They said in North Africa the sound they feared most, nore than the shelling or anything, was the sound of the MAori Battalion doing the haka. It meant they were about to be attacked by the most savage of all the Allied troops. Also, for the attack on Monte Cassino, who did the Allies pick for what they knew whould be a very difficult and bloody battle? The New Zealanders and in particular, the Maori Battalion.

The only person to win a Victoria Cross and bar (i.e. two Victoria Crosses) was a Kiwi, not an Australian.

Nannygoatgruff
 

The Australian Light Horse had members from many nations. However, they were Australian regiments, as you can tell from the name, and the article is about those Australian regiments.

No Australian I have ever known or even heard of has denied there were Kiwis in the ANZAC forces.

You have not provided proof of this Maori superiority. All you've done is say "I heard a guy say once..."

Nannygoat, Adam posted an article written about the lighthorse, who were an Australian regiment. He never once even insinuated that ANZAC was a purely Australian force. I'm sure hes very very sorry for not mentioning, perhaps in a "small" aside, that ANZAC day means a lot to Kiwis too. Perhaps he'll remember next time.

There were Australians in bomber command in England during WW2, and nearly every other branch of the british services as well... and Kiwis for that matter... but you don't see us making pathetic little cry baby waaah's about how we are never mentioned.

I was never taught that ANZAC meant anything other than Australian and New Zealand Army Corps in school either, and neither was anyone else I know... attention seeking lies will get you nowhere.

Do all Kiwis have this... er... "small"... syndrome? I play against a lot of you on the internet in gaming circles, and you all seem to have this... "little"... problem.

All you had to do if you wanted recognition was post an equivalent article about the Maori regiment, but noooo... you had to have a cry instead.

Get over it.

um

i always learned at school that it was both

that Australia and New Zeland worked together

oviously we are going to learn more about the Australians and i am embarised to admit that i don't know if there were NZ'es at galipoly altho i assume there were

and as to the NZ forces being the most feared i herd the same about the Aussies

i herd that our own forces wanted Aussie scouts cause WE were the best

i bet every country thinks they were

of corse they are wrong cause Australians are naturly surperior to EVERYONE but you can't fault there trying:p

anzacs
 

Both nations involved in the birth of the anzacs
were the very finest of troops. But to say that doing battle with maori battalions Was worse than against other newzealand battalions or australian battalions,is poopy cock.
dont forget that aussies also did battle along side maori's in the maori wars, against maoris.

The unfortunate part about Adam's statement is that he has allowed emotive writing to overtake fact. The Australian Light Horse did not shoot their horses as they went aboard ship to sail home! (how would they have found remounts to put down the Arab rebellion in Egypt??)
At the end of the war, horses were classified into 4 catagories. A & B were SOLD to the British & Indian forces remaining in the Middle East. C class were generally sold to locals & Ds were destroyed, and in most cases they were destroyed by squads selected at Regimental level and allocated to REMOUNT UNITS to carry out the task. Rarely would they have shot their own horses.

I get very tired of hearing this rubbish and that espoused by religious fanatics who write their own history to suit their theology. They write of 800 men taking Beersheba. What rot!
There were a lot more than 800 men there that day and the total number of the 4th & 12th regiments who rode in the charge is more likely to have been in the vicinity of 600.

So please, before you write an article like this, check your facts, open your mind and look for supportive evicence.

Rob Thomas
 

[quote]
The unfortunate part about Adam's statement is that he has allowed emotive writing to overtake fact.
[/quote]
I didn't write the article.

[quote]
I get very tired of hearing this rubbish and that espoused by religious fanatics who write their own history to suit their theology.
[/quote]
I get tired of idiots who can't read what I post.

[quote]
So please, before you write an article like this, check your facts, open your mind and look for supportive evicence.
[/quote]
So please, before you comment on my posts, actually read what is there and find supportinve evidence. So far all you've done is bullshit along about stuff that I didn't actually write.

From [url]http://www.lighthorse.org.au/histbatt/beersheba.htm[/url]
[quote]
The village of BIR SABA lay on the northern edge of the Sinai Desert in a shallow saucer at the foot of the judean Hills, Beerhseba was protected by Tel El Saba, a 300 metre feature on the northern bank of the Wadi Saba 3 kilometres to the east. It was a great mound which had a commanding view of the surrounding plain. The Wadi ran across the south of the town from east to west.
The enemy was Turkey, Imperial Germany's eastern ally. They held the line, Gaza-Beersheba. At Beersheba were the 27th Division and Battalions from the 16th and 24th Divisions, supported by artillery. The enemy's defence extended from Tel El Saba on the eastern flank. Two lines of trenches were dug into the cliff face of the Tel. A series of inferior trenches extended along the Wadi; they were not protected by wire. These extended to a group of detached trenches on the south-west flank. The enemy had good zones of fire.
General Sir Edmund Allenby commanded the British Eastern Expeditionary Force of two corps.
Lt-Gen Sir Harry Chauvel commanded the Desert Mounted Corps. He had no misgivings about his troops; they had sheer quality, leadership and experience; many had been at Gallipoli. These men of the Light Horse were without peer.
Lt Gen. Sir Philip Chetwode commanded the British XX Corps. He had defined the Gaza - Beersheba line.
Chauvel's Desert Mounted Corps were to capture Beersheba.
Chauvel's orders were to straddle the Beersheba-Hebron Road at Sakati 8 kilometres north-east of Beersheba, capture Tel El Saba, then storm the town. The mission was to be executed on the first day of the battle.
He had two divisions, each of three brigades. The ANZAC Mounted Division (ANZACs) included the 1st and 2nd Australian Light Horse Brigades and the New Zealand Mounted Rifle Brigade.
The Australian Mounted Division included the 3rd and 4th Austrlian Light Horse Brigades and the 5th (British) Yeomanry Brigade. In support were the Light Batteries of the Royal Horse Artillery.
The Battle of Beersheba was to be a three-phase operation supported by the British. The first phase was to be a night ride from wells at Asluj and Khalasa 20 kilometres to the south in the Sinai, to positions south and south-east of the town. In the second phase, the 2nd Australian Light Horse Brigade was to advance to Sakati and act as a cut-off force. The 1st Australian Light Horse and New Zealand Mounted Rifle Brigades were to capture Tel El Saba. Finally, with the road and Tel secure, the ANZAC's were to storm the town. This did not eventuate. This was the most significant factor in the Battle of Beersheba, forcing Chauvel to commit his reserve - the Australian Mounted Division. In a preliminary operation, the British Infantry of XX Corps were to secure positions to the south-west astride the Khalasa-Beersheba Road.
At Asluj and Khalasa the men of the Desert Mounted Corps watered; they carried three days rations. Despite great loads, the horses were touched with excitement. Smoking was forbidden and talking subdued. The bare hills of Sinai sounded with the beat of thousands of shod horses. They rode 30 kilometres through the night.

Positions at Beersheba

Click on map for larger image approx 30k


30th October 1917
1800: Asluj and Khalasa were cleared.
31st October 1917
0555: 100 British guns opened in support of the preliminary operation.
0700: The Desert Mounted Corps halted, and patrols were pushed forward. Beersheba with its mosque was clearly in view; it offered no prize in rations or quarters, but something more coveted were the ancient wells to water those parched men and their Waler mounts. A large pool could be seen shimmering in the Wadi; there had been a storm on the 27th.
0830: The British rushed forward and captured their objectives to the south-west and brought forward their guns.
0900: The ANZAC's were ready to seize the road and the Tel. The enemy was observed reinforcing the Tel.
0930: The 2nd Brigade moved into artillery formation, advanced through a Bedouin camp, and thundered to the Hebron Road Sakati without slackening. Turkish batteries fired, but formation and ground gave them protection. With this task accomplished, they remained in a Wadi for the day.
1000: The Somerset Battery opened up on Tel El Saba from 3000 metres to cover the ANZAC assault. The 3rd Australian Light Horse Regiment was ordered to attack from the south-east. A spirited gallop under heavy fire brought the 3rd to within 1500 metres of the enemy. They dismounted. The Auckland Regiment conformed to the north. The Inverness Battery gave covering fire to the Somersets as they galloped to within 1000 metres of the Tel. The ANZAC's were severely punished but they continued their advance, eventually bringing effective Hotchkiss fire onto the cliff. The prospect of the 3rd scaling the 200 metre cliff was not good, so they gave full opportunity to the Aucklanders.
1300: The 2nd Australian Light Horse Regiment was ordered to support the 3rd. They advanced at the gallop, dismounted and rushed their horses back so quickly that the enemy though they had retreated. They fired on the horses; this enabled the 2nd to advance unharmed. Meanwhile, the 3rd had gained the bank. The Wellington's were thrown in to support the Aucklanders. The enemy was now under heavy fire.
1500: The New Zealanders rose and dashed up the slopes with the bayonet. The 3rd continued, but the Aucklanders were first in. Some Turks surrendered; others fled into the town. The 2nd and 3rd gave chase then fought off a counter-attack. At last the ANZAC's had secured the Hebron Road and Tel El Saba. Chauvel had not expected to lose as much time. He had already detached the 9th and 10th Regiments from the Australian Mounted Division in support of the ANZAC's.
1430: With the day on the wane, it was now neck or nothing; the time had come to commit the reserve. Chauvel issued decisive orders for the occupation of Beersheba. Brig. Grant of the 4th Australian Light Horse Brigade and Fitzgerald of the Yeomanry were at Headquarters; they pleaded for the honour of the charge. Put Grant straight at it was Chauvels terse order.
1630: The 4th and 12th Australian Light Horse Regiments drew up behind a ridge. From the crest, Beerhseba was in full view. The course lay down a long, slight slope which was bare of cover. Between them and the town lay the enemy defences. The 4th was on the right; the 12th was on the left. They rode with bayonets in hand. Each drew up on a squadron frontage. Every man knew that only a wild, desperate charge could seize Beerhseba before dark. They moved off at the trot, deploying at once into artillery formation, with 5 metres between horsemen. Almost at once the pace quickened to a gallop. Once direction was given, the lead squadrons pressed forward. The 11th Australian Light Horse Regiment and the Yeomanry followed at the trot in reserve. The Turks opened fire with shrapnel. Machine guns fired against the lead squadrons. The Royal Horse Artillery got their range and soon had them out of action. The Turkish riflemen fired, horses were hit, but the charge was not checked. The Lighthorsemen drove in their spurs; they rode for victory and they rode for Australia. The bewildered enemy failed to adjust their sights and soon their fire was passing harmlessly overhead. The 4th took the trenches; the enemy soon surrendered. The 12th rode through a gap and on into the town. Their was a bitter fight. Some enemy surrendered; others fled and were pursued into the Judean Hills. In less than an hour it was over; the enemy was finally beaten.
From his headquarters, Chauvel had watched the battle develop. He saw the New Zealanders swarming the Tel; on their right the 9th and 10th LH Regiment were trotting in pursuit under shrapnel. On the Wadi the 2nd and 3rd LH Regiments were pressing forward in their attempt to take the town from the east. The Royal Horse Artillery were firing in support. Then over the ridge rode the 4th and 12th . . . shrapnel . . . the signal to charge! Not for almost an hour did Chauvel learn that Beersheba had been won.
Then disaster. The 9th and 10th in pursuit were bombed by a lone German aircraft; they suffered heavy casualties. The Desert Mounted Corps watered at the wells of the patriarchs and in the pool. For days, the charge was the talk of the camps and messes.
The Australian Light Horse had galloped into history.
South Australians can be proud of the contribution of the 3rd and the 9th in the Battle of Beersheba.
A Squadron 3rd/9th South Australian Mounted Rifles began as the Reedbeds Cavalry in 1841 and is privileged to have inherited the honors, the history and the tradition of the Australian Light Horse.
[/quote]
And some pics: [url]http://www.lighthorse.org.au/histbatt/Rathkeyphotos.htm[/url]

If you post something Adam, you take responsibility for the information you post. May I suggest that rather than posting large slabs of other peoples work you start checking the sources and have a bit of credibility.
What I post I write.

Hey Robby, easy on Adam. Dont make me go Ninja on your ass:D

And around here you can post however and whatever you like, welcome to Sciforums:)

Welcome to SciForums, Rob![QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rob Thomas [/i]
They write of 800 men taking Beersheba. What rot!
There were a lot more than 800 men there that day and the total number of the 4th & 12th regiments who rode in the charge is more likely to have been in the vicinity of 600.[/quote]Could you post [i]your[/i] references for this information? I would be interested in reading more.

Peace.

__________________
[COLOR=darkred]Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace.
It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man;
it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him.[list][size=1][i]-- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)[/i][/size][/list][/COLOR]

There is no simple reference for the numbers on duty at that time. You will need to go through the regimental diaries of 4th LHR, 12th LHR and 11th LHR to check how many men were on leave, sick, or posted to other duties at the time....... I can assure you it doesnt equal 800 or anywhere near that number. For there to be 800 riders from the two regiments they would have had to have nearly their full complement on duty at the time and there were many who were simply not there.
As far as an accurate number who took part in the charge goes,,, it has never been possible to collate a complete list.