Printable View
Hi folks , so how everything going inhere. still the samo samo???? lol if so it would relief me of catching up the last hundred pages hehe.:D
I read a post tough that the new series are considered to be g-cannon ??????????????????:shrug:
wtf ??? if so you'll have to consider TOS and the movies (exept the last one being in a alternate reality and all) as a-cannon and all the other spin-offs like tng, voyager ds9 and such as g-cannon as well. that my opinion.:rolleyes:
Just to update the newcomers:
it has been determined that the Force actually would not work on anyone (or anything) from Trek - much like the 'Vong, there would only be a void where a force sensitive would detect something. Again, like the 'Vong, they would have no ability to influence/move/choke/et all them, and force powers would fizzle soon after leaving the force wielder in the Star Trek galaxy.
Long explanation short - there is no "force" in Star Trek, no Midichloirans, nothing. As such, they wouldn't show up.
Also, we're keeping the force out of it, for the simple fact that if Star Wars wants to bring the Force into the mix, than Star Trek will bring Q into the mix... and we ALL know how that'll end.
Darth Vader: You will bow to me!
Q: ...
Darth Vader: *holds up hand to force choke Q*
Q: ... *snaps fingers*
*darth vader finds himself dressed in a pink tuu-tuu*
Darth Vader: "..." *blinks*
Q: *snaps fingers again*
*darth vader NEVER existed*
Also, consider that, bringing Gundam into the mix:
They use, at best, fission based power supplies, and fission lasers. They would get absolutely ROCKED by Star Trek... Gundam vs Trek would be like... the CVN-65 USS Enterprise battle group being thrown back in time and engaging the Japanese during the Battle of Midway... it'd be a SLAUGHTER!
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2451336]Also, consider that, bringing Gundam into the mix:
They use, at best, fission based power supplies, and fission lasers. They would get absolutely ROCKED by Star Trek... Gundam vs Trek would be like... the CVN-65 USS Enterprise battle group being thrown back in time and engaging the Japanese during the Battle of Midway... it'd be a SLAUGHTER![/QUOTE]
FALSE. The Gundam Wing Zero destroyed space stations 4 times the size of the Enterprise. Plus the Zero and Epyon systems are so powerful they take over the pilot's mind. The system makes victory such a priority that it makes the pilot put aside his own life for he sake of victory. The Mobile Doll units would destroy Trek because they can dodge blasts like nothing. Same as the Epyon and Zero systems. And if the Enterprise were to go against the Mercurus and Veyeate it would not survive. With the orbital sheild system and high powered beam cannon it wouldn't stand a chance.
I just happened to come across this post on the [URL="http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ACwmwaMVrTYJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/12/730437/-Star-Wars-or-Star-Trek-(poll)-updated+asgard+record+high+australia+sciforums&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a"]Daily Kos[/URL]
[INDENT][COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Arial Black"][B]Trek fans are claiming victory on Sciforums.com, in which a thread titled "Star Wars vs. Star Trek: Which Universe Would Win" runs 782 pages. [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/INDENT]
Geez. Who'd have thought this thread would garner such attention.
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2451333]Just to update the newcomers:[/quote]
In other words he's going to spread some lies.
[QUOTE]it has been determined that the Force actually would not work on anyone (or anything) from Trek - much like the 'Vong, there would only be a void where a force sensitive would detect something. Again, like the 'Vong, they would have no ability to influence/move/choke/et all them, and force powers would fizzle soon after leaving the force wielder in the Star Trek galaxy.[/QUOTE]
There was an in canon explanation for the Vong force blindness/insensitivity. They were forcibly cut off gfrom the force by the progeny of their homeworld. This sensitivity was restored shortly after the Vong surrendered. So your theory is absolute bullshit.
[QUOTE]Long explanation short - there is no "force" in Star Trek, no Midichloirans, nothing. As such, they wouldn't show up.[/QUOTE]
Inconclusive as seen above. Also if we follow canon. One of SW race has vsited earth and displayed force powers including a mindlink to a young man and healing abilities. Ever seen ET, well his race is part of the Glatatic senate in Episode 1 and 2.
[QUOTE]Also, we're keeping the force out of it, for the simple fact that if Star Wars wants to bring the Force into the mix, than Star Trek will bring Q into the mix... and we ALL know how that'll end.[/QUOTE]
Actually since the Force user show a prevalence in participating in wars and the Q absolutely avoid them as seen in canon then your conclusion is flawed. You have to go by canon, not your silly little bullshit.
Darth Vader: You will bow to me!
[quote]Q: ...
Darth Vader: *holds up hand to force choke Q*
Q: ... *snaps fingers*
*darth vader finds himself dressed in a pink tuu-tuu*
Darth Vader: "..." *blinks*
Q: *snaps fingers again*
*darth vader NEVER existed*[/QUOTE]
More like
Darth Vader: *Holds up hand in apparant force choke of Q*
Q: *Snaps fingers*
*nothing happens*
Darth Vader: "I have cut off your access to your powers. They still exist, but you cannot access them."
Q: "What the Hell?"
Darth Vader: "You have much power, but are not used to dealing with equals. There is nothing the Force cannot do. Including scramble your thought processes."
Q: "oh shit!"
(there are powers that allow a seasoned Jedi or Sith to diminish or even block a persons access to the force. Not neccesarily needed as all you would have to do is scramble some small signals in the mind of the target. Easily done with the already overconfident Q)
[QUOTE=madanthonywayne;2451380]I just happened to come across this post on the [URL="http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:ACwmwaMVrTYJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5/12/730437/-Star-Wars-or-Star-Trek-(poll)-updated+asgard+record+high+australia+sciforums&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a"]Daily Kos[/URL]
[INDENT][COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Arial Black"][B]Trek fans are claiming victory on Sciforums.com, in which a thread titled "Star Wars vs. Star Trek: Which Universe Would Win" runs 782 pages. [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/INDENT]
Geez. Who'd have thought this thread would garner such attention.[/QUOTE]
What kills me is that the trekkies are even ignoring the poll, which they are losing despite sock puppetry.
[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2451123]Hi folks , so how everything going inhere. still the samo samo???? lol if so it would relief me of catching up the last hundred pages hehe.:D
I read a post tough that the new series are considered to be g-cannon ??????????????????:shrug:
wtf ??? if so you'll have to consider TOS and the movies (exept the last one being in a alternate reality and all) as a-cannon and all the other spin-offs like tng, voyager ds9 and such as g-cannon as well. that my opinion.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Actually technically the 2009 movie erased all the events of the previous series all together. Which is just fine by me if that is the way Paramount wants to play. They actually made Star Trek a little more competative and realistic.
[QUOTE=Omega133;2451340]FALSE. The Gundam Wing Zero destroyed space stations 4 times the size of the Enterprise.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't require immense amount of firepower.
[QUOTE] Plus the Zero and Epyon systems are so powerful they take over the pilot's mind.[/QUOTE]
And...
[QUOTE] The system makes victory such a priority that it makes the pilot put aside his own life for he sake of victory. The Mobile Doll units would destroy Trek because they can dodge blasts like nothing.[/QUOTE]
The Mobile Dolls are fast, but only compared to humans. ST ships can target and paste ships moving faster than the speed of light. I hardly think they'd need to try hitting something like a Mobile Doll.
[QUOTE] Same as the Epyon and Zero systems. And if the Enterprise were to go against the Mercurus and Veyeate it would not survive. With the orbital sheild system and high powered beam cannon it wouldn't stand a chance.[/QUOTE]
Dude, Gundams don't create massive nuclear blasts while planetside. That suggests that their weapons are easily in the KT or sub KT range.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2451383]In other words he's going to spread some lies.[/QUOTE]
Better than making large claims and then running like a pussy when they get shot down.
[QUOTE]Inconclusive as seen above. Also if we follow canon. One of SW race has vsited earth and displayed force powers including a mindlink to a young man and healing abilities. Ever seen ET, well his race is part of the Glatatic senate in Episode 1 and 2.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and according to Trek canon, Vader's name appears on a tombstone. Therefore showing that not only did the Federation already beat the snot out of the Empire, but they also kind enough to burry the brat.
[QUOTE]Darth Vader: *Holds up hand in apparant force choke of Q*
Q: *Snaps fingers*
*nothing happens*
Darth Vader: "I have cut off your access to your powers. They still exist, but you cannot access them."
Q: "What the Hell?"
Darth Vader: "You have much power, but are not used to dealing with equals. There is nothing the Force cannot do. Including scramble your thought processes."
Q: "oh shit!"[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Somehow I think the guy who can cause stars to go supernova and hurl starships light years isn't exactly going to have much of a problem against someone whose most impressive feat was tossing around a few meter large pieces of trash.
[QUOTE](there are powers that allow a seasoned Jedi or Sith to diminish or even block a persons access to the force. Not neccesarily needed as all you would have to do is scramble some small signals in the mind of the target. Easily done with the already overconfident Q)[/QUOTE]
Yes, let's pretend that the guy whose in the same league as spiderman can fight and beat the guy who could probably take out Galactus in one on one combat.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2451385]What kills me is that the trekkies are even ignoring the poll, which they are losing despite sock puppetry.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because the Bandwagon fallacy is all you have left, isn't it?
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2451386]Actually technically the 2009 movie erased all the events of the previous series all together.[/QUOTE]
Alternate timeline dumbass.
[QUOTE] Which is just fine by me if that is the way Paramount wants to play. They actually made Star Trek a little more competative and realistic.[/QUOTE]
Yes...by showing that a Romulan mining ship from the 24th century can effortlessly beat the living shit out of small battle fleets in the 23rd century, despite updated technology.
Hold on...
gene rodenburys (or whatyamacallhim) Andromeda would just oblivarate ST SW SG BG combined looooool to bad it isn't in the poll lol;
@tw scott uhmmm actually the 2009 movie does not erase all previous it is a alternated dimension as stated by spock in the movie.
[QUOTE=Omega133;2451340]FALSE. The Gundam Wing Zero destroyed space stations 4 times the size of the Enterprise. Plus the Zero and Epyon systems are so powerful they take over the pilot's mind. The system makes victory such a priority that it makes the pilot put aside his own life for he sake of victory. The Mobile Doll units would destroy Trek because they can dodge blasts like nothing. Same as the Epyon and Zero systems. And if the Enterprise were to go against the Mercurus and Veyeate it would not survive. With the orbital sheild system and high powered beam cannon it wouldn't stand a chance.[/QUOTE]
Hardly mate - the numbers simply don't lie. Kinetic based weapons (projectiles) and Chemical based explosives would have almost no effect against the Enterprise. Fusion and fission based laser systems have been obsolete in trek for centuries.
Also, you can't readily dodge a proximity-detonation quantum torpedo, much less a rapid-fire burst of 5 of them, set in a ring around you to detonate anywhere near your hull... for that matter, a rapid, stutter-fire of phaser blasts would easily nail at least one or two good hits on a Gundam, and send it reeling (if not destroying it).
I love Gundam and think they had some awesome series... but sadly their weapons are just obsolete.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2451383]In other words he's going to spread some lies.
There was an in canon explanation for the Vong force blindness/insensitivity. They were forcibly cut off gfrom the force by the progeny of their homeworld. This sensitivity was restored shortly after the Vong surrendered. So your theory is absolute bullshit.
Inconclusive as seen above. Also if we follow canon. One of SW race has vsited earth and displayed force powers including a mindlink to a young man and healing abilities. Ever seen ET, well his race is part of the Glatatic senate in Episode 1 and 2.
Actually since the Force user show a prevalence in participating in wars and the Q absolutely avoid them as seen in canon then your conclusion is flawed. You have to go by canon, not your silly little bullshit.
Darth Vader: You will bow to me!
More like
Darth Vader: *Holds up hand in apparant force choke of Q*
Q: *Snaps fingers*
*nothing happens*
Darth Vader: "I have cut off your access to your powers. They still exist, but you cannot access them."
Q: "What the Hell?"
Darth Vader: "You have much power, but are not used to dealing with equals. There is nothing the Force cannot do. Including scramble your thought processes."
Q: "oh shit!"
(there are powers that allow a seasoned Jedi or Sith to diminish or even block a persons access to the force. Not neccesarily needed as all you would have to do is scramble some small signals in the mind of the target. Easily done with the already overconfident Q)[/QUOTE]
Bwahaha, thanks man, I needed a good laugh.
To all newcomers - this is TW Scotch, our resident DRUNK. Ignore him or amuse yourself reading his drivil... sometimes he's good for a laugh, but mostly he's just annoying and repeats the same bogus "facts" over and over irregardless of the fact that they were disproven hundreds of pages ago.
True spacestations aren't the toughest.
What do you mean and? If you read the whole thing it makes the pilot not have any fear so that the mission will be carried out without any second thoughts.
When did they ever hit anything moving at light?
Who said anything about nuclear blasts or being planetside? I said that it wouldn't survive against the Mercurus and Veyeate. One has orbital defense sheilds and the other a high powered buster rifle. I fail to see how what you said is relevant.
Okay, I don't see how Darth Vader could have a tombstone when he died in Episode Six and was cremated on Endor. And if I must bring it up again the timelines don't link up. Only in here do we have the theory of the time link so don't be bringing up something that wouldn't add up in real life.(meaning if Trek and Wars were real they would never meet in time for The Federation to even see the remnants of Empire let alone it's peak)
Nah Looking upon Q Vader would say 'hmmmm the force is strong in this one' loooool
[QUOTE=Omega133;2451871]What do you mean and? If you read the whole thing it makes the pilot not have any fear so that the mission will be carried out without any second thoughts.[/QUOTE]
And? It's called military training. It's not like Starfleet has any issues pasting small mobile, hostile targets.
[QUOTE]When did they ever hit anything moving at light?[/QUOTE]
Well for one, in that very link that I gave you where Shinzon (the cloaked ship) hits the nacelle (the long blue thing) and causes the Enterprise E to drop out of warp. TOS is really the best case, as it actually has ships performing entire battles at FTL speeds.
TNG+ shows instances where other ships chase each other down and are capable of firing upon one another.
[QUOTE]Who said anything about nuclear blasts or being planetside? I said that it wouldn't survive against the Mercurus and Veyeate.[/QUOTE]
Well then, prove it.
[QUOTE] One has orbital defense sheilds[/QUOTE]
Which means what? Quantify them.
[QUOTE] and the other a high powered buster rifle. I fail to see how what you said is relevant.[/QUOTE]
Again, now powerful are they? Unless your answer is a coulple hundred times more powerful than the combined nuclear arsenal of Earth during the Cold War, then it isn't going to stand against one ship, let alone a small armada.
[QUOTE]Okay, I don't see how Darth Vader could have a tombstone when he died in Episode Six and was cremated on Endor. And if I must bring it up again the timelines don't link up. Only in here do we have the theory of the time link so don't be bringing up something that wouldn't add up in real life.(meaning if Trek and Wars were real they would never meet in time for The Federation to even see the remnants of Empire let alone it's peak)[/QUOTE]
That was the point. The E.T. thing was there as a sort of easter egg.
[QUOTE=Omega133;2451871]True spacestations aren't the toughest.
What do you mean and? If you read the whole thing it makes the pilot not have any fear so that the mission will be carried out without any second thoughts.
When did they ever hit anything moving at light?
Who said anything about nuclear blasts or being planetside? I said that it wouldn't survive against the Mercurus and Veyeate. One has orbital defense sheilds and the other a high powered buster rifle. I fail to see how what you said is relevant.
Okay, I don't see how Darth Vader could have a tombstone when he died in Episode Six and was cremated on Endor. And if I must bring it up again the timelines don't link up. Only in here do we have the theory of the time link so don't be bringing up something that wouldn't add up in real life.(meaning if Trek and Wars were real they would never meet in time for The Federation to even see the remnants of Empire let alone it's peak)[/QUOTE]
Okay, let me bring you up to speed:
Blasts as powerful as many Star Wars advocates claim (their claims that WOULD pose a threat to Star Trek vessels) would cause atomic-style blasts when used within an atmosphere... hell, an obsolete Constitution class starship like the original Enterprise was capable of stripping the atmosphere of a planet (literally setting the atmosphere on fire) using a high yield phaser blast... and the USS Defiant can obliterate the surface crust of a planet single handedly in under half an hour. Both of these were stated, on screen, in series by high ranking and highly intelligent officers... thus is canon FACT.
As for hitting objects at light speed - combat in Star Trek often takes place at high impulse speeds, and maximum impulse for a Galaxy class starship is nearly half the speed of light. We have seen a Galaxy Class starship (and indeed, a Nebula, Nova, Norway, Intrepid, and other ships) fire at, and be fired upon, while at Warp speed. Thus, hitting a large, bulky, slow Star Destroyer is overly simple, and hitting even a small, agile mobile suit would be a simple task. Factor in the near-instant refire capability of a Phaser Array (much less the dozen plus mounted on combat-oriented starships) and it'd have NO issue hitting even the fastest mobile suits. It'd simply use the computer to adjust for targetting and fill the area in and around the mobile suit with firepower, ensuring hits.
As for Vader's tombstone - TW Scott keeps claiming that because an ET Lookalike made a cameo appearance in the Senate chamber in Star Wars, that the Empire existed long before the Federation and thus has had millenia to advance. No shit, long time ago in a galaxy far far away yadda yadda. However, he keeps taking it a step further and saying that because of that the Empire has already been to, and conqured, earth. Yeah, right. Our counter is that because there is a Tombstone for Darth Vader showing in Star Trek, Vader got his ass kicked. Or, we could go back to actual logic and say that these "cameo" apperances are jokes and nothing more... much like the Falcon showing up in "ST First Contact" and R2D2 showing up in the new "Star Trek" movie.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2451386]Actually technically the 2009 movie erased all the events of the previous series all together. Which is just fine by me if that is the way Paramount wants to play. They actually made Star Trek a little more competative and realistic.[/QUOTE]
Yah, they put in a twist.
The fact is, is that if they hadn't done that, well, it'd be like the same old thing for the umpteenth time.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2451385]What kills me is that the trekkies are even ignoring the poll, which they are losing despite sock puppetry.[/QUOTE]
? trekkies have 68% of the vote...
Dude, face it, if you can blow up a space station the size of a moon by shooting a bottle rocket down a hole into the center and blow it up that way than you have to have the most idiotic engineer in the history of mankind, besides the fact that they replaced the hole with another hole in the second death star except this time a fucking space ship can fly through.
Anyways Scott, look at it this way, it takes you a battlestation the size of a moon or a gigantic eclipse star destroyer to blow up a planet, for us, it take 9 fighter sized craft to do the same thing, and considering we can literally just grow them, we could just send hundreds at a time and eventually atleast 9 of them will get through.
Iv'e seen TNG and the fighting at warp, can't beleive I forgot about that. I don't know the sheild power of an orbital defense system, I don't even think that information was released. However it can block a beam rifle shot which has the power to destroy an entire Abrams tank in a single shot(Not powerful I know). However the Mercurus/Veyeate defense sheild is thrice as powerful. Again the info is hard to find if it even exists so I don't know the power of the modified buster rifle.
The Falcon was in first contact? I'll have to watch that episode again. I own the new Trek movie but haven't seen R2-D2. What scene was he in?
[QUOTE=fedr808;2452654]9 fighter sized craft to do the same thing, and considering we can literally just grow them, we could just send hundreds at a time and eventually atleast 9 of them will get through.[/QUOTE]
I doubt your ability to create ships fast. In the new Trek, it takes you about 5 years to build the Enterprise. It takes the Mon Calamari 6 months to build a Mon Cal cruiser.