Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=alpinedigital;2358614]Maybe the Borg would make use of the DS base for bulkhead material. :shrug:

Either way, and as I keep saying... those SW weapons suck regardless because the best they can do for targetting is sit atop a really slow turret. Any craft with maneuverability can avoid being hit just by not flying in a straight line. I bet every target hit by a star destroyer was a lucky shot.

Oh well. I guess this argument wasn't meant to last forever. ST FTW[/QUOTE]

The Borg would turn the DS into a new Unimatrix :D

[QUOTE=fedr808;2358388]yah, but chances are thats the power they are putting INTO their offensive grid, not whats coming out. Their efficiency is pathetically low.

Look at the death star, it has to be the size of a fucking moon to blow up a planet.

Now look at 8472, what is it? 9 fighter sized ships can take out a planet?

Theyre offensive systems are totally inefficient. So much so the borg probly woudlnt even waste the energy to assimilate them.[/QUOTE]

This is has the most sense that I have ever seen regarding the power levels. If SW ships actually do use that much power yet have barely any output, what is the point of using such bad weaponary?

Phasers were chosen over lasers and plasma cannons in ST because they are more efficient and more destructive for the same power imput. Shouldn't the GFFA have done something similar in the thousands of years their societies have been around?
[QUOTE=alpinedigital;2358614]
Either way, and as I keep saying... those SW weapons suck regardless because the best they can do for targetting is sit atop a really slow turret. Any craft with maneuverability can avoid being hit just by not flying in a straight line. I bet every target hit by a star destroyer was a lucky shot.

Oh well. I guess this argument wasn't meant to last forever. ST FTW[/QUOTE]

Didn't shipboard phasers change from canons and banks to arrays just to address those problems? An omni-directional weapon array across a hull could cover a larger firing area than a turrent fixed to a single spot on the hull. It also would seem harder to hit and disable an imbedded strip than an exposed turrent.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2358620]The Borg would turn the DS into a new Unimatrix :D[/QUOTE]

and probably increase the power levels to actually match the figures warsies claim.

"That's no moon....IT'S A GIANT BORG SPHERE!"

[QUOTE=fedr808;2358388]yah, but chances are thats the power they are putting INTO their offensive grid, not whats coming out. Their efficiency is pathetically low.

Look at the death star, it has to be the size of a fucking moon to blow up a planet.

Now look at 8472, what is it? 9 fighter sized ships can take out a planet?

Theyre offensive systems are totally inefficient. So much so the borg probly woudlnt even waste the energy to assimilate them.[/QUOTE]

the eclipe ssd has a superlaser and it is way way smaller then the ds.

[QUOTE=alpinedigital;2358614] ST FTW[/QUOTE]

yet 6 torps take down your warpcore ffs

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2358722]yet 6 torps take down your warpcore ffs[/QUOTE]

Oh, when? In ST: Nemesis? You're also talking about a ship with more weapons than all of Philadelphia! The Scimitar was BUILT TO HUNT THE ENTERPRISE.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2358616]Uhm... not really... considering they use it all the time nowadays. Granted, you can't go at flank speed, but you can move pretty quick.[/QUOTE]

Yah but when they use it theyre practically at a dead stop or moving very slowly.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2358718]the eclipe ssd has a superlaser and it is way way smaller then the ds.[/QUOTE]

Yah but it is still infinitely larger than 9 fighter ships.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2358722]yet 6 torps take down your warpcore ffs[/QUOTE]

photon torpedos =/= proton torpedos.

[QUOTE=Nexarc;2358622]This is has the most sense that I have ever seen regarding the power levels. If SW ships actually do use that much power yet have barely any output, what is the point of using such bad weaponary?

Phasers were chosen over lasers and plasma cannons in ST because they are more efficient and more destructive for the same power imput. Shouldn't the GFFA have done something similar in the thousands of years their societies have been around?


[/QUOTE]

Yay i said something shmart:D:D

[QUOTE=Nexarc;2358626]and probably increase the power levels to actually match the figures warsies claim.

"That's no moon....IT'S A GIANT BORG SPHERE!"[/QUOTE]

I do not think that there is one redeeming factor in the death star that the brog would or could use.

Maybe the fact that it is filled with people ripe for assimilation...

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2358718]the eclipe ssd has a superlaser and it is way way smaller then the ds.[/QUOTE]

The eclipse superlaser is said to be as strong as one of the death star's component beams. Probably enough to damage a small continent, but not strong enough to destroy the planet. A few tri-cobalt detonations can achieve a similar affect.
[QUOTE=fedr808;2358815]I do not think that there is one redeeming factor in the death star that the brog would or could use.

Maybe the fact that it is filled with people ripe for assimilation...[/QUOTE]

True, yet the borg can see the DS itself as an addition to the borg fleet or as raw material for a few cubes. They would assimilate a ship and its crew if they had the time and energy to do so.

[QUOTE=Nexarc;2358925]


True, yet the borg can see the DS itself as an addition to the borg fleet or as raw material for a few cubes. They would assimilate a ship and its crew if they had the time and energy to do so.[/QUOTE]

I doubt they would add the DS to their fleet, because under its own power the damn thing moves way too slow to be of any use.

I could definitely see them making it into some cubes, anyways, they wouldnt use the death star. Its pretty much against everything the borg beleive in. ie, look at their weapons "cutting beams" "tractor beams", they were made to capture and slice apart enemy ships, they werent made to destroy everything they saw because its not in their nature. The DS has only one purpose and that is to destroy, the borg are wholey against destruction, they only use it when necessary, just look at the way they act, they dotn attack unless provoked, and their ships not only scan the enemy ships first, but they even send out a message telling the enemy ship to surrender and they even declare their intentions, theyre not the type to run into a battle guns ablazing.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2358722]yet 6 torps take down your warpcore ffs[/QUOTE]

yah but it takes two inferior torps to take down your death star ffs.

[QUOTE=fedr808;2358937]yah but it takes two inferior torps to take down your death star ffs.[/QUOTE]

well played. Genius idea to have an access port to the core of both death stars.

[QUOTE=fedr808;2358937]yah but it takes two inferior torps to take down your death star ffs.[/QUOTE]

Those inferior torps as you call them did not destroy the ds. they made the core explode resulting in the destrution of the ds. that is not the same.

the exhaust vent is replaced on the ds2.

the six torps in Nemesis totally overlaoded the warpcore of the enterprise. making it allmost defenceless.

[QUOTE=fedr808;2358809]Yah but it is still infinitely larger than 9 fighter ships.[/QUOTE]agreed but then again the suncrusher is piloted by one person way way smaller then 9 ships and it destroys suns.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2358777]Oh, when? In ST: Nemesis? You're also talking about a ship with more weapons than all of Philadelphia! The Scimitar was BUILT TO HUNT THE ENTERPRISE.[/QUOTE]

the Scimitar was not built to hunt down the enterprise it was build to destroy the UFP;

and even if it has more weapons the philadelphia it still took only 6 torps to bring down the enterprise. if he fired two more she would be debri.

[QUOTE=fedr808;2357635]Yah but the replicators are immune to energy based weaponry, so phasers really have no effect. Replicators would board your ship, probly take over the core room and make their way up from that.[/QUOTE]

First off, Replicators are immune to Asgard and perhaps Ancient energy weapons. Claiming that all energy weapons fail against them is a no limits fallacy.

[QUOTE=fedr808;2356900]stargate has the advantage of even more innovation than star trek, do remember that the starships are created and boost technology thousands of years in the making, so they have been around much longer than fed ships.[/QUOTE]

Not really, I seem to recall the Goa'uld ships being rated with 100-200 megatons. Photon torpedoes easily reach this and probably surpass it, given that Enterprise era ships were using 50 MT antimatter warheads and still utterly failed to take out a TOS Constitution class with four to one odds.

An an uprated Connie pretty much got raped by a 24th century mining ship, so what does that tell you?

[QUOTE]And also remember, we have the advantage of mobility, we can fight you on one planet, run away, when you leave, we go back. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because it's not like those planets are defended by starships, starbases, and satelite defense--oh wait they are.

More still, those planets are shielded.

[QUOTE]Worse case scenario, we just run to the other side of the galaxy no sweat. Or even to another galaxy.[/QUOTE]

It's pretty bad when Stargate's best answer of defeating the enemy is running with their tail between their legs.

[QUOTE]It'll pretty much be like the US vs. Vietcong, with gate being vietcong, the fact is that sure you have ships and they are powerful, but they cant be everywhere at once, and everywhere your ships are is where we are not.[/QUOTE]

You do realize that the federation has thousands of ships, right?

[QUOTE]There are some pretty damn powerful weapons in gate anyways, look at drones.[/QUOTE]

You mean the things that don't cause nuclear explosions when targeted at humans? Why, how very curious. I wonder what would happen if they met a material 23x more powerful than diamond.


[QUOTE=TW Scott;2325508]However Kes is one of a kind and quite Dead by now[/QUOTE]

Actually, there wasn't really anything special about Kes aside from the fact that she was taught to control her powers by Tuvok. Logically, any of her race taught by him or someone similar would recieve the same power.

Not that it really matters.

[QUOTE]. Also Yoda was one of the most powerful of the Old Jedi. Of the New Jedi 12 appretices of Lukes flung a fleet of 30 stardestroyers out of an entire solar system with such force that the ships were crippled. Luke expanded a singularioty to envelope a ship, created a perfect working copy of his wifes ship from dust,
cast mind affecting illusion on the most powerful sith lord ever. There are monks that can instantly transport multiple Star Destroyers from one edge of the Galaxy to the other and so on. Anything done in Trek is far outstripped in SW. [/QUOTE]

So why is it that neither Yoda nor Windu never did any of this? Throughout the prequels we see they've never attempted to do anything similar to this. Nor do we see it in the actual clone wars when it would have been useful. That time when those three CIS frigates entered the system and attacked the ship, what did he do? Did he send them flying back? No, he had them launch all the escape pods and used his force ability to alter the tracjectory of that pod to avoid bolts (not that he really needed any help given the shitty accuracy--even the droids were complaing about how much they suck).



[QUOTE]The time ship Realitvity, Sorry but that Deus Ex Machina only works if you assume ST wins. It also assumes the ship is thousands of years more advanced than current Fed tech (it isn't). Since neither is guaranted it is just blown out of the water.[/QUOTE]

You do know that a 29th century officer thought that Voyager's warpcore had caused an explosion large enough to take out the entire Sol system, right?

[QUOTE]Nanoprobes might be able to assimiliate people, but likely not the hyper advanced Tech of SW. And you would have to assimiliate the right people to get the tech know how. God forbid to try to nano probe certain species or any force Sensitive. Just imagine what Luke would do to the Queen. "We are Borg, we service the Jedi Council. Resistance is futile."[/QUOTE]

No you don't. We've seen in Enterprise and Voyager that simply sticking nanoprobes into a consol or a piece of hardware will quickly start assimilating it. Hell, the Borg were able to make a ship that couldn't go past Warap 1.4 to reach warp 3.9 in a matter of days. Not to mention said unarmed ship was able to tango with a fully armed 22nd century warship.


[QUOTE]Actually we can name several species that you would have no hope against. There are species and races in SW that are so deadly and competent in their fileds that ST does not have an equivalent.[/QUOTE]

Hmm yes, like those pesky teddybears with those spears and stones. How could anyone hope to combat that? Or those deadly battle droids that think marching in rows at the enemy is an effective and effecient strategy when the enemy as automatic plasma weapons.

Or the guys who don't spot said army until they are right on top of them.


[QUOTE] The technology of SW is also far beyond even the ancinet Voth of ST.[/QUOTE]

Yes, like the...and the...or how about...come to think of it, what is more advanced about the Empire? Their hyperdrive and communications? Why two advantages.

[QUOTE] Borg are no threat becuase they just don;t have the power generation capabilities to adapt and resist the weapons of SW.[/QUOTE]

I'm always amazed at how you just lie through your teeth. Your ICS wank was disproven multiple times. Or are you prepared to explain how an asteroid field acts as a good shield against three Venator class ships then?


[QUOTE] Yes a Cube can adapt and resist the firepower of a Galaxy class Star ship.[/QUOTE]

Which has shown ten times the firepower of an Imperial warship.

[QUOTE] However the main guns of a ISD produce far more power each than the entire GCS produces total.[/QUOTE]

Which is why there was no massive explosions when in two instances, capital ships engaged each other in atmosphere and there were no massive nuclear explosions.

[QUOTE] To put it in better terms the Borg cubes are wearing second chance standard kevlar vests rated to stop firearms upto and including .45ACP. [/QUOTE]

Yes, but unfortunately, SW forces use energy weapons--which the borg can adapt to.

[QUOTE]However the SW ISD is using 120mm cannons loaded with HEAT or APSDU rounds. There is no contest here. [/QUOTE]

Did we also mention that the Borg resist multiple antimatter warheads moving at incredible speeds?



[QUOTE]Actually the deciding factor is Strategic speed. SW has it in spades. What good is Transporters and Nimble ships when suddenly without any arning a moon sized battle station appears above Earth fires once and then the planet is gone. Just as suddenly the moon sized battle station hyperspaces back out faster than any of you scanners could even lock on to the vessel.[/QUOTE]

Ignoring the fact that they don't know where Earth is? Also, not to mention that the Death Star is nothing more than a weapon of terror and given the immense level of stupidity shown by the characters, they wouldn't at all find anything wrong with a bunch of ships approaching them.

Which would be all the more gut wrenching funny when a full volley of torpedoes lock onto that rather large exhaust port...

[QUOTE=TW Scott;2325514]The earth club 501st dresses in white, however in the EU the 501st wear black they are a unit with sole loyalty to Vader and NOT the Emperor. They are the best unit in the Empire as they cross train with Vader Noghri commando. The unit on Endor was the Emperor Guard second best unit in the Empire but the difference between 501st and Emperor Guard is like the diffence between a SEAL and a Marine. Both will kick your ass, but we all know the SEAL will take the Marine.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, the Emperor said it was the best legion. Either that means that the 501st is not the best or that they're the 501st. In fact, Battle Front II goes all out and says it's the 501st.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2325940]Legion ???? Howmany Stormtroopers do you see on endor ??? Twenty ? Thirty ? Hardly a legion.

The troopers are defending a building in the middle of a forestplanet. That's a seriously disadvange. I think you don't really understand Guerillia Warfare.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because that's what people are complaining about. That they were heavily outnumbered--oh wait, it was the fact that they all started chasing the rebels and the carebears back into the forest to be anally raped.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;2327156]I love how people denigrate the Ewoks. It's silly really. Those small alienas were every bit as strong as a normal human despite being only half the height and 1/8th the total mass. The Ewoks also were a warrior/hunter race who often fought and defeated creatures on par with wookies and gamoreans. The Ewoks also had the home terrian advantage, Impressive engineering skills and sheer numbers.[/QUOTE]

Keep trying, I don't think you've deluded yourself enough. Sorry, but when god damn stone age enemies overwhelm space age soldiers, we have a problem. Even more so because it wasn't that the troopers were overwhelmed, but that they were complete and utter morons for running into a forest where they could be picked off.

Which is exactly what happend.

[QUOTE]There were 1500 hundred Ewoks, 50 Rebel Commandoes and the Leadership of not just the three Rebel legends but 4 Ewok legends as well. The Imperial side had roughly 500 StormTroopers. In todaysd terms that would be 1500 army rangers, 50 Navy SEALS, and 7 Action Hero equivalents versus 500 marines with only 3 light vehicles in support. It would be a slaughter. As it was the Ewoks still lost over 300 of their number.[/QUOTE]

No there wasn't. We barely saw dozens of them at a time. In fact, they would overtake the storm troopers because again, the idiots were stupid enough to leave the area around their bunker to chase the rebels into the forest, despite it being an obvious trap.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2328238]It's not ridiculous to have a shield, ofcourse it's logical. I was referring to that it is ridiculous presuming that nothing can go wrong because you have a temporal shield. timetravel will still be hazardous.[/QUOTE]

Their ships can detect changes in the time line and can pinpoint the exact year, date, and hour.

Try again.

[QUOTE]We all know there is a legion there and a at-at. Just performing a well-loved trekkie-tactic.
You don't see a legion on-screen so there is no legion. Do you undrestand what i mean?[/QUOTE]

You also don't see thousands of Ewoks, so yeah I agree.

[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2329952]1. The fling 30 ISDs out of system is true, I can find the name of the book and quote it if you want.[/QUOTE]

G canon > T Canon > C canon

Yours falls under the lowest one there. Nowhere in T or G do we see that stuff, not even performed by the most powerful Jedi Master; Yoda.

[QUOTE]2. Why is it ever damn time trek gets it's ass handed to it trek fans go running to Q? Because there is a 100percent chance of all Q sitting back with a bag of popcorn to watch the show as SW takes out ST. Q has also come close to destroying humanity, so I don't see him being a big help at all.[/QUOTE]

Why is it that SW fans run to ICS and multiple wanky Jedi feats that go against higher canon when they know full well the contradictions?


[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2330029]The worst vs debates are ones the with everyone against everone else because it not a debate any more. I look around the web and see all sorts of idiots having Everyone from all of SW-all timelines ganging up on Halo and then just forget the Forerunner when they say their allowed and go on about how Covie ships are taken down by MT weapons, which is not true.[/QUOTE]

No, they are taken down by MT weapons. You can't get anything higher with fusion level warheads. And then of course, there was that incident in Halo 3 with a falling piece of rock punching right through a Covenant cruiser like it was made of paper. Or the fact that in Halo Wars, we see that non-MT level weapon is more than enough to damage a Covenant ship and the UNSC colony ship turned warship.


[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2330286]1. Will then we can go with just-post Yavin when the first SSDs start rolling out, and chose a good date for ST.[/QUOTE]

Post Nemesis sounds good.


[QUOTE]3. Borg win??:confused:Before or after the 200 GT Laser bolt kills the Cube they send ONE at a time against enemies. Or after the Death Star blows up all their planets? I go with the Empire because it built 60 percent of the second DS in only SIX MONTHS; a 900 kilometer station, 60 percent done in SIX MONTHS.[/QUOTE]

Keep mastubating to that. They already had all the tools and systems put in to build that second station. Remember how the first one took almost two decades? Oh right, forgot about that one didn't you?

Not to mention building a massive station is retarded because it cuts back on what you can put out as far as your fleet is concerned.


[QUOTE]Even the UNSC would kick Borg butt since they use bullets, also, Super MAC platforms=5.8 TT Coil guns, powered by, yes, you guessed it! Fusion! The same power source that gives the Covenant planet glassing firepower.[/QUOTE]

You are aware that the Borg don't just beam down and start sticking people right? They literally tear out chunks of your cities and assimilate them. And sorry, fusion doesn't have the power to produce that sort of effect.

[QUOTE] The between 60-200 TT of the PoA reactors that took out the first Halo ring. [/QUOTE]

Or more likely it caused a chain reaction on the ring.

[QUOTE]And don't even get me start on the Covenant or Forerunner, Covie plasma weapons make TL look like pea-shooters.[/QUOTE]

If only because SW ships pretty much do use pea shooters that rarely extend past 10 MT.

[QUOTE] And if a Forerunner ship even farts in the general direction of a star it goes nova from the hole in reality just opened up in its core, and then you have a Forerunner AI throwing around 37,000 ton Dreadnoughts/Keyships like small fightercraft.[/QUOTE]

And if we want to pit uber races against each other, we can all laugh while the 31st UFP turns the Forerunner planet into a molten ball of lead centuries before they even evolve.

[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2330407]And they would control Earth far sooner if they send say, 12 Cube since we know the one from The Best of Both Worlds part two after taking Picard and wiped out 40 UFP ships.[/QUOTE]

The Borg don't really care that much about Earth, as seen in Voyager where we're told that they often test new methods of assimilation on targets around the same level as the UFP.



[QUOTE]And then they have never showen the ability to withstand GIGATONS to TERATONS of energy which is what Wars throws around.[/QUOTE]

They took the entire output of the Enterprise D without breaking a sweat before going off to rape 39 starships. Even when sitting in orbit, their ship can generate GT level energy.


[QUOTE] And do you even know how many inhabited systems there are in the SW galaxy? 12 MILLION, one million of which the Empire control. Borg have a few thousand systems. [/QUOTE]

Yes, and most of those planets are habited by small, dirt cities filled with thousands of people at best. Even more so, if there are so many of these planets, why are there in fact, only a few thousand senator seats in the Empire?

[QUOTE]And nearly every planet in the SW galaxy has planetary shields FAR beyond what the Borg could throw at them.[/QUOTE]

Bullshit, no SW planet has ever shown that. And sorry, but a VFX error on a planet doesn't count as a shield. Provide actual quotes of a shield, because the largest one was a theater shield.

[QUOTE] Wars takes this: More firepower.[/QUOTE]

No they don't. It was stated in the RotS novel that the weapons that could be seen from the planetside coiuld destroy a small town...10 Mt max. Empire Strikes Back had about .5-3 MT for their weapons against the asteroids and of course, we see that in Downfall of a Droid that Anakin's plan of eradicating Grievous's asteroid field defense plan doesn't consist of just shooting at them, since using asteroids to protect yourself against 200 GT firepower is like using a box of sparkles and tossing them in the way of a tank shell.

Nor do we see such power in Jedi Crash, where the bolts are exploding in the atmosphere and we in fact see both clones, droids, and jedi fighting in open atmosphere with no horrible side effects that one would normally attribute to multi-gt weapons going off in the atmosphere.


[QUOTE] Tougher armor[/QUOTE]

You mean the armor that can't resist asteroid impacts or the firepower from Clone War era walkers that have tank level firepower? Sorry, but high level MT easily trumps that.

[QUOTE] and shields.[/QUOTE]

You mean the shields of multiple frigates that fall against about two dozen of fighters in a matter of minutes in Storm over Ryloth?


[QUOTE] Faster FTL within their own galaxy.[/QUOTE]

Granted.

[QUOTE] Has 25,000 ISDs of both type-I and II plus millions of smaller vessels.[/QUOTE]

The UFP has about 60,000+ capital ships.

[QUOTE] Planet destroying weapons, etc.etc.etc. [/QUOTE]

And the borg have a mine that can disperse nanoprobes over an entire solar system in seconds.

[QUOTE]The Borg have NOTHING that the SW can not defeat. [/QUOTE]

Based on what?


[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2330975]Your telling me the Death Star is in the Kt range then since that Kiloton is at best?? So then mind telling me why before ICS SW people were shall in the 10-22 GT range when going up against ST?[/QUOTE]

Because they're morons?:shrug:

Now how about you actually prove those numbers.

[QUOTE]And must I point out that if your talking about Naboo on the planetary shields they got those sometime during the Clone Wars. The one in TPM was a theater shield used just to keep the army safe from Droid tanks. [/QUOTE]

Which works like jack shit when a solid object passes through them. Have the SW world ever heard of torpedoes or bombs? The carpet bombing the CIS did in Ryloth would have been more than enough.

[QUOTE]And when did ships ever land through them? Remember how the DS2 had a Planetary Shield to keep it safe? Or are you going to tell me know that all those ships that hit the shield didn't blow up?[/QUOTE]

The Death Star was a secret project that required a ground base emitter to protect it--an emitter that couldn't even project part of that shield over the base.


[QUOTE]If your talking about TESB they landed OUTSIDE the range of the rebel shield and then took out the the generator so the Empire could land more forces without having to go through rebel defense forces. The rebels never had the money for a full size shield after the Ion Cannon and even then that would be a dead give away telling the Empire where they are. [/QUOTE]

Prove that they didn't have a full theater shield. We see in multiple examples that solid objects pass through shields. We saw it in The Clone Wars movie, during the Clone Wars (the one after Jedi Crash), and the Phantom Menace.


[QUOTE]So since their Cubes got destroyed every time why didn't they realize that maybe they should send 3 Cubes? If they really have hundreds of thousands or millions 3 would be nothing to them... but then this are the idiots who let enemy broaders walk around on their ships for HOURS and not do a thing, so I guess I should't be expecting them to be even that smart.[/QUOTE]

Which has nothing to do with their ability to think, but just the way they think. The borg don't really notice visitors because of how pathetically small they are in comparison to the Borg. The borg have trillions of minds working together and you think it fears seven minds wandering about?

[QUOTE]I am not forgetting that they would assimilate SW tech. What I am saying is by the time their slow-ass Warp gets them back with the tech the Empire will have long since blown up the Borg empire.[/QUOTE]

The Borg's "slow ass warp" allowed Voyager to cross 20,000 LY in what is no more than a day. And their network of transwarp hubs allow them to cross about 25,000 LY in minutes.

[QUOTE]Yes, it can be done. But lets look at the reasons that they were destroyed.

1. DS1: destroyed because of one hard to hit weak-point that Trakin didn't care about. [/QUOTE]

A target that any UFP torpedo could lock onto and hit with ease, as seen in Final Frontier.

[QUOTE]2. DS2: destroyed because the Emperor was an idiot. If the second DS had been completed then nothing would have stopped. [/QUOTE]

Against underpowered Rebel ships, suggesting that 10- Mt firepower couldn't stop it. However, torpeodes with at least 10x the firepower is a different story.

[QUOTE]So do you really think the Borg, who shamble along once they outnumber an enemy, let enemy forces have free run of the ship as long as they don't damage anything, stand a chance? We all know the Borg are not the great superpower they are made out to be because they are idiots. SW outnumbers them and can one-two-shot them, the end.[/QUOTE]

And again, how often do the Borg choose to send in drones? The answer is rarely, often only for investigation. The drones themselves stay on the ship as they tear your cities and starships apart.

[QUOTE]Give the empire a fish, it beats you up for more fish and learns how to fish.
Teach the Brog to fish... they shamble along like zombies and don't get any.[/QUOTE]

Go fuck yourself, since you clearly don't understand how the Borg work or why.

[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2331205]Yes, very true. But one flaw: the Borg know they will face sufficient resistance from UFP fleets. Every time they attacked they went right at Earth with one Cube. No one ever said "hey, why don't we send TWO Cubes. Have one attack here and draw off that huge UFP fleet then send in the other Cube will they have their backs turned to take the Earth."[/QUOTE]

Already explained above.



[QUOTE]Sorry, I meant to say transmit the data back... which even at Transwarp would take months if its just in the SW galaxy. [/QUOTE]

No it wouldn't. It would take days. Try again.

[QUOTE]So the reasons they got destroyed don't matter? Lets see, Luke had Force on his side and if Han hadn't returned and shot Vader the DS would have destroyed Yavin 4. The second DS was used as bait to draw the rebel fleet and Luke to the Emperor. The only reason the ISDs lose was because the Emperor wanted to use the destruction of the fleet to help him turn Luke.
If that AT-ST hadn't been captured then then the Ewoks and rebels would have lose. You see? Look at all this and you will see that if the Empire had acted just a bit smarter at these two points like at others then they would have won. [/QUOTE]

Yes, if they hadn't acted like complete and utter morons, they would have won.

[QUOTE]How do you get punked a second time? Watch the movies yourself, the Emperor used the second Death Star as bait to draw them into a trap and kill two birds with one stone; he failed because he was an idiot who thought he could live forever using the Force and didn't think Vader would chuck him down into the reactor.[/QUOTE]

...You are prowars, right?

[QUOTE]Yes, but the Borg, unlike say the Flood can be taken out or at least crippled by a virus, such as at the end of Voy, correct?[/QUOTE]

The Borg were temporarely disrupted by an advanced future virus that they adapted to later, as we saw with their sphere still being able to keep going.

[QUOTE] The Borg can just be bio-weaponed or computered virus to death like Voy did. Look at what the Empire can do and ask yourself "what can the Borg do against that?" Fact is that within their own galaxy the Empire can pick where they want to battle against the Borg and outnumber them 10, 20 or 30 to one because the Empire are own their home turf and can out ran Borg ships which at Transwarp take MONTHS to cross a galaxy.[/QUOTe]

No they can't.

First of all, we've almost never seen a large engagment in Star Wars. The largest battle during the Clone Wars series thus far includes about a dozen ships. The largest we've seen the UFP pull off is about 600 and the borg are said to be able to gather thousands of ships for an all out invasion.

And again, 20,000 LY in a day. It would take the Borg less than a week to cross the galaxy.



[QUOTE]Correct, flaw found: nearly everone in the SW galaxy owns a blaster. Put 10 basic SW people against 10 basic Borg and you most likely get Borg with smoking holes in their chest. [/QUOTE]

Or more likely, eight out of ten of those people will miss horribly given that even Clones can miss slow moving targets stalking towards them from about ten feet away. You then have two drones going down and then the rest adapting. After cornering the idiots, the Borg assimilate them and you have 18 drones instead of 10.

Or even more likely, the Borg tear out the ground that the idiots are standing on and drag them up to be assimilated.


[QUOTE]Yes, the Borg would assimilate the stuff if they could get to it. And what are the tech they captured from small ships going to do? Bore Star Destroyers to death? Look at it, on the defense the Borg would win fo decades until the Empire scouts out the Milky Way. On the defense in their own galaxy the Empire can not lose since they have speed and numbers on their side. [/QUOTE]

The Empire lost to a bunch of Rebels who were inferior to them. The borg easily surpass the 10 MT yields of the Empire by a more than comfortable margin and we know that the Borg have millions of ships, most of which we see to be cubes and spheres. Even spheres themselves overpower UFP ships with ease.

The Empire is so fucked it isn't even funny.

[QUOTE]Yes? And why would the Empire give the Borg a chance if they know what the Borg do? Any Borg Cube would be blown up on sight if the Empire knew how the Borg work.[/QUOTE]

Assuming they could scratch the paint? Probably. Given they can't? Not really.

[QUOTE]True, but depends on what races meet. Empire and Feds could be along the lines of trade happening. Borg and Empire meet the Empire will beat the Borg back to the stone age the moment they open fire.[/QUOTE]

No, not really. The Empire is more dickish than the Dominion.

[QUOTE]Look at the points I made, the the Borg can only win for a few decades within their own galaxy. In their galaxy the Empire can pick their battles so they outnumber the Borg. [/QUOTE]

No, you made claims and backed up nothing.



[QUOTE=ProphetofWisdom;2331532]When Picard was taken by the Borg in The Best of Both Worlds. Your not going to tell me one of the Federation's best Captains won't know even know a thing about the size of the UFP fleet-which I would guess would range from 10,000-25,000 starships, and not see the UFP could easily put up a good fight the second time around? Once Picard became part of the Borg they should have know everything he did about the Federation.
But since they didn't use what they learned at all: Borg=idiot space zombies.[/QUOTE]

The Borg aren't launching a massive invaison at Earth. How much do you understand that they don't really care? A full out invasion consists of hundreds to thosuands of ships. Do you not see a problem when the Borg keep sending one or two cubes to Earth?



[QUOTE]Will depending on their base of operations within the SW galaxy, without a Hub normal Transwarp takes months. And I do know how to attack something, I have a dozen or so RTS games that I am very good at. I'm just saying the Borg have never seem to know how to use their forces correctly. [/QUOTE]

Yes, an RTS game means your an expert in warefare.:m:

Now, as for your argument, I've already pointed to the 20,000 LY issue.

[QUOTE]Will it would take the Empire decades to scout out safe Hyperspace routes in the ST galaxy. So either the Borg gain tech that way or go through some sort of portal or something to attack the Empire. And in the end the Empire can just swamp the Borg in ship numbers... you have to wonder how many ISDs that 60 percent of the DS2 could have made.[/QUOTE]

And you have to wonder what kind of idiot decides to sacrifice those much in terms of ships just to build a massive space station.

[QUOTE]Yes, all I said was that nearly everone in the SW galaxy owns a weapon. I know the Borg have hand weapons, they just don't know how to use them.
You never see them using them to force enemy targets to stay under cover, and even then they just shamble along and even once they adapt can be taken out through brute force.[/QUOTE]

We've seen the Borg use them at least a few times without problem. Seven even points one at Chakotay in Scorpion. Another firest at 8472 in the same episode and damages the wall behind it.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2359020]agreed but then again the suncrusher is piloted by one person way way smaller then 9 ships and it destroys suns.[/QUOTE]

And is loss within a black hole.

Of course, the UFP can pretty much blow apart stars thanks to a certain scientist, and they can do it with their standard torpedo cases. No special ship required.