Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=TW Scott;2224520]Actually they were beginning to scan the device when Soren launched it. They knew it was trilithium the same way that the average shmuck knows a modern nuclear weapon has plutonium. They may even understand the basic theory, but they don;t understand how he does it.

[COLOR="Red"]Uhm, no. It doesn't take them hours on end to get a detailed scan of a little missile... just because the Science Officers in Star Wars are... wait... what science officers in Star Wars? You never really SEE them... :p[/COLOR]

As for the Empire, remember Palpatine was loved by the Core Worlds. In fact many, many worlds had no flipping clue what the Rebllions problem was, even after Alderaan. In fact after Alderaan Palpatine managed to win back the hearts of most of the Alderaanians that had been off planet by setting them up on the deep core world of Byss,.

[COLOR="Red"]This just goes to show how STUPID the people in the Star Wars galaxy really are... [/COLOR]

Honestly if you take the story element out of it, the Empire was designed to survive. And peoples living under what was the Federation would start enjoying freedoms they'd never had before. The Empire did have free speach, minimal corruption and a booming economy. While some people would despir the loss of communism others would apreciate the ability to own real businesses again.[/QUOTE]

Uh... no, not really... minimal corruption? Booming economy? What economy? If you were the emporers butt buddy maybe...

[quote]Droids and slavery were an integral part of the Galactic economy and programmed for a number of uses, including construction, excavation, repair, piloting, maintenance, mining and other labor. The advantages of using such droids were that they could work in inaccessible and dangerous environments that most sentient species could not, as well as not needing pay or other perks biological sentients would.

Despite being outlawed by the Republic under the Galactic Constitution, slavery was still practiced in lawless areas such as the Outer Rim and even clandestinely in areas closer to the more civilised Core, one example being in the Republic controlled Telos IV Citadel Station, upon which a Twi'lek dancing girl was kept as an indentured worker due to the gambling debt of another.[1] Slavery was apparently abolished, or at least greatly frowned upon, in the Republic by the time of the Battle of Naboo, as evidenced by to Padmé Amidala's apparent shock at Anakin Skywalker's slavery [2]. [/quote]

[quote]Under Republic law, all wage-earning beings were required to pay income tax. This tax was collected by the Republic Tax Collection Agency. When the Trade Federation complained about piracy in the outlying star systems, the Republic Senate passed a tariff on those formerly free trade zones. This action upset the Trade Federation viceroy prompting him to blockade and invade the small planet of Naboo. Right before the Clone Wars, a fifteen percent transit tax was levied on all tickets sold in an effort to raise emergency funds for the government. After the Galactic Republic changed to the Galactic Empire, tax laws were consolidated into the Imperial Revenue Codes and placed under control of the Imperial Taxation Bureau. [/quote]

[quote]Many planets maintained stock exchanges and banks, but it was uncommon for these institutions' influence to extend beyond their local star system. Many of those banking institutions that served clients beyond their local area stored their collateral on Aargau or Muunilinst. Major interstellar banking institutions included the Bank of the Core, the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Galactic Banking Network and the InterGalactic Bank of Kuat. [/quote]

I'm trying to find more information about the so called "free society"... but those three points there are kind of... heh, embarassing. Even WITH hyperdrive... most planets kept their economy internal... so if they collapsed, what happened? Did the Empire come help them out? Or did they just blow the planet up?

[QUOTE=TW Scott;2224538]Well did you notice that the first time he did it, they had NO CLUE what the missle was. Yeah they saw it, did nothing, then the star was going nova and they figured things out. They know the missle did it, they know the missle had trilithium. That's like knowing gunpowder has charcoal, sulfer, and salt peter, of little use without the proper ratio.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and the second time they saw it they had more detail... between those incidents and the DS9 incidents, they're probably pretty damn sure of what it is and what it does and why...

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2224547]Star trek is plausible ? hmmm
transporters. yeah right
[COLOR="Red"]Already being worked on if you care to look close enough[/COLOR]
replicating mines : yeah right
[COLOR="Red"]von neumann machines- [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_machine[/url] [/COLOR]
flying into a blackHole and coming back; yeah right
[COLOR="Red"]Why not if you can create a mass-reduction field and alter the laws of physics within a localized area.[/COLOR]
holodecks that create matter: yeah right
[COLOR="Red"]Why not? [/COLOR]
Q : not going there
[COLOR="Red"]As I said before - ignore them for this... the Q are a plot device, nothing more :)[/COLOR]
almost every species is bi-padel: yeah right
[COLOR="Red"]Hey, why not... it's more efficient than four or six...[/COLOR]

ST mature ? omfg st is just so gay[/QUOTE]

*chuckles* omfg st is just so gay... see... that's what I'm talking about. You aren't mature enough to appreciate it...

Now, lets look at the tech we got from Star Trek

[url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech.html[/url]

Cell Phones derived from Communicators

Medical Tech - CAT's, MRI's, and other scanners derived from McCoy's equipment

VOX Tech - "universal" translators able to do near-real-time translation of languages - this is important believe it or not

Teleportation - [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=249#transporter[/url] and [url]http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf[/url]

We (jokingly) even have an "intergalactic monetary unit", the QUID - [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1232[/url]

How about a Tricorder? This device is used on the Mars Rovers - [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=568[/url]

How about Focused Ultrasound Surgery - [url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech-4.html[/url]

Then there's the Trek-Famous "Transparent Aluminum" - well, we have that too! Aluminium OxyNitrate [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=481[/url]

How about a real life PHASER? Sure, it doesn't work QUITE the same, but the idea is there. Instead of being a PHASed Energy Rectification weapon, it's a Personnel Halting And Stimulation Response weapon - non-lethal directed energy weapon - [url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech-2.html[/url]

Finally, how about life detectors? - [url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech-1.html[/url]

Now, we also got some things like the Sliding Door, Touch Screen Liquid Crystal displays, the Palm Pilot [quote]"When I designed the UI (user interface) for the Palm OS back in '93, my first sketches were influenced by the UI of the Enterprise bridge panels,'' said Rob Haitani, product design architect for Palm-One Inc., the Milpitas firm that makes the popular handheld personal computers. [/quote] and more... all from STAR TREK.

Tell me... what has Star Wars given us?

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2224562]i don't really understand what all the fuss is about it's ST vs SW not Fed's vs Empire.

what i don't understand is how the hell would that torp even last that long. the temperatures of a sun is tremendous so how the hell does that torp even get to his destination ? It can't possible have enough energy to sustain his shield for very long at those temperatures. oh yeah i forgot it's ST. and St is far more mature ... as if[/QUOTE]

*grins slightly* this from someone claiming his laser focusing crystals can emit a lightsabre beam without melting, or focus a planet cracking superlaser without instantly shattering...

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2224646]and more... all from STAR TREK.

Tell me... what has Star Wars given us?[/QUOTE]

[i]From[/i] Star Trek or just SF conventions working themselves into mainstream culture?

Although I'll agree that any similarity in names MAY be due to a Star Trek influence.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2224401]Uh... no... using a pretty dye to color your glass =/= weaponizing a potent toxin for use... now... accidentally poisoning your enemies and yourself with said toxin, that's about on par... And in DS9 and TNG and Generations, we saw a bomb DESIGNED to use TRILITHIUM to HALT THE NUCLEAR REACTIONS of a star... so don't say we've seen a few "dirty bombs"... that's a load of bullshit and you know it...[/quote]
You fail at reading comprehension. I said that the [i]federation[/i] has never been shown to know how to use trilithium as anything other than a toxin. [quote]
Yes, I do. By halting a nuclear reaction, it stops the fusion inside a star... and thus the star implodes. The implosion, in a star of sufficient mass, causes an explosion called a SUPER NOVA. There is no "freak science"... it's a NUCLEAR INHIBITOR... similar to the control rods in a nuclear reactor...[/quote]
Again you fail at reading comprehension. I said it's unknown what exactly you have to do to/with the trilithium to use it to halt fusion in a star. You claimed that the federation "knew" that it was simply a matter of "spreading it around" inside a star, when in fact that is no evidence that it's anywhere near that simple. For all you know, making the weapon requires a sub-temporal quantum loop field generator, or some other imaginary piece of tech that the federation doesn't have a clue how to build.
[quote]Yes, it took years back in the 1930's... have you never heard of technological progression? The more advanced your technology, the faster it progresses... it's a well known fact of life...[/quote]
The point is that even if the federation actually understand the principles on which fusion-halting trilithium weapons work - and we have no evidence that they do - it might still take them years to actually fabricate a working weapon.
[quote]
And yet a FEDERATION SCIENTIST with a limited budget was able to make a handful of these working with incredibly stupid Klingons... [/quote]
Sorin was not just some federation scientist - as was already pointed out, he's from an ancient, nearly-extinct race with unknown technological abilities. There is not evidence that he even invented the weapon himself - it might have been some gadget that his race came up with hundreds or thousands of years ago. [quote]
You are incredibly stupid you know that... if they REALLY didn't know what that weapon did and HOW it did it after that scan, why the FUCK would they give a shit about it? "Hey, look! He's shooting a missile at the sun... fucking dumbass!" is what the response would be if they didn't know that "Oh, shit, that weapon will halt all nuclear fusion in the star and cause it to implode, then go supernova, destroying EVERYTHING the goddamn solar system!" [/quote]
For god's sake, did you even watch the movie? They didn't even notice the missile launch until AFTER the star exploded, at which point they noted that someone had launched something toward it a short time ago.
[quote]Actually, the only reason for it is that our current methods of "scanning" use particles LARGER than those we are trying to scan... there are various proposed theories on how to overcome this, but they are just that - theories...[/quote]
Oh look, the guy who tried to teach himself physics rather than actually taking a classes doesn't understand the uncertainty principle. How shocking :rolleyes:

Here's a free lesson for you: The uncertainty principle is not merely a "technological problem" that could be overcome with sufficiently advanced scanners. It is a fundamental property of matter and energy. Getting around it would violate fundamental principles of physics, and any scifi that proposes to get around it is proposing fantasy technology.
[quote]You sound much like the people who, back in the late 1890's, thought a person flying a heavier than air machine was impossible... now look at what we're sending up there...[/QUOTE]
So far as I know, no scientist in the early 1890s claimed heavier-than-air powered flight was fundamentally impossible. That would be a pretty stupid claim, since obviously birds can do it. But if you want to argue that you can get around the uncertainty principle you aren't just arguing with me, you're arguing with virtually every physicist on the planet.

[QUOTE=antaran_1979;2224497]
facts: the Feds did get a clear scan of Soren's solar probe on the Amagosa opservatory, the Feds do have stable sources of trilitium.
[/QUOTE]
No, they didn't. They detected the launch of a missile from the surface, which is not at all the same thing. The missile itself had a cloaking device. They don't appear to even take note of the launch until after the star explodes and they're trying to figure out what the hell just happened.

Edit: And in case you're talking about the scene where data and geordi were trying to scan the probes with their tricorders, they explicitly say that the tricorders can't read anything because of some sort of jamming. Geordi says something like "someone went through a lot of trouble to shield this place," then they put the tricorders away and are reduced to simply looking around at crap. They notice that one of the solar probes seem to have been modified, but before they can actually examine it Sorin comes in and stops them.

[QUOTE=Nasor;2224721]You fail at reading comprehension. I said that the [i]federation[/i] has never been shown to know how to use trilithium as anything other than a toxin.

[COLOR="Red"]That's like saying because we haven't USED an AntiMatter Bomb, we, today, dont' know how to make one. We know how to make em... we just physically CANNOT do so yet.[/COLOR]

Again you fail at reading comprehension. I said it's unknown what exactly you have to do to/with the trilithium to use it to halt fusion in a star. You claimed that the federation "knew" that it was simply a matter of "spreading it around" inside a star, when in fact that is no evidence that it's anywhere near that simple. For all you know, making the weapon requires a sub-temporal quantum loop field generator, or some other imaginary piece of tech that the federation doesn't have a clue how to build.

[COLOR="Red"]The evidence of that fact is that a crazed maniac (a bright one) was able to work with stupid KLINGONS to build not one, but TWO of these missiles... The fact that when the missile failed to launch, it simply exploded, instead of creating a "sub temporal quantum loop" or any other mumbo jumbo. It's pretty evident... [/COLOR]

The point is that even if the federation actually understand the principles on which fusion-halting trilithium weapons work - and we have no evidence that they do - it might still take them years to actually fabricate a working weapon.

[COLOR="Red"]Not likely. Look how quickly the crew of Voyager built the Delta Flyer... on their own.[/COLOR]

Sorin was not just some federation scientist - as was already pointed out, he's from an ancient, nearly-extinct race with unknown technological abilities. There is not evidence that he even invented the weapon himself - it might have been some gadget that his race came up with hundreds or thousands of years ago.
For god's sake, did you even watch the movie? They didn't even notice the missile launch until AFTER the star exploded, at which point they noted that someone had launched something toward it a short time ago.

[COLOR="Red"]Yes, and they had a pretty good idea of what had happened...[/COLOR]

Oh look, the guy who tried to teach himself physics rather than actually taking a classes doesn't understand the uncertainty principle. How shocking :rolleyes:

[COLOR="Red"]The shocking part is how linearly you think... it's people like you that doom this world to live in the technological dark ages. [/COLOR]

Here's a free lesson for you: The uncertainty principle is not merely a "technological problem" that could be overcome with sufficiently advanced scanners. It is a fundamental property of matter and energy. Getting around it would violate fundamental principles of physics, and any scifi that proposes to get around it is proposing fantasy technology.

[COLOR="Red"]Here's a free lesson for you... at one point in time, mankind KNEW the UNIVERSE revolved around the Earth. Later, mankind KNEW the universe revolved around the SUN. Today, we KNOW the earth is an infantasmal spec in the universe. Today, we KNOW that the uncertainty principle is not able to be solved... imagine, then, what we will know ten years down the road... I like to use a quote from Men in Black for people like you, which you will see later.[/COLOR]

So far as I know, no scientist in the early 1890s claimed heavier-than-air powered flight was fundamentally impossible. That would be a pretty stupid claim, since obviously birds can do it. But if you want to argue that you can get around the uncertainty principle you aren't just arguing with me, you're arguing with virtually every physicist on the planet.[/QUOTE]

[quote]A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.[/quote]

Physicists have theories... they have possible scenarios... PROVE TO ME, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you can NEVER, EVER, overcome the Uncertainty Principle...

[QUOTE=Nasor;2224734]No, they didn't. They detected the launch of a missile from the surface, which is not at all the same thing. The missile itself had a cloaking device. They don't appear to even take note of the launch until after the star explodes and they're trying to figure out what the hell just happened.[/QUOTE]

Uh, wrong planet... the one Picard was on they got a pretty damn clear scan of...

EDIT - well... that would have been Veridiann III, not Amigossa.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2224893]That's like saying because we haven't USED an AntiMatter Bomb, we, today, dont' know how to make one. We know how to make em... we just physically CANNOT do so yet.[/quote]
The point is that WE DONT KNOW if the federation even understands the principles on which the stellar bomb works. You think that just because we understand the principles behind making an antimatter bomb, the federation must logically know how to make a stellar bomb? What?
[quote]The evidence of that fact is that a crazed maniac (a bright one) was able to work with stupid KLINGONS to build not one, but TWO of these missiles..[/quote]
The Klingons didn't have jack shit to do with actually building the bomb, they were just mercenaries that Sorin hired to steal some of the necessary materials for him. Also, [b]as has already been repeatedly explained[/b] we don't know if Sorin invented the bomb. He was from an ancient race with unknown technological abilities. You are trying to argue that just because some ancient alien was able to build it, the federation would be able to build it, which is a retarded argument. [quote]The fact that when the missile failed to launch, it simply exploded, instead of creating a "sub temporal quantum loop" or any other mumbo jumbo. It's pretty evident...[/quote]
No it isn't, dumbass. If the purpose of the probe is to halt fusion in a star, then how would you even know if it detonated properly on a planet's surface?
[quote]
Here's a free lesson for you... at one point in time, mankind KNEW the UNIVERSE revolved around the Earth. Later, mankind KNEW the universe revolved around the SUN. Today, we KNOW the earth is an infantasmal spec in the universe. Today, we KNOW that the uncertainty principle is not able to be solved... imagine, then, what we will know ten years down the road... I like to use a quote from Men in Black for people like you, which you will see later.

Physicists have theories... they have possible scenarios... PROVE TO ME, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you can NEVER, EVER, overcome the Uncertainty Principle...[/QUOTE]
Of course it is possible that physics is wrong. But you were trying to argue
that SW was more implausible than ST. There's no way to do that other than in the context of modern physics. If you want to ignore modern physics, then there's no way to have a coherent argument about it and no point in discussing it.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2224896]Uh, wrong planet... the one Picard was on they got a pretty damn clear scan of...

EDIT - well... that would have been Veridiann III, not Amigossa.[/QUOTE]
For god's sake, you really didn't watch the movie did you? You're just making shit up to try to support your ridiculous position. They sure as hell didn't get a scan of the missile on Veridian III. They couldn't even find Sorin or his launcher on the surface because of "ionic interference in the atmosphere" or some bullshit. Picard only got there by transferring to the klingon ship, which sent him down to the surface. Once he was down, the enterprise didn't know where he was. And on top of that, the missile was sitting [i]cloaked[/i] on its launcher anyway. By the time Sorin launched it, the Enterprise was getting the hell blown out of it by the klingon ship and crashing into the planet. There was absolutely nothing in the movie to indicate that they ever got a scan of it.

I'm done arguing with you. It's bad enough when you're making stupid claims without any evidence to back them up, but since you've clearly moved on to actively [i]lying[/i] about the evidence, I don't see any point in continuing this discussion further.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2224646]*chuckles* omfg st is just so gay... see... that's what I'm talking about. You aren't mature enough to appreciate it...

Now, lets look at the tech we got from Star Trek

[url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech.html[/url]

Cell Phones derived from Communicators

Medical Tech - CAT's, MRI's, and other scanners derived from McCoy's equipment

[COLOR="Red"]x-rays whe're invented long before ST. the rest is just a logical evolution in science. not because of bling bling of mcCoy. "it's live Jim, but not as we know it"[/COLOR]

VOX Tech - "universal" translators able to do near-real-time translation of languages - this is important believe it or not

Teleportation - [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=249#transporter[/url] and [url]http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf[/url]

[COLOR="Red"]hmmmm clearly you didn't see "THE FLY" before. the movie is still in black and white ffs[/COLOR]

We (jokingly) even have an "intergalactic monetary unit", the QUID - [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1232[/url]
[COLOR="Red"]hmm what is his value against the euro (joke)[/COLOR]:D

How about a Tricorder? This device is used on the Mars Rovers - [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=568[/url]

How about Focused Ultrasound Surgery - [url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech-4.html[/url]

Then there's the Trek-Famous "Transparent Aluminum" - well, we have that too! Aluminium OxyNitrate [url]http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=481[/url]

How about a real life PHASER? Sure, it doesn't work QUITE the same, but the idea is there. Instead of being a PHASed Energy Rectification weapon, it's a Personnel Halting And Stimulation Response weapon - non-lethal directed energy weapon - [url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech-2.html[/url]

[COLOR="Red"]yeah right lol what's in a name[/COLOR]

Finally, how about life detectors? - [url]http://www.space.com/technology/top10-star-trek-tech-1.html[/url]

Now, we also got some things like the Sliding Door, Touch Screen Liquid Crystal displays, the Palm Pilot and more... all from STAR TREK.

Tell me... what has Star Wars given us?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"]well the slave leia suit in my wifes wardrobe whoehaa[/COLOR]

half of the things you claim that are because of ST was way before invented in sci-fi books and even on screen in black and white movies. even phasers
look at the old movie 'the day de earth stood still. when the robot fires the guns just overheat and disapear. in the old movie of War of the worlds when de aliens fire humans just vaporise.
Kitt before you call people immature take at good look at pre_Startrek scifi.
maybe read some sci-fi books from the 50's and i mean books not comics or techmanuals. I'm 35 and grew up with ST, SW, BSG, Logun's run, Buck Rogers, Mork and Mindy. make a effort and whatch some old movies. even some black and white.
there's even a movie with Peter Sellers and a doom device. Cobalt-bomb.
even the suit in ST aren't original. Neither in SW but you don't see us claiming these things either do you???

once we are able of Nano-tech they will be claiming it is Borg-tech :D

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2224647]*grins slightly* this from someone claiming his laser focusing crystals can emit a lightsabre beam without melting, or focus a planet cracking superlaser without instantly shattering...[/QUOTE]

it's not only energy that you have to keep in mind but also velocity.
if you open the water it doesn't destroy your sink does it but then again there are machines that cut iron with water. If you trow a bowlingball from your roof it will leave a nice impression in your lawn now throw the same ball from the empire state building it will leave a nice crater in the pavement.

[QUOTE=Nasor;2224934]The point is that WE DONT KNOW if the federation even understands the principles on which the stellar bomb works. You think that just because we understand the principles behind making an antimatter bomb, the federation must logically know how to make a stellar bomb? What?

[COLOR="Red"]Yes, because understanding the theory is 20% of the battle... the next 30% is practicallizing the theory... and the last 50% is sweat, blood, and tears... [/COLOR]

The Klingons didn't have jack shit to do with actually building the bomb, they were just mercenaries that Sorin hired to steal some of the necessary materials for him. Also, [b]as has already been repeatedly explained[/b] we don't know if Sorin invented the bomb. He was from an ancient race with unknown technological abilities. You are trying to argue that just because some ancient alien was able to build it, the federation would be able to build it, which is a retarded argument.

[COLOR="Red"]Actually, we know Soran DID NOT invent the bomb. This is because it is used during Voyager and DS9... which kind of hints that it isn't THAT difficult to do...[/COLOR]

No it isn't, dumbass. If the purpose of the probe is to halt fusion in a star, then how would you even know if it detonated properly on a planet's surface?

[COLOR="Red"] Because you would see the effect of the missile, just not the collapse of the star. The missile did what it had to do because the detonator still fired and the warhead "did it's juju" so to speak.[/COLOR]

Of course it is possible that physics is wrong. But you were trying to argue
that SW was more implausible than ST. There's no way to do that other than in the context of modern physics. If you want to ignore modern physics, then there's no way to have a coherent argument about it and no point in discussing it.[/QUOTE]

There is a point of discussing it, because real-world science is taking it's ques from Star Trek, not Star Wars, down to giving them the namesake. For crying out loud, the Enterprise space shuttle was the testbed... they are building a new Enterprise-Class super-carrier for the USN because of public outcry that they were not going to do so!

[QUOTE=Nasor;2224945]For god's sake, you really didn't watch the movie did you? You're just making shit up to try to support your ridiculous position. They sure as hell didn't get a scan of the missile on Veridian III. They couldn't even find Sorin or his launcher on the surface because of "ionic interference in the atmosphere" or some bullshit. Picard only got there by transferring to the klingon ship, which sent him down to the surface. Once he was down, the enterprise didn't know where he was. And on top of that, the missile was sitting [i]cloaked[/i] on its launcher anyway. By the time Sorin launched it, the Enterprise was getting the hell blown out of it by the klingon ship and crashing into the planet. There was absolutely nothing in the movie to indicate that they ever got a scan of it.

I'm done arguing with you. It's bad enough when you're making stupid claims without any evidence to back them up, but since you've clearly moved on to actively [i]lying[/i] about the evidence, I don't see any point in continuing this discussion further.[/QUOTE]

I do appologize - it HAS been a while since I've seen ST: Generations (probably 2 years minimum) - I looked up the scene just now and you're right - the missile was cloaked until just before launch. I'll have to re-watch the movie, but I remember them scanning something that told them it was a Trilithium Warhead... maybe it was just the reaction of the star? But that even still further supports my argument - if they can tell you what happened by just the effect, they MUST know what would cause said effect... right?

Nasor, no offense - I AM capable of admitting when I'm wrong... just I honestly believe that the Feds can do this... I mean, science is their THING... it's the founding principle of the UFP - Exploration and Science...

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2225062][COLOR="Red"]well the slave leia suit in my wifes wardrobe whoehaa[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Red"] I kind of missed the "The Fly" reference... not entirley sure what you mean with it 0o'[/COLOR]

half of the things you claim that are because of ST was way before invented in sci-fi books and even on screen in black and white movies. even phasers
look at the old movie 'the day de earth stood still. when the robot fires the guns just overheat and disapear. in the old movie of War of the worlds when de aliens fire humans just vaporise.
Kitt before you call people immature take at good look at pre_Startrek scifi.
maybe read some sci-fi books from the 50's and i mean books not comics or techmanuals. I'm 35 and grew up with ST, SW, BSG, Logun's run, Buck Rogers, Mork and Mindy. make a effort and whatch some old movies. even some black and white.
there's even a movie with Peter Sellers and a doom device. Cobalt-bomb.
even the suit in ST aren't original. Neither in SW but you don't see us claiming these things either do you???

once we are able of Nano-tech they will be claiming it is Borg-tech :D[/QUOTE]

I know that most of that tech was around in some form before Star Trek... but the thing was, Trek really spread it to the world. It's a phenominon that had a major impact on not just entertainment, but the way people think, and it's message was both grand and visionary - interracial equality for one thing, and the ability for all people to co-exist. It's a vision that, God willing, I am hoping will be realized one day.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2225066]it's not only energy that you have to keep in mind but also velocity.
if you open the water it doesn't destroy your sink does it but then again there are machines that cut iron with water. If you trow a bowlingball from your roof it will leave a nice impression in your lawn now throw the same ball from the empire state building it will leave a nice crater in the pavement.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but you do realize the kind of energy needed to crack a planet (much less detonate it the way the DS did) is far more than a laser focusing array could manage... even if you split the laser into hundreds of sub-lasers... and here's a question:

The DS used an array of lasers to form the super-laser... how come they came together at a point and then changed direction? If they were lasers, they would simply pass thru each other without some serious gravity-manipulation... and even then, they wouldn't really form a more powerful beam... just a series of impacts at roughly the exact same time 0o'

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2225277]I know that most of that tech was around in some form before Star Trek... but the thing was, Trek really spread it to the world. It's a phenominon that had a major impact on not just entertainment, but the way people think, and it's message was both grand and visionary - interracial equality for one thing, and the ability for all people to co-exist. It's a vision that, God willing, I am hoping will be realized one day.[/QUOTE]

the fly reference was because of the transporters. I don't have to tell the story of the fly, i asume you saw the version with Jeff Golbloom. well that was a remake. the original is still in black and white.

I do agree with you that ST is a boost for science. Hopefully the SW-serie will be to. Anything that boosts our spacepogram is fine by me lol.

as for realizing the message, 80% of our planet is Religius, as long as that's reduced to 0% it doesn't stand a chance. but i'm not going on that road. that something for another threat.:D

the main difference between ST and SW is that SW is cool. ST explains more.
when people look at starwars they don't care about how powerfull something is or how it works. they just sit back, enjoy and wished they could experience it it real life.
Trekkies need explanations on how something is possible.

allthough there's more footage of ST people still find SW way cooler.
I wanna take you to a convention, me in my clonetrooper you in your picard outfit. wanna bet who's gonna get the most attention ? My trooper is (and my wife ain't happy about this) a real chick magnet. and then it's still nothing compared to one of our members darth Vador. this guy get's laid at every convention he attends. Girls get drawn to him like moths to a lamp.

[IMG] [url]http://www.sciforums.com/album.php?albumid=41&pictureid=158[/url] [/IMG]

hell yeah