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[QUOTE=one_raven;2397508]Restraint.
It mimics the way alpha dogs restrain a misbehaving pack member by grabbibg it by the throat.
If made properly and fitted properly it does not hurt at all, but it triggers the automatic response of backing down to the throat grab.
Dogs can not protect their throat, so if they are grabbed by the throat, they stop.
It is probably the MOST humane way to keep an aggressive dog under control in what could otherwise be escalating danger.[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see. But doesn't a slip collar do the same thing?
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[QUOTE=Enmos;2397530]Ah, I see. But doesn't a slip collar do the same thing?[/QUOTE]
As Ceasar Milan says a well balanced dog is a well behaved Dog.
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[QUOTE=Enmos;2397530]Ah, I see. But doesn't a slip collar do the same thing?[/QUOTE]
No.
They are supposed to be placed behind the ears and used to "steer" the dog, the way one would do with the reigns on a horse.
It chokes them and can injure them if used for restraint.
THAT is inhumane.
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[QUOTE=one_raven;2397508]
It is probably the MOST humane way to keep an aggressive dog under control in what could otherwise be escalating danger.[/QUOTE]
what do you have a dog like that for?
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[QUOTE=PsychoTropicPuppy;2397506]...My dogs don't require muzzles, but LAW demands it otherwise you'll have to pay a fine.[/QUOTE]
Aw that's just mean..... In most cases aggressive dogs are due to poor training. I stand by the fact that aggressive dogs (aside from guard dogs) should be put down they are a danger to themselves, their owners and the general public. They tend to be bred that way by certain unscrupulous owners but can also just [I]be[/I] that way...
Ack! Dogs shouldn't be pets at all really.....but we are way, way too far along that slippery slope...
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[QUOTE=sniffy;2397818]
Ack! Dogs shouldn't be pets at all really.....[/QUOTE]
ridiculous statemnet.
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[QUOTE=one_raven;2397583]No.
They are supposed to be placed behind the ears and used to "steer" the dog, the way one would do with the reigns on a horse.
It chokes them and can injure them if used for restraint.
THAT is inhumane.[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about it being inhumane. I'm just asking a question.. :shrug:
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[QUOTE=sniffy;2397818]I stand by the fact that aggressive dogs (aside from guard dogs) should be put down they are a danger to themselves, their owners and the general public.[/quote]
Bullshit.
There are a lot of breeds that are fiercely loyal to the pack with all others and there are some breeds that are that way only toward other dogs.
It has nothing to do with training at all, and with responsible owners are a threat to nobody.
Thea has never bitten anyone - never even come close to nipping. She even played with a friend's two year old child.
She has never showed the slightest sign of aggression towards any person, and is fairly well trained.
She also has a number of dogs "friends".
But if a dog she does not know is encroaching on her territory (our yard) or is showing aggression toward either her or Max, she will lunge without a moment's hesitation and go straight for the throat of any dog - regardless of the size.
She is a threat to nobody AT ALL - it just means we can't take her to dog parks, and have to be aware when we are taking her for walks and other IRRESPONSIBLE dog owners are walking their dogs off the leash.
This is the case with most aggressive dogs I have known, and this is the standard for many breeds.
They are no threat, unless they feel their pack is being threatened.
Dumb ass, irresponsible dog owners are a threat - not dogs.
[QUOTE=sniffy;2397818]Ack! Dogs shouldn't be pets at all really.....but we are way, way too far along that slippery slope...[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=Enmos;2397885]I never said anything about it being inhumane. I'm just asking a question.. :shrug:[/QUOTE]
I know you didn't.
That was a continuation of an earlier train.
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[QUOTE=one_raven;2397920]I know you didn't.
That was a continuation of an earlier train.[/QUOTE]
Ok, sorry :)
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[QUOTE=PsychoTropicPuppy;2397464]...see it's not a fashion contest. It's about the security of other people, and dogs. Where I live it's law to make your dog wear a muzzle. Muzzles don't go hand in hand with spikey chain collars.[/QUOTE]
ahh I see.. but aren't there other kind of muzzles? that are a solid clothlike thing?
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[img]http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs259.snc1/10634_660350525317_22603040_37442898_3189695_n.jpg[/img]
White Sands National Monument, New Mexico.
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[QUOTE=Absane;2398200][img]http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs259.snc1/10634_660350525317_22603040_37442898_3189695_n.jpg[/img]
White Sands National Monument, New Mexico.[/QUOTE]
that place is sooo pretty..its a shame i have been to it just once and i dont live ubber far!!
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[img]http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs106.snc3/15340_660348604167_22603040_37442697_7766998_n.jpg[/img]
Somewhere near the Four Corners.
[img]http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs106.snc3/15340_660348863647_22603040_37442746_5528938_n.jpg[/img]
Badwater, Death Valley, CA
[img]http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs106.snc3/15340_660348928517_22603040_37442758_1913158_n.jpg[/img]
Bonneville Salt Flat, UT
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[img]http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs086.snc3/15340_660348983407_22603040_37442769_827797_n.jpg[/img]
Salt Lake, UT
[img]http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs106.snc3/15340_660349033307_22603040_37442779_7442474_n.jpg[/img]
Top of Mt. Elbert, CO - the highest peak in the Rocky Mountains.
I have a bunch more pictures I could post... but I'll worry about that later.
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[QUOTE=Absane;2398245][img]http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs106.snc3/15340_660348604167_22603040_37442697_7766998_n.jpg[/img]
Somewhere near the Four Corners.
[/QUOTE]
thats a pic of the NM side! hahahaaa.. I can tell..because the lack of our trees..and the crappyness of it all!
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[QUOTE][QUOTE=one_raven;2397920]Bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Whoa there cowboy!
[QUOTE]There are a lot of breeds that are fiercely loyal to the pack with all others and there are some breeds that are that way only toward other dogs.
It has nothing to do with training at all, and with responsible owners are a threat to nobody.[/QUOTE]
I agree. About the responsible owners bit. Trouble is...... at least four children this year have been killed by aggressive dogs owned by family members. I have nothing [I]against[/I] aggressive dogs. After all they once were wild (just like humans lol) but aggressive dogs should do aggressive jobs. They do not make great family pets.
[QUOTE]Thea has never bitten anyone - never even come close to nipping. She even played with a friend's two year old child.
She has never showed the slightest sign of aggression towards any person, and is fairly well trained.[/QUOTE]
Then I would contend that she is not an aggressive dog.
[QUOTE]She also has a number of dogs "friends".[/QUOTE]
Aww....
[QUOTE]But if a dog she does not know is encroaching on her territory (our yard) or is showing aggression toward either her or Max, she will lunge without a moment's hesitation and go straight for the throat of any dog - regardless of the size.[/QUOTE]
Note here: The important phrase is 'the throat of any dog'. Now if it were to go for the throat of any child I would suggest you have a [I]problem[/I] dog...:D
[QUOTE]She is a threat to nobody AT ALL - it just means we can't take her to dog parks, and have to be aware when we are taking her for walks and other IRRESPONSIBLE dog owners are walking their dogs off the leash.[/QUOTE]
I used to own a dog just like her. Border terrier/jack russel cross. A right little bitch she was! :D Never harmed a hair on a child's head though. One day she came trotting down the garden with the neighbours fluffy white kitten and
another neighbour's fat furry guinea pigs (two; one after the other). All of which used to wander around feely (no fencing allowed). We said if you let your pets wander around freely and they wander into our bit of garden our dog will kill them. We even used to go so far as to tell them when we were letting our dog out. They just forgot one day that their pets were loose. Ooops. Aw and she was so proud of the fact that she had killed them and couldn't understand why she was in so much trouble......
I can't tell you how many times I and my dog have been attacked out walking. I keep my dog on the lead at all times because I don't trust other dog walkers. They also let their dogs shit anywhere and don't pick up which gives the rest of us a bad name. I know from time to time there can be accidents :o (no poo bags yikes!)
However if your dogs attackes me and my dog somebody is in for a big surprise....my dog doesn't like being attacked especially when he has been so polite as too be on a lead.....
[QUOTE]This is the case with most aggressive dogs I have known, and this is the standard for many breeds.[/QUOTE]
This is the problem with the 'most dogs I have known' argument..... no black swans......
There are some dogs that are just aggressive. This in itself is not an issue; see wild animal commnet above. I know of a family who bought two black spaniels from the same litter. Little beauties. The family were very responsible, took them both to classes; trained them in the same way but one of them just kept biting; the children, the owners, other people. They got a dog expert in. The dog expert said; sorry this one has to go it's untrainable. It is now buried at the bottom of the garden. Sad......
[QUOTE]They are no threat, unless they feel their pack is being threatened.
Dumb ass, irresponsible dog owners are a threat - not dogs.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Therefore their dogs are also a threat.....by no fault of their own.
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[QUOTE=sniffy;2398341]Then I would contend that she is not an aggressive dog.[/quote]
Then you should have said, "Aggressive [I]toward humans[/I]."
[QUOTE=sniffy;2398341]I used to own a dog just like her. Border terrier/jack russel cross. A right little bitch she was! :D Never harmed a hair on a child's head though. One day she came trotting down the garden with the neighbours fluffy white kitten and
another neighbour's fat furry guinea pigs (two; one after the other). All of which used to wander around feely (no fencing allowed). We said if you let your pets wander around freely and they wander into our bit of garden our dog will kill them. We even used to go so far as to tell them when we were letting our dog out. They just forgot one day that their pets were loose. Ooops. Aw and she was so proud of the fact that she had killed them and couldn't understand why she was in so much trouble......[/QUOTE]
Jacks, all terriers really, have a VERY strong prey drive.
Jacks have been bred for many years to be fox hunters.
They corner a fox in it's hole, and the only way to get the dog out of the hole is to grab it by the tail and drag it out.
This not only enhances the prey drive of the breed, but enhances the feeling that it is a worker in the pack, subservient to the alpha - which means they are very protective.
The provide food and protection to their pack.
The one curious exception is female Jacks.
It is not recommended to have two female Jacks (two males, or one and one is fine) because there is a very good chance one will end up killing the other. Not unlike female humans, really. :D
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[QUOTE=one_raven;2398353]Then you should have said, "Aggressive [I]toward humans[/I]."[/QUOTE]
Sometimes - no matter how hard you may want to deny it, aggressive dogs can become aggressive towards humans. Non aggressive dogs can also become aggressive towards humans :eek:. This is because dogs, like humans, are unpredictable. Even though we know an awful lot about dogs (and humans) the unpredictable sometimes happens. Grey areas. I thought you were a fan of those.....?
A knowledgeable owner, and I'm sure you are one, will understand the signs that things might just be about to go pear shaped. I always say to children and adults who come dashing over to my dog ([I]everybody[/I] wants to stroke him). Approach slowly, bend or crouch with your hand held out, make nice soothy noises, don't stare directly into his eyes (until you get to know him better). I watch his tail and his body language. If his tail is stiff he's not sure. If he starts to growl, he's not very happy. If he starts to whine a little he's either scared or desperate to get to know you. Waggy tail - no worries. Usually if he is at home off the lead he's desperate to get to know you better!!
[QUOTE]Jacks, all terriers really, have a VERY strong prey drive.
Jacks have been bred for many years to be fox hunters.
They corner a fox in it's hole, and the only way to get the dog out of the hole is to grab it by the tail and drag it out.
This not only enhances the prey drive of the breed, but enhances the feeling that it is a worker in the pack, subservient to the alpha - which means they are very protective.
The provide food and protection to their pack.
The one curious exception is female Jacks.
It is not recommended to have two female Jacks (two males, or one and one is fine) because there is a very good chance one will end up killing the other. Not unlike female humans, really. :D[/QUOTE]
Not unlike male men either but I'll let that one go.....
Erm you know I live in the place that invented fox hunted don't you? I know quite a bit about jacks..... they also make excellent racers because of that prey drive. I've still got some of the old trophies and rosettes..... :D
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[QUOTE=sniffy;2398355]Sometimes - no matter how hard you may want to deny it, aggressive dogs can become aggressive towards humans. Non aggressive dogs can also become aggressive towards humans :eek:. This is because dogs, like humans, are unpredictable. Even though we know an awful lot about dogs (and humans) the unpredictable sometimes happens. Grey areas. I thought you were a fan of those.....? [/quote]
Just as some who are not aggressive at all will do the same.
Take a look at Dalmations and German Shepherds.
[QUOTE=sniffy;2398355]Waggy tail - no worries. Usually if he is at home off the lead he's desperate to get to know you better!! [/quote]
Did you know that a tail wagging to one side or the other is supposed to mean different things?
Full wag is OK.
Wag just to the left, if I recall correctly, means it is concerned.
Wag just to the right means somethign else - but I don't remember what.
[QUOTE=sniffy;2398355]Erm you know I live in the place that invented fox hunted don't you? I know quite a bit about jacks..... they also make excellent racers because of that prey drive. I've still got some of the old trophies and rosettes..... :D[/QUOTE]
We thought about getting them into racing - they LOVE jobs and recognition - but Max is too flaky and excitable and Thea is too aggressive [I]toward other dogs[/I].
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[QUOTE=sniffy;2398355]Not unlike male men either but I'll let that one go..... [/QUOTE]
Male men huh? :p
What kind is your dog?
