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[QUOTE=alpinedigital;2370081]They are firing from canons, which have to be physically turned to aim, and they simply don't turn fast enough to consider their weapons too threatening.QUOTE]
Did you watch episode 4(A New Hope)? The cannons turned considerably fastduring the death star attack(?)
[QUOTE=alpinedigital;2370081]LOL Against Star Destroyers? Their hit miss ratio is so sad you'd have to encourage me to waste the energy to RAISE the shields in the first place. They are firing from canons, which have to be physically turned to aim, and they simply don't turn fast enough to consider their weapons too threatening.
well if you want to get all discouraging, we still have yet another trick.. just do a drive-by right close to the ISD and launch a shuttle craft, and then....
[CENTER][IMG]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2993/lolafx.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
Seriously, id consider it a fucking miracle if they even SAW the defiant let alone identified it as a ship. Jesus, and their shields dont even block solid OBJECTS which is yet another irony of star wars. And their ships are insanely slow. And do remember they cant use hyperspace anywhere near a planet.
Just fire torps and their shields wont do shit.
They couldnt find a space ship if it were strapped to their asses which consequently HAPPENED.
Uh hello. Ion cannons could lower the enterprises' sheild. And if that don't work concussion missles can go through sheilds.
[QUOTE=Omega133;2370356]Uh hello. Ion cannons could lower the enterprises' sheild. And if that don't work concussion missles can go through sheilds.[/QUOTE]
No and no
Trek shields block ion STORMS with regularity, storms that make ion cannons discharges look like someone "farted in their general direction".
And Concussion missiles won't penetrate trek shields, this has been discussed to DEATH.
[QUOTE=alpinedigital;2370081]LOL Against Star Destroyers? Their hit miss ratio is so sad you'd have to encourage me to waste the energy to RAISE the shields in the first place. They are firing from canons, which have to be physically turned to aim, and they simply don't turn fast enough to consider their weapons too threatening.
well if you want to get all discouraging, we still have yet another trick.. just do a drive-by right close to the ISD and launch a shuttle craft, and then....
[CENTER][IMG]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2993/lolafx.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
why is it that you try to win by deploying special circumstances to a general encounter? if this was open war and 2 fleets clashed do you really think there would be much time and space for performing "tricks"? just to clarify, would Solo's trick work if there was at least 1 more ISD present? or would anyone in their right mind drop their shield with a dozen or mile long ships shooting at it?
Oh yeah, trek would have plenty of time for these tricks. Trek has all the time in the world mate.
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2370561]Oh yeah, trek would have plenty of time for these tricks. Trek has all the time in the world mate.[/QUOTE]
Indeed...Trek capitalized on the "tricks" and insightful leaps of the genius specialists assigned to starships. How many times has Dax, Seven, Geordi, Data and the like come up with farfetched but deviously clever schemes to pull their asses out of the fire?
Hell, the temporary Enterprise boss Captain Jellico has already used a similar strategy onscreen as Alpine's suggestion.
[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;2370583]Indeed...Trek capitalized on the "tricks" and insightful leaps of the genius specialists assigned to starships. How many times has Dax, Seven, Geordi, Data and the like come up with farfetched but deviously clever schemes to pull their asses out of the fire?
Hell, the temporary Enterprise boss Captain Jellico has already used a similar strategy onscreen as Alpine's suggestion.[/QUOTE]
and how many times has this happen during those massive Dominion War battles? a war against the empire would result in battles that would dwarf those battles :scratchin:
I would have to say Star Trek would prevail in a battle to the finish. But only if it was the orginal crew The empire would not be able to make sense of Kirk and he is likely to kick Darth Vadars butt in a fight as he fought many many beings that were as powerful if not more so then Vadar. IMHO
[QUOTE=Omega133;2370356]Uh hello. Ion cannons could lower the enterprises' sheild. And if that don't work concussion missles can go through sheilds.[/QUOTE]
Well for starters. Ion cannons still work on the principle of the laser, and lasers are wholly inefficient against the Enterprise's shields.
Here is the hierarchy of weaponry that are energy bassed:
lowest ->Lasers -> Plasma weapons -> phasers -> disruptors -> (borg cutting beam maybe??) Highest
The only race we have discussed in any detail that uses lasers well enough to be effective is WH40k.
Want a good idea of how inefficient lasers especially Star wars ones are?
In star wars they need a battlestation the size of a fucking moon to power a laser capable to destroying a planet.
In Star Trek, Species 8472 only needs like 9 ish fighter sized ships to do the job.
Also here is the hierarchy of missile systems:
(lowest) Tomahawk missile -> concussion missile (which is just a thermobaric bomb) -> Proton torpedo -> Photon torpedo -> Quantum torpedo -> transphasic torpedo (highest)
The way i deduced a concussion missile is a thermobaric bomb is simply through its name, "concussion" implies the missile does the most damage off of an immense shockwave, what produces the best shockwave for their level of tech? A thermobaric bomb.
And Star trek shields unlike SW shields deflect not only lasers but solid objects such as your missiles and torpedos.
[QUOTE=Omega133;2370290][QUOTE=alpinedigital;2370081]They are firing from canons, which have to be physically turned to aim, and they simply don't turn fast enough to consider their weapons too threatening.QUOTE]
Did you watch episode 4(A New Hope)? The cannons turned considerably fastduring the death star attack(?)[/QUOTE]
Yah but what was their accuracy? Oh yeah I remember, less than one damn percent.
Seriously how many times have you seen a phaser miss its target?
I could count the times on one hand.
[QUOTE=antaran_1979;2370606]and how many times has this happen during those massive Dominion War battles? a war against the empire would result in battles that would dwarf those battles :scratchin:[/QUOTE]
The number of times is immaterial. That it was done proves the tactic is feasible, especially the more ungainly and uncoordinated the opponent.
[QUOTE=fedr808;2370669]
In Star Trek, Species 8472 only needs like 9 ish fighter sized ships to do the job.[/QUOTE]
In Star Trek all that is needed is the Defiant. It may not be planet shattering, but the Defiant has enough firepower to render a planet unlivable.
[QUOTE=fedr808;2370669]
(lowest) Tomahawk missile -> concussion missile (which is just a thermobaric bomb) -> Proton torpedo -> Photon torpedo -> Quantum torpedo -> transphasic torpedo (highest)[/QUOTE]
You've forgotten the Federation's Tricobalt Torpedo. The tricobalt would arguably be the highest in terms of raw power, but the transphasic 'avoids' shield modulation and delivers most of its explosive power directly onto a target ship's hull.
[QUOTE=Omega133;2370290][QUOTE=alpinedigital;2370081]They are firing from canons, which have to be physically turned to aim, and they simply don't turn fast enough to consider their weapons too threatening.[/QUOTE]
Did you watch episode 4(A New Hope)? The cannons turned considerably fastduring the death star attack(?)[/QUOTE]
Warsies can't shoot for sh*t. It's even become a joke in the Clone Wars series!
Meanwhile, manual cannon rotation will always carry an inferior reaction time compared against automatic systems, even when the gunner is a droid. Heck we only need common sense to know this.
[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;2370762]In Star Trek all that is needed is the Defiant. It may not be planet shattering, but the Defiant has enough firepower to render a planet unlivable.
You've forgotten the Federation's Tricobalt Torpedo. The tricobalt would arguably be the highest in terms of raw power, but the transphasic 'avoids' shield modulation and delivers most of its explosive power directly onto a target ship's hull.[/QUOTE]
Yah I suppose, im personally lsiting ones that ive seen in action. I honestly dont know anything about tri cobalt.
[QUOTE=antaran_1979;2370470]why is it that you try to win by deploying special circumstances to a general encounter? if this was open war and 2 fleets clashed do you really think there would be much time and space for performing "tricks"? just to clarify, would Solo's trick work if there was at least 1 more ISD present? or would anyone in their right mind drop their shield with a dozen or mile long ships shooting at it?[/QUOTE]
Why the hell would you take me so seriously when that was obviously posted as a joke?
:bugeye:
[img]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2993/lolafx.jpg[/img]
If nobody found that humorous, then I must be in the wrong forum. That there's fuckin hillarious to me. Even Data would be laughin at that...
[QUOTE=fedr808;2370669]Well for starters. Ion cannons still work on the principle of the laser, and lasers are wholly inefficient against the Enterprise's shields.
Here is the hierarchy of weaponry that are energy bassed:
lowest ->Lasers -> Plasma weapons -> phasers -> disruptors -> (borg cutting beam maybe??) Highest
.......
In Star Trek, Species 8472 only needs like 9 ish fighter sized ships to do the job.
Also here is the hierarchy of missile systems:
(lowest) Tomahawk missile -> concussion missile (which is just a thermobaric bomb) -> Proton torpedo -> Photon torpedo -> Quantum torpedo -> transphasic torpedo (highest)
[/QUOTE]
i'd gave this hierarchy:
lasers<=ion guns<=forced plasma beams<=turbo lasers<=phasers<=disruptors <=polaron beams<=hushok particle beams<=8472's beams<=V'Ger's plasma energy
and missiles:
modern day chemical warheads<=concussion missiles<=proton torpedo=romulan war fusion warheads<=photon torpedoes<=dominion polaron torpedoes<=romulan plasma torpedoes<=quantum torpedoes<=borg gravimetric torpedoes<=V'Ger's plasma energy (not sure if this is a missile or energy wapon)
[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;2370756]The number of times is immaterial. That it was done proves the tactic is feasible, especially the more ungainly and uncoordinated the opponent.[/QUOTE]
yeah but the number of times=0
not one time during the massive battles did they do a MacGyver. true Feds are a adaptible and creative bunch and it would save thier skin on more then one ocasion, but if several thousand ISDs drop out of hyperspace beyond the Kuiper belt it will be a mexican standoff, with guns blazing all over the place.
[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;2370762]In Star Trek all that is needed is the Defiant. It may not be planet shattering, but the Defiant has enough firepower to render a planet unlivable.
You've forgotten the Federation's Tricobalt Torpedo. The tricobalt would arguably be the highest in terms of raw power, but the transphasic 'avoids' shield modulation and delivers most of its explosive power directly onto a target ship's hull.[/QUOTE]
the tricobalt warheads are construction/demolition tools, very much like the seismic charges in Ep II. they make good bangs but there must be a reason they are not used in tactical engagements.
[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;2370764]Warsies can't shoot for sh*t. It's even become a joke in the Clone Wars series!
Meanwhile, manual cannon rotation will always carry an inferior reaction time compared against automatic systems, even when the gunner is a droid. Heck we only need common sense to know this.[/QUOTE]
this is true afcorse. however would you still drop your GCS's shields if facing 30+ slow moving HTLs and double as that MTL's per ship in a dozen ships per formation cluster? even 1 hit per ship would cause serious damage and for what? just to risk a beaming operation that might not even result in any specacular effects.