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[QUOTE=TW Scott;2130621]The shows man. A GCS warp core is a CLass 7 the same one they use in Defiant. It's why the prototype kept almost burning itself out.
The Soveriegn is designed for all the improvements proposed by Geordi asdn othe engineers. We see in Insurrection when the Warp core was jettisoned that the Sovie was still at one third to one half power and a credible threat against one So'na vessel but not two. However in Nemesis we see a completly armed and powered Soveriegn after Shinzon took out the warp drive, but not the core.[/QUOTE]
i do recall they said that Defiant had problem with handling all that power (being a rather small ship after all) but i never recall someone mentioning that Sov's core is of lesser capability or that the ship was build using guidelines from La Forge. Sov's capability to function reasonably well without it's primary power is aperant in Insurection though. still, i would not give it that much credit. i'd guess is about 20-30% in the short run, with performance rapidly droping if you fire full phasers or something. and i definitly don't think they were a match for a single So'Na battleship in that state. true, they disabled Ruafo's ship, but that was a rather small ship, that was vulnerable to even the mission Scout ship (a rather small 10-20m ship).
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Was reading thru the posts I missed while on Christmas vacation. Merry 2009 btw!!
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2129508]
Actually GCS gets it power from very reckless engineering. If you watch through the shows they show how the GCS was built if flagrant violation of several dozen of starfleet engineering protocols. But still it's nothing compared to civillian owned Star Wars vessels.
[QUOTE=antaran_1979;2129557]
4.if GCS is a violation i wonder how the newer designes would be classified. but hey, allthough allthroughout the TNG the GCS was very unstable, during the Dominion War it sufered 0 casulties, which means they re-tuned the baby properly. the Romulans wished they'd done the same with their warbirds.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Outside of an unconventional warp system (modified by Geordi even further), and the sensor design flaw (that allowed the Duras sisters to bring down the big D), I'd love to hear about these dozens of "violations" that TW saw.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;2129508]
Yes, Star base one could actually pose a threat to a nebulan B frigate if the former was mobile.[/QUOTE]
Didn't go back far enough to see where this mobile starbase thing came from...but, there are reasons why long range mobility wouldn't necessarily be designed into a starbase.
A main reason would be that a major starbase function is to defend the planet it may be in orbit of...in lieu of or while awaiting a fleet of starships. Starfleet arms orbiting stations fully (DS9 was armed with 5000 Federation torpedos in the war).
What about the reconfiguration of communications...communication relays would need to be constantly updating themselves...and while each change may be nanoseconds, imagine the comms traffic generated by thousands of relays updating every nanosecond for each station that is moving. Of course I am thinking of them still as stations with administrative/tactical/medical functions, not merely massive weapons juggernauts.
ST ships do not require station heavy weapons in fleet deployment because they are already on board, just not as plentiful in terms of physical number of firing bores/emitters.
In the event relocation is necessary, a station can be tractored, or simply dismantled and rebuilt. Why waste fuel and maintenance costs making a station capable of motion under its own power, when it is hardly ever used?
If I've missed anything jumping in late, I do apologize...
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you're all to much of a starbase and not a ship; i only mentioned DS9 because of his sheer firepower and transport capability's. Hellblade mentioned one of the main tasks. It could be use as a planetary assault or defence platform. A ship that large doesn't necesary have to be in the battle itself. but it can be for example used as a co-ordination ship. the tactical advantages are immense for such a ship.
ok te transport can easily be done by a larger amount of smaller ships but then the co-ordination is so immense and frankly pretty dangerous.
I referred to the ssd for his length. If you look at DS9 who can easely defend hisself against 200+ klingon warbirds image what a full size battleship can do.
I mean u have room for spare warpcores who can kick in when the primary core is disabled like in Nemesis. Image when a ship that size can cloak like the scimitar.
U jump wright in the middle of hostile worlds and unleach enormous firepower. cripeling there huge amount of there fleet before they know what hit them and leave in a few seconds.
try warping a few hunderd Galaxy's.
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[QUOTE=TW Scott;2130619]Okay, the cost of X-wing to Death Star is not as outrageous as that . Remeber X-wings have hyperdrives. So you may be looking at 4 to 6 wings. Each wing being 72 Fighters. Even then with out a capital support ship all the X-wing ends up being is target practice. To put it bluntly it would be like riding out in rowboats armed with M-60's and expecting to sink a Battle Ship.
[COLOR="Red"]Which is why a SINGLE proton torpedo from a SINGLE X-Wing piloted by a wannabe jedi was able to take down the ENTIRE Death Star... right?[/COLOR]
But we are taking something akin to the SSD or Death Star. Acting as mobile support with it's fleet. We're talking the normal fleet hits and is backed up by it's supporting starbase. Instead of the fleet having to split up to mount a defense of the base while mounting it's attack.
[COLOR="Red"]Again, what's your point? We're talking starships the size of the defiant packing the firepower of an SSD... WE DON'T NEED STARBASES.[/COLOR]
Okay so you are landing small craft and expecting it to compete with planet wide equipment? I mean if you landed a whole battleship, perhaps, but no at best you have runabouts and shuttles.
[COLOR="Red"]That's because our Galaxy Class starship can transport a thousand people at once...[/COLOR]
First of all the torpedo in ST are considerably slower thant the X-wing as we have seen time and time again in every ST battle. The things are MUCH slower than light. Second an X-wing as ECM and a pilot who jinks around. Not to mention shields that can mitigate many near misses. Also the only ship that showed poor targeting capability from the get go was the Death Star and it was designed to fight 300 meter plus craft, not 20 meter craft. As for the scene in ROTJ the Executioner was firing on a craft with a known reputation for speed and targteting jammers. The vessel also suffered the loss half of it's point defense senor damage rio
[COLOR="Red"]Nope, sorry, wrong on the speed (X-Wings do NOT fly in battle at Warp Speeds, nice try) It's called a WARP sustainer, not an IMPULSE sustainer... dumbass.[/COLOR]
No, they are just not formed under the odd calculations that ST ses for their tractor beams. They ahave computer targeting assistance and unlike blaster are a WIDE beam.
[COLOR="Red"]But none the less still won't work.[/COLOR]
Actually janeway brought backa few components needed and instructed the personelle on how to instal them. No intact models were brought. Only parts and not even technical knowledge oter than put this irreplaceable doohickey here. And one will note she did bring back each one she thought she might use. It was obvious that she could not replicate it here in anyway.
[COLOR="Red"]And how long do you think it would take Starfleet to reproduce that tech from the working model when back on Earth, hm?[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
More bollocks...
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[QUOTE=TW Scott;2130621]The shows man. A GCS warp core is a CLass 7 the same one they use in Defiant. It's why the prototype kept almost burning itself out.
The Soveriegn is designed for all the improvements proposed by Geordi asdn othe engineers. We see in Insurrection when the Warp core was jettisoned that the Sovie was still at one third to one half power and a credible threat against one So'na vessel but not two. However in Nemesis we see a completly armed and powered Soveriegn after Shinzon took out the warp drive, but not the core.[/QUOTE]
Uhm... the Defiant sues a Class 7... the Galaxy a class 6b... refit in 2365 to allow it to sustain warp 9.9 to for 12 hours... that's all stated plain as day in TNG...
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[QUOTE=TW Scott;2130621]
The Soveriegn is designed for all the improvements proposed by Geordi asdn othe engineers. We see in Insurrection when the Warp core was jettisoned that the Sovie was still at one third to one half power and a credible threat against one So'na vessel but not two. However in Nemesis we see a completly armed and powered Soveriegn after Shinzon took out the warp drive, but not the core.[/QUOTE]
Uhm, excuse me... but when the initial volley hit, the Warp CORE went down...
The blue pulses stopped, cutting power to the warp engines in the nacelles...
The red pulses slowed (in correlation to the SOUND EFFECTS) and, as the view shifts to outside the ship, eventually slow to a stop. Signifying the ceasation of M/AM reaction within the ship...
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[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy4GMzAki-A[/url]
I appologize, the volume is low (crank your speakers) but you can see the upper portion of the core (the dilithium matrix area) go dead and shortly thereafter the pulsing sounds of the M/AM reactor cease as well...
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[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2130831]you're all to much of a starbase and not a ship; i only mentioned DS9 because of his sheer firepower and transport capability's. Hellblade mentioned one of the main tasks. It could be use as a planetary assault or defence platform. A ship that large doesn't necesary have to be in the battle itself. but it can be for example used as a co-ordination ship. the tactical advantages are immense for such a ship.
ok te transport can easily be done by a larger amount of smaller ships but then the co-ordination is so immense and frankly pretty dangerous.
I referred to the ssd for his length. If you look at DS9 who can easely defend hisself against 200+ klingon warbirds image what a full size battleship can do.
I mean u have room for spare warpcores who can kick in when the primary core is disabled like in Nemesis. Image when a ship that size can cloak like the scimitar.
U jump wright in the middle of hostile worlds and unleach enormous firepower. cripeling there huge amount of there fleet before they know what hit them and leave in a few seconds.
try warping a few hunderd Galaxy's.[/QUOTE]
it might work, but the question is allways, will it pay off. it depends on the trade offs. the planetar defences and large scale facilities are not designed to retreat anyways, they are the las resort, but ships aren't. it is a tricky choice to say teh least.
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[QUOTE=antaran_1979;2130634]1.i was actually refering to the cost of an average ISD1&2. it was often mentioned during the discussions here that ISD is an expensive ship that only the Empirial goverment can aford, on of the reasons being that the entire GNP of an average star system is not enough to cover the expences for building one. fightrers of diferent classes are on the other hand widely availabe in multiple numbers. and since FTL as not the issue in a stand up fight it may not even tip the scales. especially hvy fighters like Y-wings, tie-bombers and B-wings (which are said to cary enough firepower so a single squadron to take out a VSD).[/quote]
Okay, a ISD 1 or II is so hard for a normal goverement to run becuase of the crew. With basic marines and atendant fight squadrons that is 38,000+ people. Owning the ship would be nor problem for most worlds, keeping it up and running is another story. Of course inner core worlds could easily afford this as well with a few ships but we are talking worlds where their are billions of sentients paying taxes.
Also a Y-wing is not a heavy fighter it is the predesscor to the X-wing as a basic surperiority fight that doubles as a bumber becuase of the extra gunners chair.
As fo the B-wing, a VSD has one third the armamament of a ISD and less that one quarter the shields. It was almos sesigned as an attack vessel depending on fighters for point defense. Of course 36 B wings can take it out, it's what they are designed for.
[QUOTE]2.but how many standard ships can be built for the price of one SSD? or DS? and more ships can allway cover more ground. as i said it is a mater of doctrine. and the Empire chose a doctrine of terror, rather then effective power deployment. obviously this proved fatal in the long run. they should have sticked with the mobile army and navy of the republic.[/QUOTE]
Actually the first SSD cost much more than laer ones. Oh and republic had no army or navy until palapatine. Each memeber world provided troops as needed. The Empire had a vast army and navy, however it was impossible to maintina secuirity and crush a persistant enemy that was gaining more support with each day. I agree the Tarkin Doctrine failed, but a smart leader taking Palpatines place, say Thrawn would have changed the face of the empire over night.
[QUOTE]3.no i expect for thousands of small craft to deliver my ground troops to the initial landing sites. after these forces establish enough safe ground, disembarking and asembling of heavier eqipement can begin.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that thoose thousand of small craft are actually more vulnerable than the single large ship. Hand pahsers can cripple shuttles, don;t get me started on what anti-fighter artillery would do.
4.truth be told, torpedoes in ST show variance in speed as much as they show variance in yield. some are slower then shuttles some are as fast as 32 frames per second, which is faster then the slugish X-wings which seam even more acceleration capable then thier proton torpedoes.
btw, if a 30m freighters and 6m fighters can jamm something the size of ISDs SSDs and DSs, i would not count much on SW ECM abilities.
Well, perhaps it is the other way around. After all R2-D2 shows better sensor abilities than a tricorder. A fighter would have sensors beyond the normal shuttle craft and be designed to baffle targeting electronics as a safwety measure. Ths why all guns in SW seem to be manned. You
As for torpedoes i will grant sometimes they seem to move quicker, unforunately it is ALWAYS in a smaller battle.
[QUOTE]5.if they are not manual, then they do require some sensor lock. tracking and locking phased out objects (if they even have the ability do descern them as such) might be tricky.[/QUOTE]
The are manually assisted for greater accuracy. Cmputers are good, but will never match a well trained human with experience and targeting aids. Also note that unlinke a torpedo or turbolaser, tracotr beams get to do sweeps. Everything out to range is effected along the tractor beam line simultaneously.
[quote]6.we have no idea how many torps were brought back or how many essential part to manufacture them. nor do we know if SF is still capable or willing of replacating them. what we do know is they do exist and what they are capable of.[/QUOTE]
Actually we know she only had enough componenets to fit ins a small area of her shuttle. We also only know what they do to borg defenses. We never saw them used against anything else.
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in my opinion the reason for the fedaration not having a enormous kickass vessel is not that they couldn't build one like scott claims but just plain en simple that the federation is exploring space ''we come in peace" rather than "U will service us" like the Borg.
that's while a normal cube is so big compared to a Galaxy.
And ofcourse you can use the battleship for scare tactics aswell. I the dominion know the feds have this kickass vessel they would think twice before declaring war on the feds. but you have the risk of the vessel being a magnet for espionage and sabotage.
@attaran; of course it is a tricky choose. it allways is. but think of what a simpel hit and run can accomplice. but you allways have to be aware that it could be a trap they build for the vessel. but then again u would have enough firepower to resist a full fleet.
but one thing i'm not sure of is if you could keep such a large ship unnoticed in warp for the enemy's scanners.
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[QUOTE=TW Scott;2131118]
1.Okay, a ISD 1 or II is so hard for a normal goverement to run becuase of the crew. With basic marines and atendant fight squadrons that is 38,000+ people. Owning the ship would be nor problem for most worlds, keeping it up and running is another story. Of course inner core worlds could easily afford this as well with a few ships but we are talking worlds where their are billions of sentients paying taxes.
2.Also a Y-wing is not a heavy fighter it is the predesscor to the X-wing as a basic surperiority fight that doubles as a bumber becuase of the extra gunners chair.
3.As fo the B-wing, a VSD has one third the armamament of a ISD and less that one quarter the shields. It was almos sesigned as an attack vessel depending on fighters for point defense. Of course 36 B wings can take it out, it's what they are designed for.
4.Actually the first SSD cost much more than laer ones. Oh and republic had no army or navy until palapatine. Each memeber world provided troops as needed. The Empire had a vast army and navy, however it was impossible to maintina secuirity and crush a persistant enemy that was gaining more support with each day. I agree the Tarkin Doctrine failed, but a smart leader taking Palpatines place, say Thrawn would have changed the face of the empire over night.
5.You do realize that thoose thousand of small craft are actually more vulnerable than the single large ship. Hand pahsers can cripple shuttles, don;t get me started on what anti-fighter artillery would do.
6..
Well, perhaps it is the other way around. After all R2-D2 shows better sensor abilities than a tricorder. A fighter would have sensors beyond the normal shuttle craft and be designed to baffle targeting electronics as a safwety measure. Ths why all guns in SW seem to be manned. You
7.As for torpedoes i will grant sometimes they seem to move quicker, unforunately it is ALWAYS in a smaller battle.
8.The are manually assisted for greater accuracy. Cmputers are good, but will never match a well trained human with experience and targeting aids. Also note that unlinke a torpedo or turbolaser, tracotr beams get to do sweeps. Everything out to range is effected along the tractor beam line simultaneously.
9.Actually we know she only had enough componenets to fit ins a small area of her shuttle. We also only know what they do to borg defenses. We never saw them used against anything else.[/QUOTE]
1.afcourse, i don't doubt the industrial capacity of the core worlds. it is legendary. it was this infrastructure that created teh fleet in the first place. still,i doubt anyone both those worlds could really build one.
2.well Y-wing it does carry more torpedoes/missiles and heavier shielding then the X-wing + some ion canons, so it is in essence "heavier".
3. agreed
4. i was refering to the Republic's army creared during the Clone Wars, and yess even after as oposed to the doctrine used at the end of the Palpatine's rule (DSs and SSDs)
5.1 of those smaller craft is more vulnerable, thousands are not. 1 big ship is resistant yes, but allo and easy and more importantly the target of choice. something that you can easily focus on. and if you lose it, there goes your invasion force, plus a huge amount of crew, resources and time to build it. you lose 3/4 of your initial wave of dropships and the game is still on. hack imagine what would happen if those 20-50000 marines use exo-suits and attempt orbital skydiving. 50000 small target, droping in from blue skies. smaller then anything your defences are designed to cope with. ad dropships and you wreak havoc.
6.RD2 is a great utility droid, but he never demonstrated any exeptional sensor abilty.
7. i tryed finding some common ocurance that will brought light to the torpedo speed. so far, no success.
8.it would be interesting to test the "legendary" imperial acuracy on torpedoes :)
9.and seaing how in trek the key component is often the size of a pocket knife there is no telling how many she brought. i mean, it did not apear they were worried about running out of ammo. and hell, they even installed that armour thingy. i don't supose she brought that in her shuttle did she?
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[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2131120]in my opinion the reason for the fedaration not having a enormous kickass vessel is not that they couldn't build one like scott claims but just plain en simple that the federation is exploring space ''we come in peace" rather than "U will service us" like the Borg.
that's while a normal cube is so big compared to a Galaxy.
And ofcourse you can use the battleship for scare tactics aswell. I the dominion know the feds have this kickass vessel they would think twice before declaring war on the feds. but you have the risk of the vessel being a magnet for espionage and sabotage.
@attaran; of course it is a tricky choose. it allways is. but think of what a simpel hit and run can accomplice. but you allways have to be aware that it could be a trap they build for the vessel. but then again u would have enough firepower to resist a full fleet.
but one thing i'm not sure of is if you could keep such a large ship unnoticed in warp for the enemy's scanners.[/QUOTE]
that is true afcourse. and i agree with their policy. especially since their ships are usually quite effective for their size.
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[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;2131120]in my opinion the reason for the fedaration not having a enormous kickass vessel is not that they couldn't build one like scott claims but just plain en simple that the federation is exploring space ''we come in peace" rather than "U will service us" like the Borg.
that's while a normal cube is so big compared to a Galaxy.
And ofcourse you can use the battleship for scare tactics aswell. I the dominion know the feds have this kickass vessel they would think twice before declaring war on the feds. but you have the risk of the vessel being a magnet for espionage and sabotage.
@attaran; of course it is a tricky choose. it allways is. but think of what a simpel hit and run can accomplice. but you allways have to be aware that it could be a trap they build for the vessel. but then again u would have enough firepower to resist a full fleet.
but one thing i'm not sure of is if you could keep such a large ship unnoticed in warp for the enemy's scanners.[/QUOTE]
Remember mate - the Federation doesn't need huge ships to launch kick ass weapons... Photon torps, Quantum Torps, and high-power phasers don't need large platforms to fire from :)
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Here's the point - when it comes to fielding fleets, Star Wars is all about Quantity over Quality... Star Trek is about Quality over Quantity...
Star Wars: Capital Ships: Huge ships, easy to hit, slow, main weapons batteries are only useful against similar sized vessels. Shields can be flown under and taken out.
Star Trek: Capital Ships: Mid Sized, agile, harder to hit ships. Main weapons batteries are just as effective against Fighters as they are Dreadnaughts. Shields are two fold - bubble shield or form fitting, but have no gaps to fly thru. Shield systems are multi-redundant.
Star Wars: Fighter craft are quick, agile, but not terribly powerful in the grand scheme of things. One or two solid hits takes them out of the fight.
Star Trek: Fighter craft are VERY small, very quick, and fire weapons nearly on-par with capital ships thanks to advancements in miniaturization technology. Shield systems are weaker than cap ships, but are able to withstand decent punishment. Very fast.
Star Wars: Sub Capitals: Seemingly pointless... not able to put out enough damage to affect capital ships, not able to track fighters...
Star Trek: Sub Capitals: (combat shuttles, Delta Flyer, Venture class starships, Runabouts): Quick, hit-n-run vessels able to take a considerable beating and still perform well. Most are fit with full size torpedo systems, and slightly smaller class phaser arrays. Fit with full warp cores, these can put out as much power for their size as a capital ship.
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[QUOTE=Kittamaru;2131211]Remember mate - the Federation doesn't need huge ships to launch kick ass weapons... Photon torps, Quantum Torps, and high-power phasers don't need large platforms to fire from :)[/QUOTE]
true but 1 torpedo is about the size of a human right? so smaller vessel are allways limited by the amount of torps they can transport. so allthough the enterprise can carry aprox 200 torps a smaller ship has less space so less torps. the same with phaser-banks.
the main reason for feds not having the need is because they never came across a foo that had enormous amounts of vessels. accept the borg.
Now let us make a little situation. The feds detect a enormous fleet of cubes. i mean like 100 000 cubes ready to invade earth. the enterprise can carry let us say 300 transpheric torps. needing 2 hits to take out a cube. thats 150 cubes. so you need at least 300 ships the enterprise's size to launch a hit n run attack. so you have to co-ordanate 300 ships to warp at the same time focus on a target launch torps and get the hell out. so how long takes it for the enterprise to fire all torps? that's the amount of time you need to be in hostile space. assuming none of the ships target the same cubes wasting all those precious torps.
Now think about what a 10km long battleship can do. only one ship has to warp into hostile space. fire-ing every phaser and hundreds of torps in 1 or 2 seconds.
offcourse you will say that 300 soverings are harder to hit then 1 big massive ship. but because you have so much room, you could get the biggest most powerfull warpcores avalable and then a few lol. you could use a few cores to power enormous amount of phasers. use a few cores for shielding and if necessary u can add spares that kick in when when others are overloading.
and as last resort you can use the main cores to flee ejecting all other cores detonating them as you warp out. that would make a bang :D
and offcourse you can use all the best armour avalable.
conclusion this ship would be able to to hit and run a fleet of 100 000 borgcubes in a few minutes time.
Image what other worlds will say when you have vessel that can destroy a whole fleet of borgcubes. none would dare to stand in the way of the federation. offcourse you will have to be keeping a close eye on every known world so no-one builds them one of there own.
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If 100,000 cubes were incoming to earth... the Future Federation would intervene because there's NO chance for the Present Feds. It wouldn't matter if you launched 1 photon, 100, or 1,000,000 photons... once the Borg have adapted, that's pretty much it.
And the problem with a ship that size (and something that's not addressed at ALL in Star Wars), is that the larger the ship, the more Inertia comes into play.
Say you have a ship 700 meters long (Ent-E) and a ship 7,000 meters long (SSD). The Ent-E will ALWAYS be able to turn faster than the SSD for two simple reasons:
1) THe Ent-E has less apparent mass (weight) to turn. The further from the axis or rotation the ships ends are, the more apparent mass (weight) it will be trying to turn. It's like a giant lever.
2) The Ent-E, having less apparent mass, will have less stress on the hull at higher rotational velocities, meaning it can rotate faster without breaking apart.
Also, again, a ship that big is a one-shot wonder. Once it defeats the first thousand cubes, the other 99,000 will spread out among multiple systems. That ship can't be in a hundred places at once, can it :)
Also, recall that the larger the object you are trying to shield, the more power it takes to shield it at the same strength intensity. While, yes, a super-massive "worldship" could use hundreds of warp cores, it could never generate enough power to keep it's shields at the same level of a smaller ship with a smaller shield. In theory, EM Shielding would work along the same principal as Energy and Motion - a conservative estimate would be for ever size, x, the mass increases, the power to shield it, y, increases by a x^3.
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Damn you guys have been busy while I was on vacation. So many many great points, but although the pole above don't show it I am thinking that Star Trek has the upper hand. The one ship that has not been mentioned is the Drone Warbirds from Enterprise. Able to match the appearance and energy output of any ship:D
And one more thing you all have inspired me to research the different classes of Star Trek ships. Can someone confirm for me if there is infact a ship named the boseman? I use the names for the computers on my network. :D thanks
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Oh and Kitt the Hurcules reference had to do with that terrible show The Legendary Journeys of Hurcules or something like that where Kevin Sorbo was Hurcules. Worst Show Ever. Although I originally had a problem with Scott Bakula as Captain Archer, but I thought he filled the roll quite well after I got past his previous rolls in Quantum Leap and Necessary Roughness. Yes I know I seem to be the only one on this planet that liked Enterprise. Sorry. :D
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I didn't mind the show itself... just... it's not Star Trek because it kills the TOS timeline completely 0o'
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[QUOTE=TW Scott;2130621]The shows man. A GCS warp core is a CLass 7 the same one they use in Defiant. It's why the prototype kept almost burning itself out.
The Soveriegn is designed for all the improvements proposed by Geordi asdn othe engineers. We see in Insurrection when the Warp core was jettisoned that the Sovie was still at one third to one half power and a credible threat against one So'na vessel but not two. However in Nemesis we see a completly armed and powered Soveriegn after Shinzon took out the warp drive, but not the core.[/QUOTE]
The GCS was never mentioned as a Class 7 core.
The core bares no resemblence to the Defiant's Class Core whose is actually the root of the Sovereign Core Design.
